Author Topic: Fresno Hmong International New Year drama  (Read 7047 times)

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Offline F-16

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Re: Fresno Hmong International New Year drama
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2010, 02:44:42 AM »
Gappie,

My take on this is opposite of yours and I'm in no association with either.  12 years ago HINY and UHI(18 xeem) signed a contract with city, state officials.  The agreement was for HINY to pay off the debts and host the event for 10 years then transfer authority back to UHI.  The last 2 years UHI have asked repeatedly with HINY to work together but HINY turned on deaf ears.  A month ago HINY's lawyer filed a lawsuit against UHI.  On July 18th General Vang Pao came in for a conference to settle the problem.  He sided with HINY and was going to replaced UHI's president with his own outsider guy!  UHI said they couldn't really resolve the issue due to a lawsuit has been filed already.  UHI still holds the old contract signed 12 years ago and HINY don't!  These are facts.  Let the people decide what's best for the new year. 

The last 10 years I've repeately said I haven't seen any improvements except making a whole bunch of monies for the peeps who hosted them.
 We live in the most civilize nation but our international new years is still behind like 1980s.  The new years for the last 12 years has been control by one group who had strong ties to GVP.  They recruited idiots to sit on their board of directors who either sided with their corrupted doings, ideas.  I thought we're living in a democracy society but HINY has been practicing dictatorship like the old days at Long Cheng.  My vote would be changes.  Elect younger experienced, educated people who would match 21st century Hmong.  Make us better than most of the world.  When I went to Laos, Thailand for a few new years ago their events was more organized than ours!!! 



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Offline GaPpiE

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Re: Fresno Hmong International New Year drama
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2010, 03:33:47 AM »
Gappie,

My take on this is opposite of yours and I'm in no association with either.  12 years ago HINY and UHI(18 xeem) signed a contract with city, state officials.  The agreement was for HINY to pay off the debts and host the event for 10 years then transfer authority back to UHI.  The last 2 years UHI have asked repeatedly with HINY to work together but HINY turned on deaf ears.  A month ago HINY's lawyer filed a lawsuit against UHI.  On July 18th General Vang Pao came in for a conference to settle the problem.  He sided with HINY and was going to replaced UHI's president with his own outsider guy!  UHI said they couldn't really resolve the issue due to a lawsuit has been filed already.  UHI still holds the old contract signed 12 years ago and HINY don't!  These are facts.  Let the people decide what's best for the new year. 

The last 10 years I've repeately said I haven't seen any improvements except making a whole bunch of monies for the peeps who hosted them.
 We live in the most civilize nation but our international new years is still behind like 1980s.  The new years for the last 12 years has been control by one group who had strong ties to GVP.  They recruited idiots to sit on their board of directors who either sided with their corrupted doings, ideas.  I thought we're living in a democracy society but HINY has been practicing dictatorship like the old days at Long Cheng.  My vote would be changes.  Elect younger experienced, educated people who would match 21st century Hmong.  Make us better than most of the world.  When I went to Laos, Thailand for a few new years ago their events was more organized than ours!!! 

Wrong, wrong and wrong. What you are saying here is HEARSAY and there is no truth to your words. There is NO lawsuit filed, and UHI's current president is self elect. Don't believe me? go ask the LEE clan if they've voted to elect him. There is NO organization that will form under 501c3 standards that will only exist for an "X" amount of years. Hence, one entity cannot and never can over take that of another. And NO, GVP did not say he was going to replace UHI's president with an outsider guy. What he did say on the 17th, the day before was... he expects the new president of UHI, whomever it may be to have deep knowledge of the Hmong culture and traditions, this is what UHI stands for and this is his mission for UHI as the founder. He also noted that, because UHI has not been a stable entity for the past few years, even so getting everyone within the Hmong community in trouble including himself that we reserves the right to appoint a notable president that can handle the mission of UHI. But whatever the case may be, there should be no rush to choose a president on the spot and to defer the election for a day or two. Based on this judgement, ... a few people within UHI got mad that GVP did not side with them and went ahead to appoint their own president that evening. However, do note that not all members of the newly appointed clan representative s were present nor willing to vote for this "new" president. So technically, UHI's current president is not valid. On the 18th, they (UHI) called out HINY to a meeting using GVP's name to request the meeting only to no show. This was a cowardly act and very disrespectful to all the community leaders of which attended. 
UHI and HINY are seperate organizations. You have different tax id's, you cannot do that. Why would you want to have two organizations swamped together? Also, you say the last two years UHI have asked to work with HINY...?? Go take a good look at all the people in UHI right now and tell me they were not working at the previous HINY celebration. They were all there working with HINY with exception to the big man from southern california. Trust me, we all know eachother. UHI asked for money from HINY and HINY rejected to help them. This is the truth and because of this UHI wants to run the new years so they can profit. Tough luck.
However, I do not wish to get deep into this issue as PH is not the place for such.
These are the TRUE facts. If you are in NO association with either organization then you really have no grounds as to where you are getting your information from other than hearsay. There does NOT exist any contract that states a transfer of the hmong new year event after 10 years back and forth to entities. And if you insist there is one, it'd be in the hands of lawyers. I know this contract, do you? This is utterly a failed assumption. By the way, who says only old folks work and run the Hmong new years? There are many smart, superb, talented and educated young individuals who work day in and day out to make sure HINY is a reputable organization and that they put on the absolute best show they can each year. All you have to do is go there. And yes, let the people decide what's best for the new years.
Here's one thought... why don't UHI go try to run all the other new years in the nation as well. And yes, I've seen Laos and Thailand's new years celebrations and they are great, but they have the financial backings of a country. The Hmong doesn't but we do pretty good if I do say so myself.
I just don't like people who to preach misleading information that is all.



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Offline jetter

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Re: Fresno Hmong International New Year drama
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2010, 10:48:14 AM »
Gappie,

I am in the middle here on this situation.  My questions is where does all the money go?  I think the food vendors pay like $3000 per spot if they do not work there in the organization and they are a lot of vendors.  That money alone; from all the vendors plus the amount of tickets sold for attendance should cover the expenses shouldn't it?  $3,000 x 20 food vendors alone is already $60,000 and that's just the food vendors.  There are countless other flee-market type vendors.  With that and the collection of the money at the door for adults; that is in the tens of thousands per-day, that's a lot of money. 

I think most of us are skeptical because the organization keeps saying they make no money but will not disclose how much money was made and where that money went or at least generalize it.



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Offline tsoomhmoob

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Re: Fresno Hmong International New Year drama
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2010, 11:08:29 AM »
GaPpiE and F-16,

Thank you for sharing such insightful information.  I would like to throw in what I know as well so we all can get a clear picture of the situation.  I will not go into lengthy detail but just the basic fact.
1.  As the result of multiple new years a decade ago, Col. Youa True Vang stepped in, put his assets on the line as collateral, and took the lead to run the new year to pay off the debts.  The decision was once the debts are paid off then they were going to discuss for the best solution to maintain the new year.
2.  The new year debts were fully paid off by 2006.  For the NY 2006-07, they voted Col. Youa True out.  I remember Col. Youa True was very disappointed and upset that on Dec. 26, 2006 he went on stage during the opening, in front of the distinguish guests, and tried to make his point but was prompted by General Vang Pao by "that's enough".  Col. Youa True's vision was to hand over the new year to the 18 Clan organization who was to represent the Hmong people and provide the new year for it's people.  Unfortunately, they voted him out with the endorsement of General Vang Pao so Col. Youa True were left with disappointment .  Sadly, the newly elected 18 Clan Council president, Lo Thao, did not serve for the best interest of the organization as he took it into a political approach and got in trouble.  As a failure of the 18 clan’s leadership, the transfer of handler of the new year had been put on hold.  For fact though, 18 clan did asked HINY for contribution to their organization so they would have a budget to operate.  Finally, it came down to the point that General Vang Pao had also been endorsing and informing community leaders that he was going to restructure the 18 clan organization to have true elected representative s and resourceful individuals to run the organization, and will transfer the new year host to 18 clan so it will truly resemble and representing the Hmong people.
3.  As far as the meeting on July 17th goes, I do not know if neither of you were there unless if GaPpiE could validate that he was there but I was there.  That meeting was to bring the elected clan representative s together to elect the new president of 18 clan council.  General Vang Pao was there along with two Supreme Council for the 18 clan organization – Col. Ly TouPao and Mr. Wangshur Vang (aka Dr. Vang Shur).  Again, the purpose of the meeting was to elect a new president.  For certain, not all 18 clan representative s attended but there were enough reps there to meet the quorum.  As they went into discussion about electing the new president, disagreement arose between General Vang Pao and the 18 clan.  General Vang Pao wanted to hand pick a president to sit in and lead the 18 clan council with all the 18 clan elected representative under his hand pick president.  The 18 clan council and its presiding supreme councils disagreed, and argued that the president should be among the 18 elected clan reps who they would nominate among themselves then run an election to elect the president.  As tension grew they ended the meeting without any result.  Following, the two supreme council and the present 18 clan representative s got together again and elected their own president.  Under the governing rule of the 18 clan bylaw, as long as there is a quorum and with supreme council’s present, they can elect the new officers – which they did.
4.  Now, with the new body of 18 clan, they wanted HINY to hand over the new year event so they could serve and represent the Hmong people but there appear no compliance from anyone.  Therefore, UHI are going to host its own new year to compete with HINY and let the Hmong community decided which one they will attend.  HISTORY DOES REPEAT ITSELF FOR SURE. 

CONCLUSION: 

HINY - From a concern Hmong-American citizen’s standpoint, leaders of HINY has not been doing a good job of the new year.  It’s no longer a “Hmong New Year Celebration” but more like a “Annual Hmong Flea Market celebration”.  I know for a fact that every year the profit gain from this event is over $300,000.00.  I have not seen a single penny gone toward scholarship, community contributions nor anything that benefit the Hmong-American.  From what I’ve observed, following each new year the president, director and their buddies would make at least 3-5 trips to Laos, Thailand and China, claiming it’s all “business purposes”. 

UHI – It’s the most appropriate way to let an organization who represent the Hmong to host the new year for the Hmong people.  I support such idea.  I do understand that UHI needs to have a budget to operate also.  My main concern is will these people live up to the name of the Hmong people and truly serve the Hmong people’s interest rather than their own.  I’ve seen all the time that when there are no $$$ people will speak from the bottom of their heart.  As soon as $$$ are in the picture, these leaders’ visions suddenly disappeared and we all repeated our ugly history again.

GVP – I hold nothing against GVP.  I respect him for his leadership, courage and vision.  What I am disappointed to see is he still trying to live up to his pride too much not realizing that he’s old and should only serve as an umbrella for the Hmong people.  He has great vision for the Hmong people.  His speeches are uplifting and moving but when it comes down to business, especially when it involves $$$, he tends to wanted people who are under his control to take charge.  Look at some of the past record – Lao Family of Santa Ana, Vang Pao Foundation, Lao Veterans of America v SGU, and now, HINY v UHI.  A lot of Hmong sacrificed their time, their resources, family and effort to rally to free him.  Three months later, he endorsed his son Cha Vang and leveraged the community for a lot of $$$ to pocket Cha by declaring that he would return to Laos – turned out a failure proposal plan.

MY TAKE – $$$ seems to be the only thing that all these people are so desperate into the new year in Fresno.  I guess this is also true to most of the major Hmong new years in America.

In the past 8 years I’ve repeatedly told and encouraged GVP and other Hmong leaders to reach out to younger Hmong-Americans who have the education, dedication, resources, and ability to operate, maintain and secure a successful future for the Hmong-American community.  I’ve told them I know a lot of young talented Hmong out there who are dedicated and passionate to help make a difference for the betterment of our community but they just need to be reached.  These leaders turned a deaf ear on my recommendation s.  In closing, unless GVP and these self prayers are willing to let go of their hats to realized this is the 21th century that leadership needs to be pass on, and allow a new generation of true leadership to run and provide such Hmong events of our people, I will just stick to my everyday life, worry only about my job, my family, my friends and my caring beloved Hmong brothers and sisters, and will not waste time dealing with this dictated leadership and corruption that has been dividing our Hmong people in the past 35 years since we were kicked out of Laos.

Thank you for taking the time to read.  I could have just ignore this threat but decided that there are true dedicated Hmong individuals out there who would like to know the fact and would want to make a difference to better our Hmong-American lives too. 



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Offline andro

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Re: Fresno Hmong International New Year drama
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2010, 11:23:44 AM »
The supreme council?  Such big words.  I will put in feedbacks later when I'm on my laptop.



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Offline GaPpiE

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Re: Fresno Hmong International New Year drama
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2010, 12:04:04 PM »
Just for the record there were 5 Supreme council memebers there with GVP on the 17th at the UHI election. Before you get into the whole story of UHI running a new year, you should first and for most to ask to see why is it that  UHI's president is even in the Lee clan seat to begin with. He is NOT serving in the seat due to a fair election from his clan. Yet, he preaches fair election. That's a contradiction if there ever was one. That in itself is a disqualificati on, a red flag. He was self appointed by two members of the supreme council. I know it, we all know it but I do not wish to disclose any names.
About Col. Youa True, a person can only serve as president of an organization for so long via bylaws. And I do beg to differ from your opinion in that he was asked to resign on a sour note. Today, even through all of this drama he is one who stands firmly behind HINY.
The members currently in UHI are some of the same persons who served under Lo Thao. Can you honestly tell the Hmong public that UHI had absolutely no idea what their president was doing during his tenure that go everyone into trouble? Not only GVP, but the Hmong people can see trouble in the future with the same individuals in power. Now if you want to talk about bylaws, this is ceratainly something worth noting.
And you say... HINY has not been doing a good job of the new year? in comparison to what? HINY's celebration is far more extravagant than any other Hmong new year's celebration in the nation. Every year there is something different, but if you choose not to notice then you are one amongst those who have no interests to do so. Do you honestly think that having a new group that is so scattered coming in with no experience (minus Vang Shur) on running a well over 200+ volunteer based showcase is going to be much better nor successful for that matter? I think not. 
Back to the issue about money spent overseas on trips. I am going to just say that if people go on vacation to destinations of their choice, we are not limited to control where they can and cannot go. However, if it is for business purposes it is within scope. I'm not even going to get into the financial portion because if you really want to know you can go to the HINY office to ask.
Btw, HINY is not desperate to do the new years in Fresno. The volunteers are not desperate to volunteer. HINY was created for a reason, to soley focus on the new year's celebration and nothing else.



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Offline Solemn Wind

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Re: Fresno Hmong International New Year drama
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2010, 12:18:42 PM »
Interesting viewpoints...I am pretty much clueless about those Hmong new year operation. I'd rather be on the local county fair committee and served the overall general publc. Is Gappie like one of HINY's representative? If he is he's not making a very good case for HINY.



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Offline jetter

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Re: Fresno Hmong International New Year drama
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2010, 12:31:12 PM »
gappie,

Since you work for the organization and support it; some of us cannot just walk over to the place and ask the financial questions, why don't you post it so that the rest of us who are clueless could see.  To me, if you are supporting that organization, you should be happy to post that information instead of using the old card, "Head over there and ask.".

That will surely help.



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Offline F-16

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Re: Fresno Hmong International New Year drama
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2010, 12:37:07 PM »
Tsoomhmoob,

Well acurate inside information.  We live in a democracy world so don't give up.  Stand up and fight for what's right.
Only 18 clan can make the new year fair in my view.  


Gappie -  The current staffs under Txam Charlie Vang may be educated back lack entertainment, planning experiences.  My question to you is why Charlie Vang still the Executive Director after 12 years?  This guy never held a full time job ever in the general community.  One ED should only be around for a term in my view.  Besides, I remembered in the late 1980s when the International New Year was so popular world wide with the sport event, pageant at the 10,000 plus Selland Arena, education conference featured many BA, MA, PHD from all over the world.  Nowadays, these are all gone.  The pageant is hosted in a very small unprofessional building, stage with a whole bunch of under age girls mainly just seeking the money and fame instead of pride.  Sport event is nonexistence.  I guess it's just really a business where you save a lot of money for nonsense stuff eh?


« Last Edit: August 09, 2010, 12:41:34 PM by F-16 »

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Offline andro

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Re: Fresno Hmong International New Year drama
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2010, 12:47:57 PM »
As bad as the current executive director at HINY might be, I'm sure him and his staff are more prepared and qualify to run the new year compared to UHI (18 clans).  I've seen and met some of those reps and they are not prepared to organize and host the new year. 

Believe it or not, it costs a lot of money to organize and host a new year.  Many people don't believe, it but I can say that for a small town like Sac, you are looking at 30-40k just for those four days for security ALONE.  And if you have little gangsters running around and causing havoc where special gang task forces and resources are called in, you can expect to get a bill for that, too. 

I also think that it is time for a new executive director to take over at HINY.  New people, new blood, new ideas.  And also, that leaves less room for errors and corruption.  I have also seen that many of the current leaders at HINY are getting too comfortable in their positions, which is not good.  I'm not for their overthrow, but I am for change--peacefully though. 



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Offline Dok_Champa

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Re: Fresno Hmong International New Year drama
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2010, 01:22:41 PM »
I'm just curious, has HINY ever been transparent w/ the hmong community about their budget/expenditures/revenue from running the hmong new year..

Until that happens, we never know where the $$ goes...so the public has the right to be upset.




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Offline tsoomhmoob

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Re: Fresno Hmong International New Year drama
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2010, 01:26:33 PM »
Andro, I agreed with you that if I have to chose the people to run the ny between HINY and UHI I would rather stick to HINY simply because they got the experience and structure in place.

For your second paragraph, I've been involved in a lot of community events so I will speak from my experience.  Using Sac NY as an example - I had work with Sac city and county before.  If the event is truly for the community I am 100% the city and county will collaborate and provide their men to provide security at a low cost for the event.  Of course, the NY committee do have to hire a private security firm to help them along with city and county law enforcement present.  If this is truly a community event.  Unfortunately, because the event is all PROFIT for the best interest of the organizer and not the community, chances are they will have to deal with the financial responsibiliti es involved for a private event.




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Offline Qau

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Re: Fresno Hmong International New Year drama
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2010, 01:40:59 PM »
Frankly, I just don't understand all the BS posted.
If one has problems with these organizations then don't support them. Take your family to Florida and spend $70 a person on Disney tickets rather than on $3 a person at Hmong new year.  Don't buy movies and burn them off family suckers who actually paid $$ for them.

The problem with many of you is you are genetically ingrained and engineered to attend these so call new years lasting from September through December.



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Offline GaPpiE

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Re: Fresno Hmong International New Year drama
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2010, 01:42:12 PM »
Everyone has their opinion. Great.
No need to go back and forth. I'm not here to change anyone's mind. I just replied to an inquiry.
Some people have personal agendas here and because of this I will rest my take on this thread.
Just sit back and watch things unfold.
Thank you.



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Offline canibus_man

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Re: Fresno Hmong International New Year drama
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2010, 01:47:39 PM »
So there might be two new years in Fresno this year, eh?  I remember during the 97-98 new year, there were three!  One at the Kmart parking lot, one at the fairground, and one at Sunnyside. 

Yeah, history does repeat itself.   8)

word!!



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