A real debate, a real conversation

[vangkm007]

I'm sick and tired of partisan politics. I'm sick of one side winning by a slim margin and calling it a mandate. I'd rather talk about our similarities rather than our differences. I'd rather focus on working together to achieve a better future for us all rather than selectively to achieve a better future for "some" and not others. I'm sick of the polarization and the ignorance.

I find these "debate" forums are not populated by fact based opinions but "feelings" and "assumptions". This kind of gut reaction thinking only stifles true debate and devolves into nothing more than a shouting match.

Yes I have been extremely passionate about some things (mostly social issues) but I am more than willing to objectively listen to the fact based opinions of my counterparts on the other side of the political spectrum and I hope they'd do the same for my fact based opinons as well.

Just for those who question my loyalty to any political party, I do not belong to any. I find myself too progressive even for Dems, but as they are the only group with any power whose values are more in line with my own I support them marginally over the Republicans. I do believe in practicality too though, that we should consider practical solutions, not idealized ones...this means compromise (a word that is rarely spoken in politics nowadays---especially by the right wing).

So please, if you're posting in these debate forums I'd like to hear more than just your "opinion". I'd like to hear WHY your opinion is valid and what facts you have to back it up...otherwise, it is not a debate, it's just a shouting match.

[hmongperson]

I'm sick and tired of partisan politics. I'm sick of one side winning by a slim margin and calling it a mandate. I'd rather talk about our similarities rather than our differences. I'd rather focus on working together to achieve a better future for us all rather than selectively to achieve a better future for "some" and not others. I'm sick of the polarization and the ignorance.

I find these "debate" forums are not populated by fact based opinions but "feelings" and "assumptions". This kind of gut reaction thinking only stifles true debate and devolves into nothing more than a shouting match.

Yes I have been extremely passionate about some things (mostly social issues) but I am more than willing to objectively listen to the fact based opinions of my counterparts on the other side of the political spectrum and I hope they'd do the same for my fact based opinons as well.

Just for those who question my loyalty to any political party, I do not belong to any. I find myself too progressive even for Dems, but as they are the only group with any power whose values are more in line with my own I support them marginally over the Republicans. I do believe in practicality too though, that we should consider practical solutions, not idealized ones...this means compromise (a word that is rarely spoken in politics nowadays---especially by the right wing).

So please, if you're posting in these debate forums I'd like to hear more than just your "opinion". I'd like to hear WHY your opinion is valid and what facts you have to back it up...otherwise, it is not a debate, it's just a shouting match.

Finally, someone with some brains. Debate doesn't mean to win or to lose. In fact, debating is about the learning of new ideals. The true meaning of debate has been lost because we associate "debating" with "arguing."

Nowadays, especially here, I don't see any real debates just fits that people like to throw. When they can not disprove an argument, they resort to personal attacks. Thus, I say the education system has failed the Hmong people.

I myself, politically, is a moderate. I believe, especially in politics, one should look at something on an issue by issue basis, instead of following so strictly to party lines. Opposing something just because you are Republican or Democrat is just ludicrous.

[pink taco]

what if i was winning the shouting matches?

[hmongperson]

what if i was winning the shouting matches?

You can shout real loud?

[pink taco]

You can shout real loud?

I can if I type in CAPS Lock 

[Gutts]

I agree.  Real debates usually don't begin by calling people you disagree with "morons", "dipshts", "idiot".

[vangkm007]

I agree.  Real debates usually don't begin by calling people you disagree with "morons", "dipshts", "idiot".

In your case I make an exception, you are an idiot. You lack critical reading and comprehension skills, you cannot assert your position with any clarity or grace, you say stupid things often.

Also, anyone who takes a "moral" stand against another person's personal choice when that choice doesn't effect them negatively is an idiot. You cannot call yourself a thoughtful person if your morality is absolute, which in your case it seems to be.

Don't worry, you don't have to think for yourself, you seem to parrot conservative talking points like the human puppet you are.

[hmongperson]

In your case I make an exception, you are an idiot. You lack critical reading and comprehension skills, you cannot assert your position with any clarity or grace, you say stupid things often.

Also, anyone who takes a "moral" stand against another person's personal choice when that choice doesn't effect them negatively is an idiot. You cannot call yourself a thoughtful person if your morality is absolute, which in your case it seems to be.

Don't worry, you don't have to think for yourself, you seem to parrot conservative talking points like the human puppet you are.

Brutal!!!

[Evil_K_Man]

In your case I make an exception, you are an idiot. You lack critical reading and comprehension skills, you cannot assert your position with any clarity or grace, you say stupid things often.

Also, anyone who takes a "moral" stand against another person's personal choice when that choice doesn't effect them negatively is an idiot. You cannot call yourself a thoughtful person if your morality is absolute, which in your case it seems to be.

Don't worry, you don't have to think for yourself, you seem to parrot conservative talking points like the human puppet you are.

Note to self:  Don't mess with vangkm007

[Gutts]

In your case I make an exception, you are an idiot. You lack critical reading and comprehension skills, you cannot assert your position with any clarity or grace, you say stupid things often.

Also, anyone who takes a "moral" stand against another person's personal choice when that choice doesn't effect them negatively is an idiot. You cannot call yourself a thoughtful person if your morality is absolute, which in your case it seems to be.

Don't worry, you don't have to think for yourself, you seem to parrot conservative talking points like the human puppet you are.

Lol.  I love you too.

[Evil_K_Man]

I think personal opinions are fine so long as they have a logical and rational basis.   Facts compliment and validate a person's position, but you shouldn't rely soley on them.  Debates entail critical thinking and to simply turn them into google search competitions kind of stifles the spirit of debating.

But yes a lot of the opinions on this forum are rather unfounded and...well to put it bluntly...stup id (myself included at times, but I do try to resist from making close ended comments)

I'm an independent but am more align with Democratic values, but thats not to say I can't agree with a Republican or other views.

[Gutts]

I think personal opinions are fine so long as they have a logical and rational basis.   Facts compliment and validate a person's position, but you shouldn't rely soley on them.  Debates entail critical thinking and to simply turn them into google search competitions kind of stifles the spirit of debating.

But yes a lot of the opinions on this forum are rather unfounded and...well to put it bluntly...stup id (myself included at times, but I do try to resist from making close ended comments)

I'm an independent but am more align with Democratic values, but thats not to say I can't agree with a Republican or other views.

Well said.  Very respectable. +1

[YAX]

I agree.  Real debates usually don't begin by calling people you disagree with "morons", "dipshts", "idiot".

 Haha.. I've been called that many times.  It usually occurs when the other dude's losing the argument.  He starts his sentence with those words like it's going to make his argument any more valid. 

[YAX]

I'm sick and tired of partisan politics. ....

So please, if you're posting in these debate forums I'd like to hear more than just your "opinion". I'd like to hear WHY your opinion is valid and what facts you have to back it up...otherwise, it is not a debate, it's just a shouting match.

Sorry Dem.  you can't expect the Republican argument to be "valid" because that would involve logic.  They argue from what feels right in their "hearts", not logic.  They live by the line "I know it's right because it feels RIGHT in my heart".

[vangkm007]

My biggest issue with male Republicans generally is they cannot tell me why THEY THEMSELVES believe this crap. They believe it, but they don't have their own rational reasons for believing it. I cannot deal with these simpleton morons, I just don't have the patience for people who cannot critically analyze information and have some sort of practical rationale for believing in it.

I do notice that when men tend to be Democrats they can assert their beliefs with some sense of intelligence and rationale, instead of gut feelings.

Lol.  I love you too.

If you haven't noticed, I only dismiss you in the Debate forums or threads on social issues. I don't carry that over to any other forum, in fact I recall trying to be helpful when you had questions in the Health forum.

I will not pull any punches, if you're acting like an idiot I will say so.