Hmong Next Leader

[TubHmong]

We should stop this crap, we don't need anymore of this kind of leadership--we have enough troubles within the Hmong community already.  Just look at the reality today; we don't even have a country and everyone fight for positions already--koj muaj koj ib pham kuv muaj kuv ib pham--cov ua nom ntxias cov ruam noj (buying positions)--tus twg tau ua nom lawm mas ua mus tas simneej thiab lub meejmom mus rau nws cuab kwvtij one general after another ZOO LI QHOV VIDEO NTAWD NTAG!  HMOOB YUAV SIB TUA TUAG THIAB MUAJ KEV SIB TU SIAB VIM TEJ NYUAG MEEJMOM CANDY-DAG ZOO LI NO NTAG!!!!!!

[NceegVaj]

Settle down kids.  -- No need to bash.  We are the best generation ever to exist!

[3miao]

We should stop this crap, we don't need anymore of this kind of leadership--we have enough troubles within the Hmong community already.  Just look at the reality today; we don't even have a country and everyone fight for positions already--koj muaj koj ib pham kuv muaj kuv ib pham--cov ua nom ntxias cov ruam noj (buying positions)--tus twg tau ua nom lawm mas ua mus tas simneej thiab lub meejmom mus rau nws cuab kwvtij one general after another ZOO LI QHOV VIDEO NTAWD NTAG!  HMOOB YUAV SIB TUA TUAG THIAB MUAJ KEV SIB TU SIAB VIM TEJ NYUAG MEEJMOM CANDY-DAG ZOO LI NO NTAG!!!!!!

Thats why we need a diferent succession method then right now.  Heredity does not work any more.  We to separate the purse string from this position to prevent temptation.  Read the build a better Hmong future thread for more details in the debate section.

 People are afraid of leaders and I don't blame.  These people have done nothing to deserve the title. They have no plans and don't even care about the community.  They only show up when they want $$$$.  The status quo needs to change for the Hmong to have a better future.

http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2011/03/exit_voice_and_3.html

There are two types of checks on power.  Democratic checks are the ability to vote for different people and policies.  Market checks are the ability of individuals to choose different systems.  In A.O. Hirschman's famous terminology, voice is the use of the democratic check, while exit is the use of the market check.  Exit is much more powerful.   What Maloberti is saying is that the key to forcing improvement in government is gaining a better exit option.

[vangkm007]

tell that to vangkm    

dude went off and cussed at J. for blasting him to stop tabooing, go out there and make a difference in his community and stop slandering and discrediting GVP...if he thinks he knows better than GVP. That was funny when it hit vangkm to the core and all he had left in him was to call J. a khaus pim ---when J. is the type to advise that none of her Vang brothers should ever take his Vang sisters as a bride.

He was the one that put up his own picture on PH of him and Corey Vang kissing right  

Who's more repulsive? A wise sister who honors and respects the elderlies or the perverted, low-lives who think it's their life and the direction of the elderlies should be dismissed and only their opinions matter?

 

First of all the question was asked if we thought the leadership of the Vang clan should default to GVP's family. I don't believe so and I laid out valid arguments. "J" came at me with a personal attack. I never claimed I wanted to lead the Vangs, in fact I want nothing of the sort. To just completely disregard the subject and openly talk about my private life like that she is an ignorant ****.

We were not talking about me, we were talking about whether the leadership of the Vang clan should default to GVP's sons.

Now tell me how that is not a fuc.king low blow on her behalf?

And if she's as knowledgable as you say why the f.uck was she on here hahaing about her new husband literally weeks after they got married? I know all her little nicks, ever since we had that confrontation she's been logging on as her other ones.

Who the fu.ck I kiss/fu.ck/whatever is none of anyone here's concern. If I was a public figure like GVP's sons then that'd be a different story but I'm not.

Now tell me how the fu.ck you think that stupid haha "got me"? She had nothing to say on the subject that had any weight whatsoever. She insulted two people in the thread and added nothing of value.

And P.S. I didn't post any picture j@ckass, get your facts straight.

And if we're talking straight up community work I am 10000000000% sure I've done more than you or "J". In fact I'm so sure of it that I'd bet you real $$$. You think I sit in here and talk about the things I do out in the community? F.uck no, I may toot my own horn when it comes to a lot of things but the only ppl in here who know what level of involvement I've had with the Hmong community and the greater community of this area know me in real life.

So know what the f.uck you're talking about next time before you decide to recite some second-hand gossip, especially from an ignorant c.unt like "J" aka "O".

[92hb_hb]

correct me if i'm wrong, but in other ethnicities, there isn't as much bickering and infighting, which is why those communities are able to thrive and help each other.  Where as in the hmong community, each clan wants to be on top, and when they are, they only want to help themselves and put the other clans 2nd.. 

Until the old generation dies off and the new generation, which hopefully will be educated, rises up to take leadership and put family ties aside for the betterment of the whole, I don't see the Hmong people having true leader that all can look up to and respect..  When this leader comes, I hope he doesn't have a big head and only wants to help his own clan, either through his own selfishness or the the influences of his clan. 

For example, you didn't see the Clinton  clan or any other presidential extended family going around Amelica saying, "yeah, my cousin's cousin's son is the president of the USA and  yours is not, thus we are better than you.. "  NOPE, they are proud inside and unite on the outside for the betterment of the whole so the country can move forward..  If I was white, I wouldn't care or be upset if my relative did or didn't it into high office, I'd support whomever was most qualified and won the election fairly.  That's the American way and why we're even here...  Else, we'd all be back in Laos fighting for farm land and hills we don't even own.

Even if we had out own country, I know that it would be run like a dictatorship, like most 3rd world countries..  One clan or family wants to be on top and doesn't want to relinquish power through the democratic process.  They want to rule till the end of time.  GVP unofficially did that here in the US.  Never once did I ever hear from him or his clan that he'd like to have elections among the hmong communities in the US to elect a new leader because he wanted to step down as the "leader of the Hmong"..  Nope, he enjoyed the power and fame till the very end..

I"m done ranting..

[3miao]

correct me if i'm wrong, but in other ethnicities, there isn't as much bickering and infighting, which is why those communities are able to thrive and help each other.  Where as in the hmong community, each clan wants to be on top, and when they are, they only want to help themselves and put the other clans 2nd.. 

Until the old generation dies off and the new generation, which hopefully will be educated, rises up to take leadership and put family ties aside for the betterment of the whole, I don't see the Hmong people having true leader that all can look up to and respect..  When this leader comes, I hope he doesn't have a big head and only wants to help his own clan, either through his own selfishness or the the influences of his clan. 

For example, you didn't see the Clinton  clan or any other presidential extended family going around Amelica saying, "yeah, my cousin's cousin's son is the president of the USA and  yours is not, thus we are better than you.. "  NOPE, they are proud inside and unite on the outside for the betterment of the whole so the country can move forward..  If I was white, I wouldn't care or be upset if my relative did or didn't it into high office, I'd support whomever was most qualified and won the election fairly.  That's the American way and why we're even here...  Else, we'd all be back in Laos fighting for farm land and hills we don't even own.

Even if we had out own country, I know that it would be run like a dictatorship, like most 3rd world countries..  One clan or family wants to be on top and doesn't want to relinquish power through the democratic process.  They want to rule till the end of time.  GVP unofficially did that here in the US.  Never once did I ever hear from him or his clan that he'd like to have elections among the hmong communities in the US to elect a new leader because he wanted to step down as the "leader of the Hmong"..  Nope, he enjoyed the power and fame till the very end..

I"m done ranting..

As human beings, every people is like that.  Check the history of any people.  The problem is the system. The power of the purse needs to be separated from.the executive position.  Second, a succession system needs to be established which has accountability & representation .

[vangkm007]

correct me if i'm wrong, but in other ethnicities, there isn't as much bickering and infighting, which is why those communities are able to thrive and help each other.  Where as in the hmong community, each clan wants to be on top, and when they are, they only want to help themselves and put the other clans 2nd..  

I see only one reason for the amount of in-fighting and bickering in the Hmong community - lack of education. Misinformation can be spread easily, just think of all the rumors on this forum alone that are taken as truth. Hmong ppl are still too ignorant and don't know how to ask questions of their leaders, particularly in this country where the rules and laws are much different from our own. The ignorance comes in when politicians take advantage of uneducated Hmong and they don't even know it. Other ways we're shooting ourselves in the foot are by not asking the right and tough questions of our leaders and taking everything they say as truth instead of questioning/criticizing and really breaking down arguments/points and coming up with your own. I dont' see many Hmong ppl being able to do that even on this forum where so many of us are more highly educated.

When we as a people become more educated we'll be able to come together, take a look throughout history and you'll see this is the case in every single civilization/society. In the early years of America there were tons and tons of political parties each with their own agenda.

[3miao]

I see only one reason for the amount of in-fighting and bickering in the Hmong community - lack of education. Misinformation can be spread easily, just think of all the rumors on this forum alone that are taken as truth. Hmong ppl are still too ignorant and don't know how to ask questions of their leaders, particularly in this country where the rules and laws are much different from our own. The ignorance comes in when politicians take advantage of uneducated Hmong and they don't even know it. Other ways we're shooting ourselves in the foot are by not asking the right and tough questions of our leaders and taking everything they say as truth instead of questioning/criticizing and really breaking down arguments/points and coming up with your own. I dont' see many Hmong ppl being able to do that even on this forum where so many of us are more highly educated.

When we as a people become more educated we'll be able to come together, take a look throughout history and you'll see this is the case in every single civilization/society. In the early years of America there were tons and tons of political parties each with their own agenda.

I agree with the misinformation part.  As a community, much of the information spread through rumors only.  Without a press or a way for people to fact check, the community is a hostage to the so called leader.

[NceegVaj]

 
*****NOTHING NEW **********8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR9e-aE9aqo

[3miao]

*****NOTHING NEW **********8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR9e-aE9aqo

Why do they fight?   $$$$.   Remove the $$$ from the executive position....

[MISS-HMONG-LORD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR9e-aE9aqo

Where is the physical fighting part?  Bickering and arguing isn't fun without fights.

[YeejKoob13]

Actually NceegVaj is correct on some of his statements, especially about how temperamental former Gen Vaj Pov was and how he ordered the killings of some ppl who were his former friends, supporters and extended relatives, for no other reason than him suspecting they may betray him. He had a personal assassin named Nom Tooj (Tooj Txawj Nyag) Yaj back in LosTsuas who did some of his personal biddings. Ironically VP had him killed in Thailand (around 1982) so as to silence anything more that he could damage VP and a few of his Colonels with.

Many of you guys are too young (and this is not to insult you) or just don't know the other side of VP's dark deeds so are standing up for him, which is fine as he has done some good for us Hmong, without clear understanding. The lack of knowledge and history are clouding your judgments thus making you praise and give credits to VP more than what should only be accorded to him.

If you go to Google and search "social.culture .hmong" and further search within that forum "Gen Vang Pao" you will see older ppl who knew or had first hand experiences/ knowledge about VP and his misdeeds. Now of course you should read it with a grain of salt, but my assessment is that on the whole some of the people there are accurate.


Btw, I'm not an old man by any means.

[YeejKoob13]

By the way Tswb, VP's son, is the extremely fat guy right? If so, he seems reasonably moderate and understanding of where his dad and past leaders went wrong. If one can get over his appearance, one could accept that he's capable of holding some informal leadership role.

[YeejKoob13]

To my knowledge no Ly clan truly attempted to kill VP at all, save that one episode (in the mid 60's) when Touby Lyfoung instigated the coup to keep VP out of LongCheng when he went left the country to treat his gun wound from the NVA/PL sniper. Even then other powerful Ly clans (Lis 9 txig) did not support Touby hence the coup didn't fully materialized.. . VP praised the Ly 9 clan which sided and saved him. However in just a few short years, in early 70's, VP turned and ordered hits on them... All because one of the aspiring and educated Ly's did not agree with VP's strategy of sending our hmong ppl, including very young men and boys to fight and do more than our share for the country. The Ly wanted to achieve peace to save hmong rather than continue to engage in warfare, which a whole generation(s?) was almost wiped out. VP and his illiterate advisors then began viewing this Ly guy as a threat even though he only wanted to help VP and the Hmong. Hence VP put bounties on him and his brothers/relatives. And VP's mom are these Ly's aunt! And one of VP's wives are these Ly's aunt as well. And one of VP's advisors, a colonel, is these Ly's uncle (their dads first cousin).... Basically as the war wore on VP turned on a lot of ppl because of paranoia and bad advice from a couple of his (ill)advisors.

I'm using a blackberry playbook to write this so it's very slow and probably has many spelling mistakes or misused words (auto correct/spelling).

[jon_jon]

Actually NceegVaj is correct on some of his statements, especially about how temperamental former Gen Vaj Pov was and how he ordered the killings of some ppl who were his former friends, supporters and extended relatives, for no other reason than him suspecting they may betray him. He had a personal assassin named Nom Tooj (Tooj Txawj Nyag) Yaj back in LosTsuas who did some of his personal biddings. Ironically VP had him killed in Thailand (around 1982) so as to silence anything more that he could damage VP and a few of his Colonels with.

Many of you guys are too young (and this is not to insult you) or just don't know the other side of VP's dark deeds so are standing up for him, which is fine as he has done some good for us Hmong, without clear understanding. The lack of knowledge and history are clouding your judgments thus making you praise and give credits to VP more than what should only be accorded to him.

If you go to Google and search "social.culture .hmong" and further search within that forum "Gen Vang Pao" you will see older ppl who knew or had first hand experiences/ knowledge about VP and his misdeeds. Now of course you should read it with a grain of salt, but my assessment is that on the whole some of the people there are accurate.


Btw, I'm not an old man by any means.

i can attest to this...

my parents know the white guy aka CIA, forgot his name but they've seen his pics numerous times and they helped planted/picked opium for GVP. that was one way they were able to get food during the war and was provided shelter. they don't know the whereabouts of opium trade going on but it was going somewhere and somebody was getting paid big bucks! but to them it was the only way to survive and have protection.

when GVP came to the US we were one of the first families here. btw, i'm one of the youngest kids left in my family, and my parents are first generation hmong americans here in the states...