Austen's Emma Discussions

[Reporter]

I'm shocked because it sounded like you're a Jane Austen fan (?), but you haven't any of her other work, especially one of her better ones.   I didn't majored in english lit or anything like that. I just like to read A LOT. It's an enjoyable hobby. 

I'm her fan.

Anyway, great hobby you have there. We'll certainly take you up on other authors and books, too. One of these days, we will turn to books on the Hmong. There are a few out there already but they tend to be memoirs and documentaries rather than novels.

[go-go]

Haven't read much on Hmongs or books by Hmongs. Haven't even read the one by that Yang girl.  I've only read the Dust of Life, Tangled Threads and The Spirit Catches You and You Fall Down. Pathetic, I know.  But I'm moving away from English authors and all that English history stuff to Chinese.  Currently, the author I'm reading is Lisa See. I've read Peony In Love, Snow Flower and the Secret Fan and Shanghai Girls.  Excellent, excellent books!

[Reporter]

Haven't read much on Hmongs or books by Hmongs. Haven't even read the one by that Yang girl.  I've only read the Dust of Life, Tangled Threads and The Spirit Catches You and You Fall Down. Pathetic, I know.  But I'm moving away from English authors and all that English history stuff to Chinese.  Currently, the author I'm reading is Lisa See. I've read Peony In Love, Snow Flower and the Secret Fan and Shanghai Girls.  Excellent, excellent books!

We won't get to them for a long, long time.

Hey, we are onto chapter 2 of Emma next. Postings on it due on the 15th.

So, tell me, what do you find to be some of the cultural things in Emma as indicated on chapter 1? Example, people ride horses, carts, and work as governesses. What other careers are there? What are their manners like towards the high class, the low class? Etc.

[go-go]

So, tell me, what do you find to be some of the cultural things in Emma as indicated on chapter 1? Example, people ride horses, carts, and work as governesses. What other careers are there? What are their manners like towards the high class, the low class? Etc.

uhhh...who cares? let's talk about the people...like Emma and Mr. Knightly! how come you're not really "discussing" anything except asking questions? I'm not being graded, am I? 

[Reporter]

uhhh...who cares? let's talk about the people...like Emma and Mr. Knightly! how come you're not really "discussing" anything except asking questions? I'm not being graded, am I?  

Haha...ok. Sure. Since we are on the novel, let's deal with the just the characters of the novel.

What's very interesting is Emma's relationship with Mr. Knightley: Emma is 21. Mr. Knightley is 37 or 38.  Emma's sister is married to Mr. Knightley's younger brother.  This makes Mr. Knightley Emma's brother-in-law, doesn't it?  Isn't that why Emma listens to him when he speaks his mind against hers? Or is there something else that makes Emma so agreeable to him?

Later on, it will be more interesting as we compare their things with Hmong things. The age thing is Hmong enough. But other things?

Oh, no one is being graded on here. Since I monitor the discussions, I must ask more questions to pace us through. You should feel free to ask questions, too, and then we all can answer them to the extent we can. There are no right or wrong answers.

Can't wait for Chapter 2's discussions to come up in a few days!

[Reporter]

This is a great suggestion.... ...

[go-go]

What's very interesting is Emma's relationship with Mr. Knightley: Emma is 21. Mr. Knightley is 37 or 38.  Emma's sister is married to Mr. Knightley's younger brother.  This makes Mr. Knightley Emma's brother-in-law, doesn't it?  Isn't that why Emma listens to him when he speaks his mind against hers? Or is there something else that makes Emma so agreeable to him?

I don't know. The book doesn't exactly tell us "why" so we can only speculate on the reasons...your guess is as good as mine!  Maybe they like exchanging clever wits with each other, maybe that cleverness makes them both see other as "equals", so naturally it's easier and more convenient for them to fall in love with each other. Plus, Mr. Knightley is older and wiser and he was just bidding his time for Emma to come around to realize that he loves her, and that she loves him in return.  

[Reporter]

I don't know. The book doesn't exactly tell us "why" so we can only speculate on the reasons...your guess is as good as mine!  Maybe they like exchanging clever wits with each other, maybe that cleverness makes them both see other as "equals", so naturally it's easier and more convenient for them to fall in love with each other. Plus, Mr. Knightley is older and wiser and he was just bidding his time for Emma to come around to realize that he loves her, and that she loves him in return. 

But he doesn't seem jealous at all of her relationships with other guys, is he?  He does not seem to care. That's what it looks like to me.

I agree that it's more of his age and wisdom in life that she obeys him than his being related to her. Emma seems to respect people who can pick on her faults, isn't that right? Seems so.

[Reporter]

One last thing that I would like to add prior to proceeding with chapter two. Although I am somewhat critical of Emma in terms of how  she conduct herself at the same time I admire her lack of social decorum and her sprit especially

To be continue.....

How is her lack social decorum an interesting thing? How is it special? What do you like about that aspect of her?

Emma is interesting. Or else there wouldn't have been a book about her. That's for sure.

[Reporter]

Chapter 2 starts today.

What do we see in this chapter?

I see more of Mr. Weston's backgrounds. Educated. Joined the military in his county. Became captain. Ms. Churchill fell in love with him and married him. But the marriage was terrible.  Jane Austen calls this an "unsuitable connection."  But she died after 3 years due to some illness. Of course, they had Frank. But then Frank went on to live with the granny Churchills--a wealthy family. 

Frank has never visited his father. Visits have happened only the other way around. Mr. Weston has gone to London for visits. But Frank has never come to Highbury or Randalls. However, what's interesting is that Frank actually wrote to the new Mrs. Weston some "handsome" letters. And people have talked about them around town. I find this odd and interesting.

What do you see in this chapter? Please feel free to say more about chapter 1, too, if there are more comments.

[Reporter]

One last thing that I would like to add prior to proceeding with chapter two. Although I am somewhat critical of Emma in terms of how  she conduct herself at the same time I admire her lack of social decorum and her sprit. The way Emma behaves is a contrast to the 'ideal' female during her time, which I believe her sister epitomizes. Emma is opininated, insensitive which I find annoying yet refreshing, especially when the story is set in the period where there were limited opportunities for women to advance and the level of status dictate a female's quality of life.

Hm...very interesting observation, boO. I agree. Being an upstart at such times was a brave thing to do. Emma certainly was a strong woman at a time when others were more traditional and perhaps submissive. I assume that people at her time were very much against tough women like Emma was. Yes?

[Reporter]

More questions on Chapter 2.

1. How big do you think Ms. Taylor's wedding cake was? It's interesting that so many people attended the wedding and yet there were still leftovers of the cake for a week or so afterwards.

2.  Why does Jane Austen make so much fuss of the wedding cake near the end of the chapter? Why does she, the author, mention Mr. Woodhouse's dislike of wedding cakes? Is she trying to show more of Mr. Woodhouse's personality? Like, when he disliked it so much he even went around town to tell people not to have wedding cakes and also consulted the apothecary about his stomach's "disagreements" with wedding cakes. And does Jane Austen really mean to talk about wedding cakes near the end of the chapter or does she mean to use wedding cakes as an allusion to weddings themselves? It's not clear to me.

3.  Is Mr. Weston really in love with Ms. Taylor? Do you think this is a better match than his previous marriage to Ms. Churchill? In what way? Again, we don't know much about Ms. Taylor--only that she is intelligent and has won the hearts of Emma and her father and, maybe, even Mr. Knightley.  But is she rich like Ms. Churchill was?

4.  What is happening between Frank and Ms. Taylor--his new step-mother? I am surprised Frank has never made any effort to stay connected with his father, Mr. Weston. But when Ms. Taylor became Mrs. Weston, Frank began writing to her some "handsome" letters that  have become the talks of the town.  What do you think of this relationship? There seems to be no romantic relationship between them. And the letters have  become public. People actually talked about them but didn't seem disturbed by the connection between them. Mr. Weston has not said anything about them, either. Jane Austen seems to indicate that such practice was acceptable. But is it sn appropriate thing for a step-mother and a step-son to do? If Mrs. Weston was a Hmong step-mother and  Frank was a Hmong step-son, what do you think can happen here?

[Reporter]

Reporter When time permit I will provide a more in-depth analysis of chapter two. Thus far these are my observations:

1) Mr Woohouse I believe is a hypochodraic which explains his disposition and strange habits, which is consulting with his personal doctor Mr Perry.

2) It is suggested that marrying above one's social class will only lead to trouble. Mr Weston first marriage to Miss Churchill, although benefitted Mr Weston financially as Miss Churchill is from a wealthy and well-connected family.

To be continue...

Good observations so far, boO.  I agree that Mr. Woodhouse has some personal problems. If he wasn't Emma's father, I wonder how Emma would have viewed him as.

Ms. Churchill's wealthy family has little respect for Mr. Weston. Even her parents are very displeased with the match, although they gave the wedding a good "decorum."  But I think the marriage turned out bad partly because Mr. Weston wasn't in love with Ms. Churchill. He just loved it that Ms. Churchill fell in love with him. But Jane Austen hasn't said whether he was truly in love with her, too. Right?

OK. I look forward to more of your analysis and to those analyses by others, too.

[Reporter]

Next assignment: Chapter 3. To be discussed at end of January 2011!!

[sprite]

Haven't read much on Hmongs or books by Hmongs. Haven't even read the one by that Yang girl.  I've only read the Dust of Life, Tangled Threads and The Spirit Catches You and You Fall Down. Pathetic, I know.  But I'm moving away from English authors and all that English history stuff to Chinese.  Currently, the author I'm reading is Lisa See. I've read Peony In Love, Snow Flower and the Secret Fan and Shanghai Girls.  Excellent, excellent books!

Read "Waiting" by Ha Jin. I thought it to be excellent!