The Dying Hmong Culture

[Sentinel_Li]

Why do we even consider it dying?  Culture doesn't die as long as the people are still live and well....it can only be converted/change to another form.  All cultures change throughout the era and are never the same. 

[Peachy Fish]

Then it's your fault for not using ur critical thinking.

Incorrect, it's your fault for quoting and using "you", but I don't want to argue w/you on this anymore under HmongPerson's thread. If you still feel like arguing, make a new thread and I'll go argue w/you there.

[TheAfterLife]

Why do we even consider it dying?  Culture doesn't die as long as the people are still live and well....it can only be converted/change to another form.  All cultures change throughout the era and are never the same. 

In fact, in the culture ground, it's relativism that rules the culture, not the foundation of morality.

[DonJuan]

there's a saying in hmong that what you hate the most you will get, maybe you will become a shaman? let's hope so, so your brain will be functional

it's not the culture that's dying, it's the young people dying from the culture.

Finally someone who sees the light. 

[hmongperson]

Can we stop trying to comparing religion. Comparing religion is like comparing Pepsi and Coke. The day we come to a conclusion there, then we can compare religion.

[DonJuan]

I accept the Hmong dances and singing, but no Shaman and no superstition medicine from Hmong folks because that stuff doesn't really work when it comes into science. If you really think I misinformed, then what has shamanism done for the community?

1. They don't help the world
2. Backward religion like the Ching Dynasty
3. It should be diminish forever

If someone could prove to me that Shamanism has some balls to defend themselve in a religion Supreme Court case and they have some evidence to prove that Shamanism is true, then I will like to believe. Moreover, I will take all of those words that I said about it will be taken away from you guys (I will take back what I said something mean towards to Shamanism). However, if it fails to prove anything on the court ground religion where we use Atheism vs. Shamanism, Muslim vs. Shamanism, and Christianity vs Shamanism, then you will have to force yourself to let go of that culture religion and follow the new ideas like Democracy.

If one shall not follow the new ideas to survive, then they shall be perish like how Darwin says it in his book. We need to adapt...period!

 

[TheAfterLife]

Donny, if you think I am crazy, then how come I don't see a lot of gentiles to worship our religion only? I see Christians but not Hmong shaman.

Can u tell me why the world choose Christianity over Shamanism?

[passingby#2]

HmongKnight has the best and probably most accurate explanation of "why our Hmong culture/rituals/traditions are dying..."   It's really that simple people, kids grow up, go away for college, get jobs in a different state, get married and come 25 don't remember what it's like to have a shaman ceremony...... true story, if you were to tell me I'd have to host a shaman party, I'd cry.    

No need for all these fancy explanations because we all know in our hearts why our culture is dying....

[8v10un30sun]

True. I remember asking my dad once if I could be a MK even though I'm a girl. I said it'll be easy for me to learn since he's one himself, so he could just teach me, but he laughed and told me no.

To be a MK and etc... it's like getting a four year degree.  That's the level of committment.  Hmong ceremonies and rituals are SO COMPLEX...it's like a negotiation dance.  Most people just learn a tidbit or learn enough to serve the community.  Very few are true masters to one role (e.g. MK) and even fewer know the entire space.  To know the entire space you have to study as a young teenager.  Then you also learn as you travel and learn from others doing what you are doing.  It's such a scholarly and lifetime calling if you ask me.

The culture is dying because the time require is too much and the donation no longer give sufficient.  It is why I've said, if the people who practice the traditions/religon truly love their traditions and religon put their money were their mouth is.  However, I've yet to see this come.

[Xyooj96]

honestly dude/dudess, you need to know who you are. become what you are not, you seem so lost. change for the sake of itself, it's moronic to even do it.

hmong culture is not dying, it's transforming. look at the bride price example.

I accept the Hmong dances and singing, but no Shaman and no superstition medicine from Hmong folks because that stuff doesn't really work when it comes into science. If you really think I misinformed, then what has shamanism done for the community?

1. They don't help the world
2. Backward religion like the Ching Dynasty
3. It should be diminish forever

If someone could prove to me that Shamanism has some balls to defend themselve in a religion Supreme Court case and they have some evidence to prove that Shamanism is true, then I will like to believe. Moreover, I will take all of those words that I said about it will be taken away from you guys (I will take back what I said something mean towards to Shamanism). However, if it fails to prove anything on the court ground religion where we use Atheism vs. Shamanism, Muslim vs. Shamanism, and Christianity vs Shamanism, then you will have to force yourself to let go of that culture religion and follow the new ideas like Democracy.

If one shall not follow the new ideas to survive, then they shall be perish like how Darwin says it in his book. We need to adapt...period!

[mrhmoobportland]

I feel there are many reason for the death/dying/evolution of the Hmong culture, which I will list below:

• Assimilation into the Dominant Culture - Where ever we go, be it China, Laos, Thailand, Vietnam, Burma, the United States, France, French Guiana, the U.K., Australia, Germany, or anywhere else in the world, we find ourselves presented with an ultimatum:  join us, resistance is futile.  Older generations tend to resist the temptation, but younger, more progressive individuals are forced to adapt the dominant culture in order to fit in.  This leads to children whom don't speak a lick of Hmong and yell back at their parents because, "I can't muthafawken understand you, beeitch!"  I've seen it firsthand with people I know, and I'm having an uphill struggle teaching my kids Hmong.  They understand, but have no interest and are embarassed to talk back.  They are young now so I can still convince them to try, but when they are 15+, they will rebel and this is when being Hmong takes a backseat to being cool.  I am no FOB in the sense of that deragotory term.  I was born in a refugee camp, but lived 99% of my life in the United States, so I speak and write Hmong and English better than a majority of people I encounter, including both Hmong and white people.  I was the lucky first generation, born at the right time to be in a position to learn both cultures and master both languages.  Unfortunately, all recent and current generations moving forward are not.  This is an uphill battle I don't think we will win, I'm sad to say.
• Lack of Government Support and Protection - the United States does little to encourage minority cultures from becoming extinguished.  While they try to accommodate and give honorable mention, there is no substantial investments geared at retaining the identity (ie. no money spent on creating Hmong schools, etc.).  At least in China, the Hmong/Miao are nationally recognized ethnic minority and are given autonomy to some degree, where they are able to do business in their native tongue and have schools in their native tongue.  Mandarin is still required to be taught in schools and used for government business.  The opportunities of cultural tourism and government incentives to protect Hmong/Miao villages and lifestyle are another reason why our less fortunate relatives in the motherland are more likely to retain their identity than we are.  We have no such luck in the United States, and I'm afraid for most of the world.
• Middle Class Phenomena - Hmong have always been a family based, community driven society.  In the West, we lack the connectivity, the closeness, the dependencies we once had upon on another.  We are all too busy working our middle-class lifestyles, for those whom work, so our children are being left at home with little guidance.  Too much Western TV, time spent in the Western classrooms, and having friends whom speak the dominant Western language means chidlren are given little incentive to learn their own language or culture.  Why waste time learning it if you're not ever going to need it?  And even Hmong in the motherland and Laos, Thailand, and Vietnam are facing similar difficulties, as they go off into their factory or farm jobs to earn a living.  The only exception are probably the extremely remote, protected villages in China, the motherland.
• Evolution - Hmong culture has evolved over time and continues to change.  This is no joke.  Whether the issue is religion, cultural activities, dress, or language, Hmong evolution is taking its course and we can't stop it.  The easiest example is the Hmong/Miao question.  Most of us know that Hmong and Miao are related, but we've diverged at some point in history.  The fact that our customs, dress, and language have changed over time is proof of ongoing evolution.  You can't dispute that.  The next example is the chopstick:  only mostly Hmong in China and Vietnam still use it.  More recently, you can see examples of this divergence in the customs of Hmong in each country respective to other host countries -- no two are exactly alike.  For example, Hmong in the West seem to have this tendency to power wh0re and fight over who will handle the New Year business, so some years the big cities will host multiple New Year locations ran by different factions with varying interests.  Traditionally, there is only one location, one event for each city.  The whole point of a New Year is to "Tsa Hauv Toj" and pay respect to the dead war heroes, in addition to welcoming the incoming year.  However, this point has been lost and nowadays it's all about money and influence.  There's nothing we can do to stop cultural evolution.  Eventually, Hmong will split into different groups again and there will be no single Hmong group, just as there is no single Miao group (Hmong is a sub-group of the Western Miao ethnic designation).  The only way to stop this is to have a damned country, but I don't see that happening ever again.

[freebird]

We have no one to blame but ourselves for not learning our ways so that we can pass on the knowledge through generations; and we should have no excuse either.

[TheAfterLife]

We have no one to blame but ourselves for not learning our ways so that we can pass on the knowledge through generations; and we should have no excuse either.

Just let it die. Pho get it dude!