situational analysis..

[YAX]

You work in a small 2 story building, on your floor, there are two restrooms, one for men and one for women, but they're the small restrooms with one toilet and one sink.  The doors to the restrooms can be locked for privacy.  This particular morning, you walk to the men's room, it was locked from the inside.  After knocking for some time, you decided to open the door with your master key and switched on the lights to reveal the janitor lying face down on the floor infront of the toilet.  It appears he fell forward while sitting on the toilet.  his pants were down around his ankles and his knees bent.  There was poop and urine in the toilet.  There were no injuries on is body that you could see.  He was supposed to be cleaning the rooms the night before.  It looked like he could've had a stroke or heart attack while sitting on the toilet.  He's a nice guy, seems very normal and you can't think of anyone at the office who would do him any harm.  Just based on this, can you conclude: a. Foul Play or b. natural death?

[trepidpoda]

You work in a small 2 story building, on your floor, there are two restrooms, one for men and one for women, but they're the small restrooms with one toilet and one sink.  The doors to the restrooms can be locked for privacy.  This particular morning, you walk to the men's room, it was locked from the inside.  After knocking for some time, you decided to open the door with your master key and switched on the lights to reveal the janitor lying face down on the floor infront of the toilet.  It appears he fell forward while sitting on the toilet.  his pants were down around his ankles and his knees bent.  There was poop and urine in the toilet.  There were no injuries on is body that you could see.  He was supposed to be cleaning the rooms the night before.  It looked like he could've had a stroke or heart attack while sitting on the toilet.  He's a nice guy, seems very normal and you can't think of anyone at the office who would do him any harm.  Just based on this, can you conclude: a. Foul Play or b. natural death?

You can't conclude either.  It could be foul play staged as a natural death; blunt trauma can be internal and not visible, force trauma can also cause urination and defecation, door can be locked from the outside and closed.  it could be natural death, but only autopsy can conclude if it was indeed a heart attack or stroke (these are things you can't determine without the proper tests).  Or, it can be c.) The guy is not dead, but fell asleep taking a dump face down on the floor. 

[YAX]

What he said, are the doors clearly marked as men or women's restroom? Also, the lighting. Are the lights sensored with the on/off switch or just plain ol regular on and off switch. Reasoning is that you can take a dump without lights, but why try. Inhalents? Mold?

Duh! if you have to switch them on, would that be sensored lights?   

[YAX]

Like i said some sensored lights have a switch to them....

but they would've came on when you went into the room.  you wouldn't have to switch them on yourself.   

[YAX]

besides.  maybe this senerio was written before lights had sensors. 

[YAX]

so you'd have to explain how it came to be that he was taking a chit in the dark.  

[trepidpoda]

Ok, I read the case again.  I am convinced it was a heart attack.  Here is the medical reason; sitting down/squatting, closes veins and puts pressure on the venous return and decrease blood returning to the heart.  Straining/taking a dump also puts increase intrathoracic pressure via a close glottis know as the Valsalva maneuver, decreases venous return to the heart as well.  Both positions in combination cause a big decrease of blood into the heart, and the heart is not pumping enough blood through the coronary arteries to supply itself, which can provoke a heart attack in people with heart disease/atherosclerosis plaque.

[YAX]

Now I know why you're a lawyer.  LOL.  

Look.  My client couldn't have done it.  he wasn't sitting in the dark...

[trepidpoda]

You work in a small 2 story building, on your floor, there are two restrooms, one for men and one for women, but they're the small restrooms with one toilet and one sink.  The doors to the restrooms can be locked for privacy.  This particular morning, you walk to the men's room, it was locked from the inside.  After knocking for some time, you decided to open the door with your master key and switched on the lights to reveal the janitor lying face down on the floor infront of the toilet.  It appears he fell forward while sitting on the toilet.  his pants were down around his ankles and his knees bent.  There was poop and urine in the toilet.  There were no injuries on is body that you could see.  He was supposed to be cleaning the rooms the night before.  It looked like he could've had a stroke or heart attack while sitting on the toilet.  He's a nice guy, seems very normal and you can't think of anyone at the office who would do him any harm.  Just based on this, can you conclude: a. Foul Play or b. natural death?

Ok.....I changed my mind after reading it again.....it was foul play.  He was cleanig the night before, and this morning you found him lying down on the floor in front of the toilet, perhaps dead.....the door was locked = is the key in answering this riddle.  Assuming the building was secure and the janitor was there to clean up, if he had taken a dump in the restroom, there would be no need to lock the door to the restroom.  He was alone in the building, or so he thought.  

Case closed!!

[YAX]

Ok.....I changed my mind after reading it again.....it was foul play.  He was cleanig the night before, and this morning you found him lying down on the floor in front of the toilet, perhaps dead.....the door was locked = is the key in answering this riddle.  Assuming the building was secure and the janitor was there to clean up, if he had taken a dump in the restroom, there would be no need to lock the door to the restroom.  He was alone in the building, or so he thought.  

Case closed!!

Dang. you good    but that's only part of it.  The other part was that no one takes a dump in the dark.  He wouldn't be able to find the toilet.

[trepidpoda]

Dang. you good    but that's only part of it.  The other part was that no one takes a dump in the dark.  He wouldn't be able to find the toilet.

Thanks. I think I missed that part.

[Mr. Complicated]

ya beat me to it...but i also missed the "lights were off on the first read".

[dreamlogic]

Foul play.


My reasons:

1. Lights were off.  Kinda strange, but not the most obvious.

2. If it was natural death, due to the way he fell, it can only mean he died in a circumstance that produce a death which didn't involve too much struggle it seems.  Even so, a man who already has passed stool (stool was in the toilet and urine), should at least have left stains on the seat, assuming he did die from natural cause such as stroke or heart attack, or most likely bruises on his face/head or where he hit the ground.  

Since it isn't the case where stool stains and bruises are seen, but since you mentioned---

" This particular morning..."

This can only imply that the person is female.  One question then immediately springs up.  Why did she decide to use the men's room, "this particular morning"?

The above fact along with the fact that she has a key, can only imply foul play.