Are Hmong the original Chinese?

[3miao]

If you are thinking about being Huaxia then not.  I am referring the origin of the word 'China'.  It is based on Indian text some 2500 years ago. 

http://www.china.org.cn/english/culture/230489.htm
http://www.sino-platonic.org/complete/spp188_yelang_china.pdf

The links above say the origin of the word is based on a Hmong kingdom.  If that is the case then may be we are Chinese.

[magicofju]

No you dumbfuck, China derived from their first dynasty, Qin (in old pinyin "Chin").

Get rid of that stupid username, Miao in Mandarin means seedling you moron. They see us as inferior.

You branding yourself a Miao is like kissing our enemy's ass.

I swear, kids these days are stupid.

And please don't tell me you're that dumbfuck XeejLauj from AsianFinest aka niamtxiv from YouTube.

hahahhaa LOL  I like your brutal and blunt vulgur honesty sometimes

[3miao]

Have you read the sources?  They are more recent than your info.   The Western branch of Miao came from that area if you bother to look.  Do read the sources before you make yourself look bad. I look forward to a scholarly debate with you.  We are trying to find the truth about our history.   If you have supporting facts please share it with us.

[magicofju]

Have you read the sources?  They are more recent than your info.   The Western branch of Miao came from that area if you bother to look.  Do read the sources before you make yourself look bad. I look forward to a scholarly debate with you.  We are trying to find the truth about our history.   If you have supporting facts please share it with us.

I wouldn't want to be referred to as a "Miao". To those who never understood what that term really meant, must really like being enslaved. Remember when we were kids our moms, grandmas, motherly matriarchs use to scold us kids when we ate on our knees: "Tsis txhob txhos caug tsam lawm hnub mus ua "suav" qhev lod?" It has become a superstition but resonates some sort of truth about our history. We packed up our sh*t and left China because some of our Chinese ancestors looked down on us and persecuted us. Haiv neeg Hmoob have always been neeg zoo, and loyal and loving people, but because our Chinese rulers saw us as inferior, we rebelled and escaped.

Hey Insignia, I bet this is 3Miao is MrPloverwi undercover Or maybe some MrPloverwi sympathizer?  

[3miao]

I noticed you have not read the source.  Geographicly, Qin does not border India and the silk road has not been created yet.  Qin is a one syllable one, Zina is two.  The old theory that Qin is China is wrong.  Where did Marco Polo get the idea China existed?  If you read the source you would know.  It came from Indian through the Middle East because, India has been trading with the Far East since 500BCE.  The only trade route at the time is through Yunnan a part of the Yelang kingdom.

As for 3miao, it is in support of our brothers in China.  If they want to be called Miao, are we going to abandon them?  It will take time for them to come around.  We are too few already.  What about our brothers who don't even know they are Hmong any more?  How can we ever think of a homeland when we are being so divisive?  When need everyone if our dream is to become true.

[magicofju]

I noticed you have not read the source.  Geographicly, Qin does not border India and the silk road has not been created yet.  Qin is a one syllable one, Zina is two.  The old theory that Qin is China is wrong.  Where did Marco Polo get the idea China existed?  If you read the source you would know.  It came from Indian through the Middle East because, India has been trading with the Far East since 500BCE.  The only trade route at the time is through Yunnan a part of the Yelang kingdom.

As for 3miao, it is in support of our brothers in China.  If they want to be called Miao, are we going to abandon them?  It will take time for them to come around.  We are too few already.  What about our brothers who don't even know they are Hmong any more?  How can we ever think of a homeland when we are being so divisive?  When need everyone if our dream is to become true.

Yes, for the three groups that dispersed (I think.) Is this why Hmoob people still does not get along or see eye-to-eye to this day then? Should we blame our past and our ancestors or blame our own dark and heavy heart that came along with human nature? Because when our mythical Hmoob God Chi You was killed by the Yellow Emperor and cut up into nine pieces and thrown all over the earth, clans were possibly formed so that the Hmoob people could not be united anymore?

People might get tired and annoyed with my constant usage of VP as an example, but because VP may have saw the past and heard the legends passed down to him from his own forefathers, that Hmoob people have always been oppressed, persecuted and treated like lower class citizens in China, he married several hmong clans' daughters as a way to unite the Hmong people again, VP's sisters married into the Vue, Ly/Lee, Lor, Thao clans too, so that the Neeb Tswb Family (VP's dad's family) can bring equality and peace among all the clans again. Those that "envied" him because of his rise to rank and power with the Royal Lao Army, that a quick, charming and swift young man, coming from a poor farmer in the highland of Laos, used VP's lifestyle in polygamy as a reasoning to discredit him and blame him for dividing all the hmong clans only. We may all have different last names, do take pride in that, (but to avoid tabooing) we are all ib Haiv neeg Hmoob zoo ib yam, roj tshav zoo ib yam, koj ntuas kuv, kuv ntuas koj so that Hmong people will all be at the SAME level, shoulder to shoulder. He has always stressed that in many of his speeches. VP truely loved his Hmong people. He did not change or f*ck up Hmong history, He MADE and became a part of Hmong history and gave every Hmong person a name and a face here in America, put himself on the line, so that Americans thiaj li saib tau neeg Hmoob. Those that fail to realize that, still have a lot of catching up to do.

So no I don't believe we are original Chinese people. But feel free to share what you've studied. It is rather interesting and insightful.

[Fishhead]

Miao in chinese mean seeding...Imag ing Dandelion, you can't completely kill dandelion...hm ong play similar role

Miao in Vietnamese mean cat ... that's how everything start it

[3miao]

When say Hmong I meant as an umbrella term for all groups of Hmong.  The Yelang kingdom is said to cover all the known areas all the Hmong groups currently occupy and more.  It was huge enough to raise an army of 100,000 men.
http://www.topchinatravel.com/china-attractions/wansheng-stone-forest.htm

Your example is backward.  The Indians knew us first in 500 BCE.  Marco Polo used the Silk road to reach Genghis Khan almost 2000 yrs later.  Marco Polo called the Han Chinese.  By that time, Yelang no longer existed.  It had become a part of thr Yuan Dynasty.

The link suggested the Yelang kingdom reached up  to the Yangze river because the kingdom fought with Chu also as recorded in Chinese history.
Geoff Wade the author of the paper suggested the kingdom reached all the way into 100 Yue .

[Reporter]

Somehow the period between 1960 and the present makes more sense to me.

[3miao]

I meant Kublai Khan.  I think the remanents of Yelang fell to Nanzhao during the Tang Dynasty.  The Tang helped Nanzhao conquered all the surrounding tribes.  The Yelang kept the Hmong culture safe until the Mongols.  The Mongols finally invaded Hmong country.  This eventually lead to the Hmong diaspora.

[magicofju]

I meant Kublai Khan.  I think the remanents of Yelang fell to Nanzhao during the Tang Dynasty.  The Tang helped Nanzhao conquered all the surrounding tribes.  The Yelang kept the Hmong culture safe until the Mongols.  The Mongols finally invaded Hmong country.  This eventually lead to the Hmong diaspora.

I don't know whether to applaude you on your studies or to disbelieve you on this one. You think only?  But your username was very misleading. "Miao" to most people who understood the meaning, was always a deragatory term to label the Hmoob people.

Subjects such as the Hmong people's origin makes for good debate and topics of discussion doesn't it? When coworkers or people who doesn't know about my heritage should and have asked me, to make it easy and not having to go into details with tracing back to thousands of years, I simply tell them my family are Hmoob people from Laos, who came to this country after the Vietnam War, and there was a Hmong General named Vang Pao who helped trailblazed the way for Hmong people's freedom. Those born in this country and for the future generations, who does not know about the war or their parents' history yet, will read about it someday and the stories will get passed down by mouth by those who do understand.

[3miao]

According to Chinese records, the demise of the kingdom took placed about 27 BCE?? I don't recall the exact date.  The king at the time died in a battle with the Han.  Since then Chinese record had little information, because they were busy with the nomads of northern China.  The next record was during the 3 kingdom period.   The Han Shu put down a rebellion in area when the local tribes got invovled in the struggle for Han Shu.  The defeat was not too bad because they left the tribes alone. Until the Tang Dynasty, the Han were too bust with the Mongols, Qiang, Turks and internal fights.  Under the Nanzhao and Dali much of the Hmong culture remained untouched.  When the Mongols conquered China everthing changed.


http://www.imperialchina.org/Tang_Dynasty.html
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhuge_Liang%27s_Southern_Campaign
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200210/25/
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Nanzhao?wasRedirected=true

You see for hundreds of years the area of Yelang  was untouched by any major powers.

[3miao]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:China_5.jpg
Here is a map of the 3 kingdoms.  No control of Yelang.

irca_700_CE.pn g" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tang_Dynasty_c irca_700_CE.pn g
Here is a map of Tang Dynasty.   No control of Yelang

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:China_11a.jpg
Here is a map of Song Dynasty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Yuan_ch.png
The Mongols changed everthing.

[3miao]

Our words for Chinese came  from the 3 kingdoms  era.  The Shu conquered  part of Yelang but left because they had fight with Wei & Wu.  They had no resources to control it.  We just went higher up into the mountains.

[3miao]

http://hmongstudies.org/ZhiqiangYangHSJ10.pdf

The connotation of the "miao" name is worse than you think.  Read the article above.  I don't want to use it.  We need to be reminded of our struggle for dignity.  Let it be a rallying cry for unity.  We must not forget our suffering or we repeat the same mistake.  I'm afraid we might forget.  Why do the Jewish allow the concentration remain open?  Why do the Japanese make a shrine for the a-bomb?  Why did the US make a memorial of Pearl Harbor?  Let it motivate us to be better.