Do Hmong have a God? If so, what's their creation story?

[jbutton]

I heard Yawg Saub is God..  but his name simply means he is a psychic.  (saub knows the future).
Hmong creation story never involve a God.  It simply states that it had always been that way..

[Minnie]

I don't know. All of our books on hmong teachings have been burned by Chinese. So we'll never truly know how we came about.

Hubby did joke that maybe we're one of the missing tribes from Israel
 

[Leprechaun]

I heard Yawg Saub is God..  but his name simply means he is a psychic.  (saub knows the future).
Hmong creation story never involve a God.  It simply states that it had always been that way..

If it's the same religion as Christianity it should be the same as all the bibles.

[jbutton]

If it's the same religion as Christianity it should be the same as all the bibles.

No.  Hmong have their own version.  Some have adopted the Jewish's God and creation story but I always thought their God and their creation story as the Jewish's.

[evil-in-deed]

to me "yawg saub" means the wise man... just how i think when i hear the name...

but i think he is some god like person... just not someone who desires worshiping or even your attention... he just is... and he is always schooling people to become wiser with riddles and the such...

one of the creation stories ive hear about is the one with the brother and sister with the baby with no face and they carve the baby into the many clans we have now a days...

and some other stories about how things are how they are now...

[genuinely]

GVP.

[Reporter]

The Hmong world is a second generation world. Our origin--the origin of the clans and, thereby, the Hmong family--started with Nkauj Iab & Nraug Oo. These were the orphans  who survived the great earthly flood. They were the only survivors of the great flood. So they mated.  Their incest gave birth to a gourd that they later sliced into pieces of flesh.  Those pieces were thrown onto valleys and hills and other places.  As they turned into human forms building fires, cooking breakfast the next day, the clans were named after them.  The piece that got thrown towards the fence became the Vaj (Vang). The pieces that formed a family at the goat house became the Lis (Lee).   And so forth.

That was the time the Hmong clans, and so the Hmong family had ever been formed with our current system.


I say it's a second-generation world because Nkauj Iab & Nraug Oo's existence clearly indicated they had parents and a world that got flooded before their gourd was born--before the clans were formed, and so before the Hmong system came about.  

Remember also the rich at that time built metal containers to shield their families and so they stayed at the bottom.

Those special details indicate a world before the clans were formed.  

Now, as the orphans' canoe floated towards the bottom of the sky, the Gods heard the wobbling sounds of the canoe beating against the corners of the sky. The Gods opened up the gate of Heavens and ordered their soldiers--most likely the lightning--to strike down and poke holes onto the Earth so that the flood would drain out.

That's what happened in the tale.

That, too, indicates there were and are Gods the Hmong have believed in. What God or Gods that was or those were is unclear. So, the Hmong have come to think only of the sky as our God.  "Muaj ntuj nyob saud, muaj av nyob haud" goes the saying. We rely on this prayer towards a divine source of superpower to do punishment to crooks and to give us justice. That's religion.

So, who is the Hmong God? I think it's the sky!

[jbutton]

to me "yawg saub" means the wise man... just how i think when i hear the name...

but i think he is some god like person... just not someone who desires worshiping or even your attention... he just is... and he is always schooling people to become wiser with riddles and the such...

one of the creation stories ive hear about is the one with the brother and sister with the baby with no face and they carve the baby into the many clans we have now a days...

and some other stories about how things are how they are now...

I heard that story.

But there's another story..

In the beginning of the world, there was a couple with a young son.  The land was small (no bigger than a room).  The sun was too close and it was too hot.  The boy make an bow and shoot at the sun and it moved further.  The boy stretch the earth and it became larger.  I don't remember the rest of the story.  I think I heard this story when I was in my early teens.

[Reporter]

Yeah, and the stars were so close, people would reach for them and also poke them down to cook for foods. that's why the stars have moved farther away...damn, how power the Hmong were!

I heard that story.

But there's another story..

In the beginning of the world, there was a couple with a young son.  The land was small (no bigger than a room).  The sun was too close and it was too hot.  The boy make an bow and shoot at the sun and it moved further.  The boy stretch the earth and it became larger.  I don't remember the rest of the story.  I think I heard this story when I was in my early teens.

[slude]

I heard Yawg Saub is God..  but his name simply means he is a psychic.  (saub knows the future).
Hmong creation story never involve a God.  It simply states that it had always been that way..

the txiv xaiv creation story involves a couple, yawg saub and pog saub. i'll explain when i have time.

[jbutton]

Thanks for all your input.  It's interesting that we have our own creation stories.  Let's keep them alive.  I would hate to see when a white person ask a Hmong person, tell me your creation story.. and he starts with Adam and Eve. 

[tmz3]

GVP.

   

[jbutton]

My sense of the definition of ntuj is sky or the spirit of the sky.  Rocks, trees, mountains all have spirits.  If Hmong mean yawg saub, they would have said so. 

[Reporter]

OK. What better word do you have for the reference to the sky?  What's the English translation of the Hmong word ntuj?

Nkauj Muam Nraug Nus just means they are siblings. Nkauj Iab and Nraug Oo were those siblings' names.lol...Ta lking about knowing Hmong language and culture.

Yawm Saub? Remember Nraug Ntsuag? Where did he find Saub or Yawm Saub when he was in need? At the bamboo bush on the edge of the farm.

I think that's a poor translation of the Hmong belief system.

In English, heaven is both a place where God lives, and where other stars and galaxies roam "the heavens".

I just think you gotta put a little more thought into it because if you're saying the sky is the Hmong people's god just because they use the word "ntuj" often. Ntuj means more than sky, it also means "the above, the heavens". Something most human cultures have in common is that most of their gods are from "the above, the heavens". For the Greeks it was Mount Olympus where Zeus lived in the Clouds. For the Jews it was the Elohim which translates into "those from above". For the Hmong the credit is given to Yawm Saub, who is from the above, the heavens aka ntuj.

btw it's Nkauj Muam and Nraug Nus. Nkauj Ia thiab Nraug Oo are known to be the first two humans. The former two were the survivors fo the flood.

[tmz3]

yawm saub = prophet, soothsayer, wiseman

huab tais ntuj/vaj tswv ntuj = god

lub ntuj = also refers to god/ higher force