18 Clan Foundation = Hmong Achilles’ Heel

[3miao]

I don't see why you keep talking about succession planning because there is not an organization that is recognize by all Hmong.  So such discussion or attempts to do that is futile.  We need to work on building our kids future via wealth, knowledge, and resource.  Succession planning talks will only cause greater divide because Hmong people don't like kings.  Our traditions and culture is tribunal like a republic.  We killed our king and supposively he cursed us until our hearts change.  Has it?

Succession is about transition not about kings.  Any thriving society does not have succession problems like we do.  You are correct leadership is needed.  Succession planning ensures stability.  Why do small business fail after the founder dies or leaves? Succession.  Big companies do not have this problem because they have a built in succession process.  The business does not need the founders.  Looking back at out history, that is the biggest problem.  We've had many great leaders.  As soon  as that person dies we have a stampee for leadrship resulting in civil war.  We have to find a way to prevent this from happening again.

I agree we need to work on our resources.  Do we do it separately or do we combine our limited resourced.  Studies have proven that working as group achieve achieve better results than as individuals.  When we start talking about group effort we need to deal with succession so the group will continue long after the founders are gone.

This why I'm talking about succession. 

[hmongperson]

Funniest thread ever.  What else would you like me to prove to you?  Would you also like me to prove that the air you breath have oxygen too?  LMAO.  Common knowledge buddy.  If not, google is your friend.

 

I know you won't be able to and I'll be the bigger man and not press it anymore because I don't like to kick people when they're down.How about you prove you didn't lie?

[GhostRider]

 After 7 pages, the answer remains questionable.. .will history repeat itself?  As the 7 pages have shown, there're signs of hope, but the signs has always been there even back then.

[3miao]

After 7 pages, the answer remains questionable.. .will history repeat itself?  As the 7 pages have shown, there're signs of hope, but the signs has always been there even back then.

If the problem of succession is addressed and handled,  18 clan will work.  It won't matter what you call it, people will form along the clan grouping because the clan means safety.

[8v10un30sun]

My understanding of succession planning is to assure that the transition of power and authority is done smoothly without interuption.  What power and authority are you referring to?  I suppose if we can establish such well then succession planning is critical.  Until then, I wouldn't worry about succession planning until such exist.  IMHO, you have the cart before the horse. 

Succession is about transition not about kings.  Any thriving society does not have succession problems like we do.  You are correct leadership is needed.  Succession planning ensures stability.  Why do small business fail after the founder dies or leaves? Succession.  Big companies do not have this problem because they have a built in succession process.  The business does not need the founders.  Looking back at out history, that is the biggest problem.  We've had many great leaders.  As soon  as that person dies we have a stampee for leadrship resulting in civil war.  We have to find a way to prevent this from happening again.

I agree we need to work on our resources.  Do we do it separately or do we combine our limited resourced.  Studies have proven that working as group achieve achieve better results than as individuals.  When we start talking about group effort we need to deal with succession so the group will continue long after the founders are gone.

This why I'm talking about succession. 

[3miao]

My understanding of succession planning is to assure that the transition of power and authority is done smoothly without interuption.  What power and authority are you referring to?  I suppose if we can establish such well then succession planning is critical.  Until then, I wouldn't worry about succession planning until such exist.  IMHO, you have the cart before the horse.  

Succession has to be address at the start of any enterprise otherwise there will be chaos.  Why do so many Hmong business partnership go bust at the moment of success?  They failed to address this issue.  If the issue is dealt with at the beginning these business would still be around.  Just when the business is about to grow, the partners fight for control.  Succession is critical to any enterprise and must be address before it gets too far along.

Before anyone say it is a Hmong thing, I suggest you research all the successful family business or partnership that fails.  It is a human issue.  Everyone has it.

[8v10un30sun]

I clearly see what you are trying to say.  It's very important to any A.  My issue with what you are saying is that we, Hmong don't have an A that is respected by all.  The world biggest Hmong organization happens to be a nonprofit organization called Hmong Christian Missionary Alliance.  They boast the biggest membership and the biggest budget for an all Hmong nonprofit.  Heck the majority of their fundings are via Hmong members.  Now if Hmong on the general level can come up with such an organization, then yes, we need a succession planning.  However, we all know that Hmong people have an issue of too many chiefs.  Every guy with a pea size ambition wants to be the chief.  So hence our problem...the same problem facing the middle east.  We need more role players and less superstars or the Hmong will sadly lose like the East STP senate seat.  That's an example of our pea size ambition getting in the way of what is best for Hmong.  Today we have the same problem that face us 2000 years ago.   

Succession has to be address at the start of any enterprise otherwise there will be chaos.  Why do so many Hmong business partnership go bust at the moment of success?  They failed to address this issue.  If the issue is dealt with at the beginning these business would still be around.  Just when the business is about to grow, the partners fight for control.  Succession is critical to any enterprise and must be address before it gets too far along.

Before anyone say it is a Hmong thing, I suggest you research all the successful family business or partnership that fails.  It is a human issue.  Everyone has it.

[3miao]

However, we all know that Hmong people have an issue of too many chiefs.  Every guy with a pea size ambition wants to be the chief.  So hence our problem...the same problem facing the middle east.  We need more role players and less superstars or the Hmong will sadly lose like the East STP senate seat.  That's an example of our pea size ambition getting in the way of what is best for Hmong.  Today we have the same problem that face us 2000 years ago.   

Looking at history, every people have the same problem.  If anyone is to be blame for the STP crises is Senator Mee.  She had the torch and she didn't plan for her replacement.  She had 10yrs to organize a Hmong coaltion and she did not.  Succession was not planned. We need to think bigger than outselves.  What a waste of opportunity.

[8v10un30sun]

Looking at A, every people have the same problem.  If anyone is to be blame for the STP crises is Senator Mee.  She had the torch and she didn't plan for her replacement.  She had 10yrs to organize a Hmong coaltion and she did not.  A was not planned. We need to think bigger than outselves.  What a waste of opportunity.

Again, you have the cart before the horse in your analysis.  Succession planning would not matter because Mee Moua did not have 100% support from the Hmong.  I estimate Mee Moua might have had about at most 40% support (in general TC).  If you have read the news articles, she had woman against her, she had old traditionals against her, and etc...  She had so many enemies.  Mee Moua never fully consolidated the influence of Hmong within her sphere.  She had a minority support at best.  Her hand pick successor would not have faired well due to the seperation of Hmong votes.  It is the seperation of Hmong votes that lost the Hmong the influence at the capital.  Hmong have yet changed their mentality - too many chiefs.

You should read the FEDS and scholary analysis of the SE Asian...and on Hmong.  They wrote that our people had a chieftan problem...that is our true achilles heel...One can say it's the last name as pointed out by the OP, but it is not...no matter what last name, it'll be a society instead of a clan or an ethnic group.

[3miao]

Again, you have the cart before the horse in your analysis.  Succession planning would not matter because Mee Moua did not have 100% support from the Hmong.  I estimate Mee Moua might have had about at most 40% support (in general TC).  If you have read the news articles, she had woman against her, she had old traditionals against her, and etc...  She had so many enemies.  Mee Moua never fully consolidated the influence of Hmong within her sphere.  She had a minority support at best.  Her hand pick successor would not have faired well due to the seperation of Hmong votes.  It is the seperation of Hmong votes that lost the Hmong the influence at the capital.  Hmong have yet changed their mentality - too many chiefs.

You should read the FEDS and scholary analysis of the SE Asian...and on Hmong.  They wrote that our people had a chieftan problem...that is our true achilles heel...One can say it's the last name as pointed out by the OP, but it is not...no matter what last name, it'll be a society instead of a clan or an ethnic group.

Everyone has enemies.  I don't know the whole story but it seems she did not offer any thing to the other 2/3 of the Hmong community to join her coalition.  I think an open succession process could have been a solution.  If they had a chance for the seat they might have joined.

In term of cheifs, it exist in mainstream America: unions, naacp, etc.  It just has different names.

[8v10un30sun]

LOL...Now I see why you and HmongPerson are so heated.  *chuckles*

Get your story straight then we can talk if succession planning would have work in that instance.  Secondly, the US don't have a chieftain problem.  All the power of the US is conslidated into this one guy called President of the US/Commander in Chief of US military.

Everyone has enemies.  I don't know the whole story but it seems she did not offer any thing to the other 2/3 of the Hmong community to join her coalition.  I think an open succession process could have been a solution.  If they had a chance for the seat they might have joined.

In term of cheifs, it exist in mainstream America: unions, naacp, etc.  It just has different names.

[3miao]

LOL...Now I see why you and HmongPerson are so heated.  *chuckles*

Get your story straight then we can talk if succession planning would have work in that instance.  Secondly, the US don't have a chieftain problem.  All the power of the US is conslidated into this one guy called President of the US/Commander in Chief of US military.

The US is a perfect example.  The president is the result of the succesion/transfer of leadership process.  The person serves at most only 8 yrs.  The president is not a true chief.  He does not control the purse strings.  He has masters.  His masters are unions, business, religious groups, etc.  These are chiefs.  The process allows all the losing cheifs to wait.  

For us its the clan.  We don't have this process.  Everyone thinks the leadership position is for life and controls the purse strings.  They all want it.  This idea of a leader is out of date and does not work because it leads to situation like the middle east.  My proposal strips the purse string from this individual making him less attractive.  The time limit prevents him from putting his people in key positions and under mind the process.

[8v10un30sun]

Everyone can have an opinion.  I don't see the union being all powerful at Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker as he tramples over Unions    

The US is a perfect example.  The president is the result of the succesion/transfer of leadership process.  The person serves at most only 8 yrs.  The president is not a true chief.  He does not control the purse strings.  He has masters.  His masters are unions, business, religious groups, etc.  These are chiefs.  The process allows all the losing cheifs to wait.   

For us its the clan.  We don't have this process.  Everyone thinks the leadership position is for life and controls the purse strings.  They all want it.  This idea of a leader is out of date and does not work because it leads to situation like the middle east.  My proposal strips the purse string from this individual making him less attractive.  The time limit prevents him from putting his people in key positions and under mind the process.

[3miao]

Read the article below.  He'll be gone by 2013.  The republicans who passed the bill will be gone too.  Thr republican just gave the state back to the dems.  What a way to unite thw Dems.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42047717/ns/politics-more_politics/

Everyone can have an opinion.  I don't see the union being all powerful at Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker as he tramples over Unions    

[Reporter]

If we want to keep the clan system, we need to develop better understandings among ourselves so that it will not divide us anymore.

Reporter, is the clan system even good? You tell yourself, eh?

Yeah, I'll have to tell myself,  ok? OKThanksBye.