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Peb Hmong Dej Dab, puas muaj leej twg paub?

paub kev cai Hmoob?
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Offline Love2Kiss

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Re: Dej Dab
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2011, 12:01:38 PM »
Hais ces cuag li kuv yuav khav...Let just say that i know enought to protect my family  ;)

Zoo kawg yog le na, kuv nrug koj zoo sab nawb, npawg.




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Offline CheejSiav

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Re: Dej Dab
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2011, 10:48:22 PM »
Hmoob yeej muaj hmoob cov kaws koob....ua niam hnub no suav daws pheej hais tias nws yog lus suav. Ua li, thaum tus txiv hu nkauj neeb nev? yog nws hais lus Hmoob lo yog hais lus suav lo yog hais ob hom sib txuam pis daws. Yog koj muab cov lus suav no coj mus hais rau cov neeg Suav, lawv yeej tsis paub thiab txhais tsis tau.

Cov lus khaws koob uas Hmoob tseem niaj hnub siv no yeej yog the Hmong native language. Cov laus neeg mus cov lus no kaws ntseg lawm xwb, yog yuav muab cov lus khaws koob no coj los txhais rau sab lus hmoob uas peb tseem siv no yuav tsum tau kev tso cai los ntawm tus xeeb xeeb maj thiaj li txhais tau. Cov khaws koob Nplog yeej hais cov lus Nplog, khaws koob Co yeej hais lus Co, khaws koob Suav yeej hais lus Suav, etc. Yog tseem tseem cov lus Suav ces cov neeg Suav av loj yeej txhais tau. Yog thaum koj kawm tau cov lus lawm ces txawm yuav yog leej twg txheev zaj khaws koob hmoob twg yog koj yeej paub nws hais dab tsi.
 
Hmoob tsuas muaj ib hom khaws koob xwb tabsis muab faib ua cuv lawm xwb...just to name a few:

Cuv 1. Vib xas khoos/Pov khoos
            - neeg tua tsis tuag, tes taw lawj xeeb, zog nruab nrog, etc.
Cuv 2. Huab lam siv
            - txuas tes txuas taw, txuas txha, nqaij, leej, tawv thiab foob ntsav.

Yog neb xab paub tiag ces yeej meem tsawb nriag cov thawj laus neeg uas nyob hauv nej lub nroog saib lawv nqa puas tau tuaj. Yog peb tsis khaws tiag cov txhuj hmoob no yuav maj mam ploj mus txog hnub uas tsis muaj cov neeg paub lawm.



Thaub qhov koj hais ko yeej yog thiab tiam sis los peb rov rub sij hawm mus rau Suav teb rau yav thaum thaib tso.
Lub sij hawm ua ntej Yexus yug los rau hauv ntiaj teb no teb chaw suav Hmoob mus tsuam chaw ua ntej lawm hla tus ciam teb Muam Nkauj Lis (Mongolia). Tom qab lub sij hawm no dhau mus Hmoob muaj liaj teb liaj av huv tib si, Hmoob muaj ib qho chaw zoo nyob chaw zoo so los deev siab kom nyob kaj siab lug. Tiam sis thaum suav los nrhiav tau Hmoob liaj teb daim av suav muaj li no, Muaj cov Suav Tuam tshoj, suav cev, muaj ntau hom suav diam. Tiam sis qhov kuv yuav hais no kuv yuav hais tob zog thiab....
Txiv Yawg yog Hmoob tus coj, ntawm Hmoob caj ces thiab Suav muaj li no. "Chou, Shang, and Hsia" Kuv ntseeg tau los ntawm kev tshawb fawb thiab kev kawm tias Hmoob yog cov Hsia, ntawm ob pab pawg no yog cov Chou thiab Shang uas nyias hais nyias lus thaib nyias muaj nyias cai. Muaj tseeb Hmoob yeej muaj Hmoob yam lus rau yog koj mus saib Hmoob teej tug niam ntawv ntawm Hmoob tej Paj ntaub.
Hmoob cov lus kuv xav yeej pauv lawm ntau. Vim li cas? Nyob rau lub sij hawm "Chou, Shang thiab Hmoob" no muaj kev ua tsov ua rog loj heev yuav kom nyias kho tau nyias tej kev sib raug zoo mas yuav tsum yog li no kuv piav rau koj.
Kev sib yuav:
Kev sib yuav los pab kho taus txhua yam. Qhov no yog qhov thawj tsim ntawm Hmoob tej Kwv tij neej tsa tej npe hu txiv hlob, niam hlob, txiv ntxawm niam ntxawm, etc. Thaum koj muab koj ntxhais rau luag yuav lawm qhov no koj sib tuav tes sib raug nrog lawv xeem tod tias nej yog kwv yog tij lawm. Thaum zaj tshoob kev kos no tag ces lawv tsum kev tsov kev rog lawm....tiam sis kev ntxub tseem nyob nws li qub.
Tiam sis Hmoob txoj kev cai nruj heev Hmoob ua tsov ua rog los Hmoob tsis pub Hmoob tej ntxhais mus yuav Suav xeem li suav thiaj li chim suav thiaj li pheej tua pheej tua Hmoob kom tu noob mus. Li cov laus pheej hais "Ntov ntoo laus tseg ntoo mos" no Suav lub tswv yim yog li no. Tiam sis txawm li cas los Hmoob cov menyuam loj hlob los tawv qhawv muaj hwvxyeej ntsuas zog nrog Suav, suav tseem tuaj chib hmoob los hmoob tua yeej. Thaum kawg Hmoob yuav tau poo thiab tuav Phooj tuav ywg khov kho thiab thiaj li tua yeej cov Suav Shang raws li kuv to taub (yog hais yuam kev nej kho los tau) yog li no Hmoob tau tuag coob leej coob tus thaib loj hlob los kawm lus suav thiab kawm lus Mab yog li no lus Hmoob tag nrho kiag xwb feem ntau yog lus Mab thiab Suav tsoom tsuav.
cov suav uas pab Hmoob thiab cov Mab uas pab hmoob thiaj li qhia khawv koob rau Hmoob thiab Hmoob thiaj li mam tua tua suav tsis yeej es thaum kawg nyias thiaj li khiav nyias los rau los tsuas teb lawm.
Yog li lo lus kuv nug thiab xav muab rau nej xav no yog li no, Cov neeg Mab uas Hmoob pheej hais tias Mab Mab no nyob rau Suav teb yog pab twg tiag?
Nej xav zoo zoo os ib qho thiab Cov neeg co (Mien) na yom? lawv paub txuj li Hmoob thaib os. Tej Zaj Tshoob kev kos thiab kev ua neeb ua yaig kuv ntsia lawv tseem paub ntau tshaj Hmoob na. Yog li Hmoob kawm ntawm leej twg los tiag?
Cov neeg Co thiab Hmoob yeej yog kwv tij khiav tsov khiav rog los lawm ntev, yog li no cov neeg Co puas yog cov Chou uas Hmoob koom tes nrog rau los tsis yog?
Yog nej xav paub ntxiv txog rau tej no mus nyeem phau ntawv askiv "Ancient Chinese Warfare" nws qhia mentsis txog Txiv yawg rau hauv thiab. Tus Meskas no tau twm suav kev ua tsov ua rog los lawm ntev.



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Offline Moospej

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Re: Dej Dab
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2011, 09:34:50 AM »
CheejSiav, hais txog haiv neeg Hmoob, peb muaj ob pawg. Pawg 1, yog Hmoob Nyoos. Pawg 2, yog Hmoob Siav. Kuv nloog koj cov lus nws tsuas yog hais txog cov Hmoob siav xwb. Qhov koj hais tias hmoob tej khaws koob, kab tsoob kev kos, neeb yaig, no yog kawm los ntawm mab ntawm suav. Cov Hmoob siav, ces tej zaus koj yuav yog 50%. Tabsis, hais txog ntawm cov Hmoob Nyoos, zoo li koj tseem tsis tau paub. Cov Hmoob Nyoos, lawv yeej tseem nkaws lawv tej keeb kwm, kab lig kev cai, thaib hmoob teej tug los txog niaj hnub niam no txawm yuav nyob sab ntuj twg los lawv tseem khaws.

Yog sab paub qhov tseem ces taug nrhiav cov cag hmoob:

   1. keeb kwm neeg ntiaj teb tshwm sim licas.
   2. keeb kwm noob neej neeg los tshwm sim hauv ntiaj teb no muaj puas zaug?
   3. leej twg/tus dab twg yog tus tsav lub ntiaj teb tam sim no?







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Offline Love2Kiss

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Re: Dej Dab
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2011, 12:26:19 PM »
CheejSiav and MoosPej, meb yog 2 tug paub txug Moob keeb kwm, meb sim paab tshawb nrhav lug moog tso tsua ntawm nuav es peb cov tsi tau paub nuav txa le tau nyeem hab kawm kom paub miv ntsiv txug peb haiv neeg Moob hab seb yom yog meb tsi xaav le caag na.




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Offline Moospej

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Re: Dej Dab
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2011, 10:20:47 AM »
CheejSiav and MoosPej, meb yog 2 tug paub txug Moob keeb kwm, meb sim paab tshawb nrhav lug moog tso tsua ntawm nuav es peb cov tsi tau paub nuav txa le tau nyeem hab kawm kom paub miv ntsiv txug peb haiv neeg Moob hab seb yom yog meb tsi xaav le caag na.



Kuv kuj tsis paub sov yog vim li cas coj laug neeg thiaj li muaj cov txwj thiab cov keeb kwm hmoob kaw cia. They probably has their own reason which i understand. Yog hnub twg Hmoob tsis muaj teb muaj chaw los tseg, yog peb muaj teb chaws no. Kuv mamli mus qhib txoj hauv kev los qhia txog hmoob keeb kwm thiab txwj hmoob li qhos kuv paub. Lub caij no tseem yog lub caij tshawb nrhiav kawm txog hmoob keeb kwm thiab txwj.




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Offline Love2Kiss

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Re: Dej Dab
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2011, 12:21:22 PM »
Kuv kuj tsis paub sov yog vim li cas coj laug neeg thiaj li muaj cov txwj thiab cov keeb kwm hmoob kaw cia. They probably has their own reason which i understand. Yog hnub twg Hmoob tsis muaj teb muaj chaw los tseg, yog peb muaj teb chaws no. Kuv mamli mus qhib txoj hauv kev los qhia txog hmoob keeb kwm thiab txwj hmoob li qhos kuv paub. Lub caij no tseem yog lub caij tshawb nrhiav kawm txog hmoob keeb kwm thiab txwj.



Txawm yog le ntawd es kuv txha has tas yog meb muaj sij hawm nua ces paab search then post tsua ntawm nuav tsua peb cov kws tsi tau paub nuav tau nyeem hab kawm na has yog meb tsi xaav le caag na.




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Offline Moospej

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Re: Dej Dab
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2011, 01:51:41 PM »
Txawm yog le ntawd es kuv txha has tas yog meb muaj sij hawm nua ces paab search then post tsua ntawm nuav tsua peb cov kws tsi tau paub nuav tau nyeem hab kawm na has yog meb tsi xaav le caag na.



Yog koj xav paub ces pib ib qhov new thread in the Hmong Culture & History and see if there is anyone else that will contribute to the subject. I'll share what i know to everyone about Hmong keeb kwm.



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Offline Love2Kiss

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Re: Dej Dab
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2011, 04:26:59 PM »
Yog koj xav paub ces pib ib qhov new thread in the Hmong Culture & History and see if there is anyone else that will contribute to the subject. I'll share what i know to everyone about Hmong keeb kwm.

OK, let's get over there then. Thanks.




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Offline CheejSiav

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Re: Dej Dab
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2011, 03:36:12 PM »
Nod yog kuv tau los ntawm phau ntawv "Ancient Chinese Warfare" By Ralph D Sawyer

Peb lub nruas siv rau dabtsi?

“of particular interest is that the work effort involved in building the Chou capital was not only supervised, but also controlled by the beat of a drum.”

Thaum lawv tsim ib tug laj kab los tiv thaiv lawv, lawv siv lub nruas no los mus ua lawv tej dej num.

Yog li Hmoob yog leej twg?

“the population seems to have been highly intermixed not only in terms of economic classes and occupations, including bronze works, but also in Ethnicity, because several tribes apparently migrated in from the surrounding region.”

Txiv Yawg

“Ch'ih Yu is sometimes seen as the leader of the Eastern Yi centered about Shandong rather than of the Miao in the South, and the conflict is understood as having arison over grazing and agricultural lands in the central region of China, one in a series over rights and leadership among the Yellow Emperor, Agricultural Emperor (Shen Nung), Ch'ih Yu, and Fu Sui. Ch'ih Yu is also thought to have headed an alliance of eighty one or other similarly large number of tribes that seems to have devoted themselves to martial activities and developed new weapons, possibly even of primitive bronze, under his clan's leadership.”

“Ch'ih Yu is therefore identified as the charismatic leader of the Chui Li (Nine Li)-(or otherwise in Hmong would be Cuaj Hli Ntuj) who were reportedly centered in the area of modern Nanyang in Henan province, and thus as Yen Ti's decendants clan that would figure prominently in Chou military history.”

“Many legendary accounts that emphasize Ch'ih Yu's fierceness and brutality point out that he coerced dissident groups into participating in his revolt through the creation of Shackles and widespread use of five harsh punishment. His rebelliousness and mythical aspects were further exaggerated over the centuries. Imperial era tales thus describe him as ugly, even adnormal, in various ways ranging from being marked by a dark red or black complexion to having the horns and feet of an ox or possessing six arms. Ch'ih Yu was supposedly so fierce that his name alone was sufficient to terrify the general populace, and the Yellow Emperor supposedly pretended he wasnt dead in order to employ his image to frighten the perverse. Paradoxically, Ch'ih Yu Fierceness outweighed his brutality or perhaps the two have a certain martial appeal in combination because even today the Miao of Southern China continue to worship Ch'ih Yu as their ancestor. Furthermore, across history he has not only been highly esteemed but also inexplicably seen as one of the Chief progenitors of the Hua-Hsia Culture and the true embodiment of courage. Liu Pang, founder of the Han, venerated both the Yellow Emperor and Ch'ih Yu as war spirits. He continued to be revered in the Han, recent peoples Republic of China (PRC) theoretical publications have advocated emulating him, and some Koreans also continue to regonize him as an ancestor.”



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Offline Love2Kiss

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Re: Dej Dab
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2011, 03:53:58 PM »
Ok, CheejSiav, yog kuv ncu tsi yuam ke nua ces Korean teev hawm Fuab Tais Chi Yu hab laiv yom puas yog? Yog tas yog nua, yog ua caag es Korean ho teev hawm nwg hab? Koj/leej twg sim qha tsua peb seb yog le caag tag?




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Offline CheejSiav

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Re: Dej Dab
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2011, 04:01:14 PM »
Thiab txuas ntxiv qhov no.

San Miao? (Peb Hmoob?)

“A comparative examination of the cultural artifacts so far recovered within the context of China's traditional historical records suggests that several important military events mark the Hsia's history the early sujugation of nearby peoples, especially the San Miao, in protracted conflict, infighting over the royal succession, resulting in a civil war, conflict with the Tung or Eastern Yi and Han Chuo's subsequent seizure of power; Shao-Kang's dramatic restoration of the ruling house following a lengthy period of preperation; inexorable decline through the much-excoriated ryoal excesses that presumably allowed, as well as supposedly justified, the Shang to overthrow the 'Tyrannical' and 'Perverse' Hsia.”

“The Hsia's conflict with the San Miao, essentially a century-long process even though it is usually identified with Yu's reign, is well attested by the pattern of recovered artifacts.
The San Miao were not just defeated but virtually extinquished; the few survivors scattered and their culture in its manifestation as Shih-Chia-Ho during the era of Yao, Hsun, and Yu in the Tung-t'ing and P'o-Yang lake areas simply vanished. Rather than a gradual amalgamation, their definitive ceramic styles and totems were abrubtly replaced in the late twenty-third century BCE in southern Hubei, and Henan by late Lung Shan artifacts.
In fact, rather than simple tribal animosity, a quest for material goods, or a connected effort to sieze prisoners to impress as slaves or employ as sacrificial victims, their strongly dissimilar religious practices and totems may have caused their ongoing clash.
Furthermore, unlike the Tung Yi, who displayed an increasing affinity with Hsia culture, after the conquest the fragmented and relatively isolated San Miao groups that survived retain their distinctivenes s, another indication of a fundamental clash I customs and views, not to mention political domains.”

Expellant from the Tung Yi?

“The San Miao had been closely allied with the Tung Yi (Eastern Yi) of the Ta-Wen-K'o phase, with whom they share a number of cultural traits, including bird totems, and had cooperated with them in fielding coalition-type forces against late Lungshan antagonists, preventing the Latter from dominating either of them it has even been suggested that the San Miao may have originally numbered among the Tung Yi before they were expelled because of their Identification with Ch'ih Yu.”

Yog li ua li cas rau cov Tung Yi Kab li kev cai tom qab lawm?

“However, Tung Yi culture was itself gradually displaced by, or evolved into, late Shandong Lungshan and thus came to differ significantly from the San Miao's Latter manifestation as Shih-Chia-Ho, inclining the former to identify more with the Hsia even though they had to forcefully oppose Hsia domination attempts. Furthermore, although the Tung Yi no longer support the San Miao, they remained a significant poer through out the Hsia dynasty, and even the Shang felt compelled not just to neutralized them before attacking Chieh, the last Hsia monarch, but also to gain their support.”

Peb pom tau tias Hmoob no muaj zog npaum li cas, Hmoob tsis hloov nyob rau suav teb suav chaw. Hmoob teb Hmoob chaw raug Suav muab lawm tiam sis Hmoob tseem muaj zog tshaj Suav thiab yog Hmoob sib koom tes xwb ces Hmoob yeej txeeb tau rov qab tiam sis li tau hais Hmoob pheej nyiam nyiam nom ua ces Hmoob pheej raug Suav muab ntxias kom rov tua Hmoob dua yog li Hmoob thiaj li poob qab lawm ntau.



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Offline CheejSiav

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Re: Dej Dab
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2011, 04:03:20 PM »
Ok, CheejSiav, yog kuv ncu tsi yuam ke nua ces Korean teev hawm Fuab Tais Chi Yu hab laiv yom puas yog? Yog tas yog nua, yog ua caag es Korean ho teev hawm nwg hab? Koj/leej twg sim qha tsua peb seb yog le caag tag?



Kuv mam rov los piav txog cov kaus lim, vim kuv tsis muaj sij hawm tam sim no.
Sib ntsib dua



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Offline Love2Kiss

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Re: Dej Dab
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2011, 07:05:02 PM »
Kuv mam rov los piav txog cov kaus lim, vim kuv tsis muaj sij hawm tam sim no.
Sib ntsib dua

CheejSiav, if you don't mind, can you talk about this issue at the 'Keeb Kwm Moob - Hmong History'?




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Offline CheejSiav

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Re: Dej Dab
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2011, 06:36:51 PM »
Kaus lim, los rau ntawm kuv tau tshawb fawb.
Hmoob muaj keeb kwm nrog kaus lim thiab. Yav thaum Hmoob muaj Hmoob txuj Hmoob ci Hmoob teej Hmoob tug thiab Hmoob muaj Hmoob kab li kev cai khiav Mongolia los. Thaum khiav los txog Hmoob tsis kam Hmoob tej tub ntxhais mus yuav luag haiv neeg xws li Suav, pub thawj, mab thiab lwm yam. Lub sij hawm no Hmoob huaj vam heev thiab sawv daws ntsia Hmoob yam li huab tais thiab ntxhais nom xwb. Tiam sis cov nyob tib txhij nrog Hmoob ces yog Suav ntag. Suav thiab Hmoob muaj kev sib cov nyom yibvim qhov teeb meem Hmoob tsis pub Hmoob tub ntxhais yuav Suav tej Tub ntxhais xwb los mas. Tiam sis muaj ib hnub Hmoob tus ntxhais mus nyiam tau ib tug neeg txawv, nws tsis yog neeg Suav tsis yog neeg pub thawj thiab...qhov no tsis tseem tsis tau tshawb fawb meej meej tias nws yog haiv neeg dabtsi tiam sis Hmoob tus ntxhais no ho mus nyiam nws ces Hmoob tus Huab tais thiaj li tso cai rau nws mus yuav tus tub ntawd. Hmoob tus ntxhais ntawd hu ua NKauj Hmoob xeem lis. Thaum nkawd tau sib yuav lawm nkawd tau khiav mus rau sab hnub tuaj sab ntug dej. Tom qab ntau ntau Xyoo nkawd tau muaj tub ki coob coob puv teb. Thaum Hmoob Huaj Vam mus txog rau nkawd ciam teb Hmoob nug txog lawv caj ces ua cas ho Yog tus Ntxhais Nkauj Lis no tiag. Tos peb Hmoob thiaj li xub muaj npe hu Kaus Lim ua ntej muaj npe hu Yiv Pooj (Yiv Pooj no Hmoob khiav los rau Thaib xwb mam muaj tshwm sim) tiam sis Kaus Lim yog muab hais raws tus ntxhais Nkauj Lis ntawd lub ntag.
Kuv tau nrog ib tug Kaus Lim tuaj Kaus lim teb tham thiab, nws hais tias Hmoob yog lawv Poj Koob txwv Koob vim nyob rau Kaus lim teb Kaus lim tseem ua kev dab kev qhua thiab nws yog yam loj tshaj txhua yam ntseeg nyob rau Kaus lim teb. Yog li peb pom lawm tias Kaus lim yog Hmoob ib pab kwv tij xwb!

Yog nej muaj lus nug sau tau.



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Offline CheejSiav

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Re: Dej Dab
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2011, 03:59:40 PM »
Nej puas muaj leej twg paub dab tsi txog "Xyab Kab Yeeb"?



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