Why Hmong men and ghosts used to interact

[DonJuan]

Keep in mind, this is my truth only.  For you, this is just information or details from a coucou guy however you will imagine it.
As I always say, the truth is like a math equation.  I can give you the correct solution, but because of the many answers out there, things can get confusing.  Therefore, as long as you are unable to understand the solution given in the math equation itself, someone else in a robe with many followers can easily entice their answer into you.  Men do not look for the truth; they seek the comfort and acceptance of their fellow men.  In a nutshell:
 
Three awareness or parallel worlds exist:
first one is physical (flesh, universe, earth etc.)-this is governed by reason, logic
second is pure energy-this is governed by “know”, not by reason, logic.
third  is where you go when you die-this is where the source of all is.

To see only with the eyes is a waste, the wonders of the worlds rests in when one sees pure energy that makes up all the worlds.
 
As Hmong legends used to say, the physical and pure energy had a much more intimate relationship in the dawn of time.  The first is actually a small function of the second and the physical can learn about pure energy, and manipulate it at their likings.  But modern men nowadays use logic and reasoning and because of that, they’ve lost that relationship.

Men separated themselves because they wanted the knowledge to control the second realm. They used reason and logic. In doing so, they lost it. There is some similiarities with the tree of knowledge.

[shesaid]

like the old folks say.... neej thiab dab nyob sib xyaws

[Reporter]

Keep in mind, this is my truth only.  For you, this is just information or details from a coucou guy however you will imagine it.
As I always say, the truth is like a math equation.  I can give you the correct solution, but because of the many answers out there, things can get confusing.  Therefore, as long as you are unable to understand the solution given in the math equation itself, someone else in a robe with many followers can easily entice their answer into you.  Men do not look for the truth; they seek the comfort and acceptance of their fellow men.  In a nutshell:
 
Three awareness or parallel worlds exist:
first one is physical (flesh, universe, earth etc.)-this is governed by reason, logic
second is pure energy-this is governed by “know”, not by reason, logic.
third  is where you go when you die-this is where the source of all is.

To see only with the eyes is a waste, the wonders of the worlds rests in when one sees pure energy that makes up all the worlds.
 
As Hmong legends use to say, the physical and pure energy had a much more intimate relationship in the dawn of time.  The first is actually a small function of the second and the physical can learn about pure energy, and manipulate it at their likings.  But modern men nowadays use logic and reasoning and because of that, they’ve lost that relationship.

Men separated themselves because they wanted the knowledge to control the second realm. They used reason and logic. In doing so, they lost it. There is some similiarities with the tree of knowledge.

Thanks.

A spirit told me that I live very far from the spiritual world now but that I will return to it sometimes in the future.

[DonJuan]

Yes. Indeed.
 While most men have their back turned away from the spirit, which itself is a residue of the source of all from the third realm, the spirit crosses their paths every day. Men are too busy in their worldly matters, too caught up in their self-importance to notice its presence. Just like Death, always present even when its lights are turned off, it stands an arm away behind to the left.
And men get surprised and shocked when Death suddenly flashes its blinding lights.  Curse they will to the spirit. But the spirit has given signs, always. Men were too busy with their trivial knowlege, their own fears and their own self pity.

 Life in the flesh, men celebrate until death strikes. Worldly knowledge and celebrations will terminate with it and be taken back by the creator of all things.

But if one quiets down, he will understand what the eyes see is void. One will then see the spirit, always leading the path. And if one follows the path. That knowledge is power because when one dies, that knowledge remains with him.

Therefore, if it has been said that you live very far away from the spiritual world, it says unto you that you cling and focus only in the worldly matters of the flesh.

[yaweh]

Interesting point about "neej thiab dab nyob uake" at one time....person ally, the old folks used "paj lus" to explain certain things...and over time cov pajlus no are taken literally lawm xwb.  the word "dab" to me, it seems-from stories, legends, rituals, etc--are nothing more than "nonmong" or the "enemies."

legend has it that because of neej thiab dab were together, "niam laj sab and txiv sab sua" muab vab tshaus tooj coj los tshau, to separate neej thiab dab.  keep in mind that "vab" in the old days refers to the "shield" used in battles...this same "vab" is the same "vab" in modern day "kauj vab kauj lev" during tso plig.  anyway, when the old folks say "muab vab tshau tooj coj los tshau dab"...i think they meant there was a war using advance weaponry (at that time) to finish of the dab (enemies).

however, over time, the enemies discovered 'neej (moob)" and their weapons...or in the language of screcy...NQAIJ QHUAV LUAJ TXAA NQAJ HLAU (THIS IS NOTHING MORE THAN THE METAL ARMOR THAT WAS USED DURING WAR.  legend also implies that "dab muab dab nqaij ciab zib txha plaub maj" cov lov paub neej "nqaij qhuav luaj txha nqaj hlau..."  meaning that the enemies discovered or stole man's (moob) metal technology.  and eventually,  the old folks even went on to say "if you were to kill dab (with armor), you would use QUAV QAIB DUB PLEEV NTAAJ FUAB TXhib.."  moob, i believe, were the first to discover gun powder...the way to make gun powder is to burn of "lemon grass trees" (fuab txib)" and grind the burnt wood into black powder..and the "pleev quav qaib" with it...quav qaib is a type of ignition element (whoever knows it please tell me what it is).  even today mong still have this technology.

so it seems, donjuan, teh word "neej and dab" living together is not to imply that neej and dab were living together, but i think it meant "moob and others" used to live together in peace.

yaweh

[DonJuan]

I agree that languages and time have changed the true meanings of many things. As much language syntaxes formulated by men for the first realm only are not sufficient in describing what true meaning of life is. This is why wise men seem to speak in riddles.  Not only for the listenner to come up to their own solution, but they are also limited by the words.

Thanks for more inputs.

I can only speak from the point of pure energy and match with little I have heard from the old folks.  :)And you seem to have much more knowledge when it comes to Hmong legends.

[yaweh]

on another more spiritual note, on what donjuan is talkig about, it is true that as man becomes more advanced, the relationship btween the two worlds is lost...specifi cally, when man gathers in large group (such as you typical city--LA, San Diego etc), this connection doesn't work.  I truly feel sorry for shamanism or even the bible god becasue they don't usually work (from my eyes).  it could be that man has diverged from the other world or it could be that the other world left us because we are not dependent upon them anymore.  it seems, this bond, is broken.

when in laos, we heard of stories--ghosts, spirits, savior etc--that seem to glorify our believes to the max.  in the US, NOTHING WORKS ANYMORE!  the Mien, who are known to have very powerful black magic, can't even kill a thug who regularly steals from them.  Siv Yig can't seem to fix spiritual issues anymore, god can't help and/or doens't help you anymore--and over time, we are doing these rituals/prayers not because we could get something in return, but we are doing it because it has become a tradition.....

HOWEVER, i must warn you...if you guys go camping, or up to a mountain..or passing through forest where there is very few people (even in the usa)...take good care of yourself...the se places, the spirits (god, dab, xeeb tebchaw, timtswv etc) still dwell...and if you "offended" them, they will take action...so watch your manners, mouth, words, and personality.  this is why people such as myself, still laig when eating in the forest...or going through a forest.  in my opinion, there is no such thing as evil anyway...whate ver these things are doing to you, you must have offended them in some way....

fyi:  in america, in the appalachian mountains...th ere is a protector of the land (of the spirit world)...they call it THE DEVIL MONKEY..this same devil monkey is the same "PHIMNYUVAIM" THAT MONG has always been talking about in the mountains of Laos.  so you see, in a civilized society, the connection of the two world seems dead, but in the forest, that bond still exist....so be careful when you're there...

yaweh

[Moospej]

Neej thiab Dad nyob uake is referring to the 2nd creation of life uas yog thaum 3 tug 70 xyoo.  Txoj cai "1 tsug 13 hnub" thiab tshwm sim los.

Yaweh, Koj puas ntseeg Hmoob cov khaws koob?

[yaweh]

lets not get into men having babies..that's too much to swallow,  ludricrous in a way, similar to jesus going up to heaven after ressurection, its jsut too much to swallow.

but to answer your question....no, kuv tsi ntseeg khawv koob...but i do believe in "beautiful" words to sooth the spirit.  in modern time, we call this "therapy" or "counseling."  to me, a pray, khawvkoob, hu plig, uaneeb, is nothing more than ancient spiritual therapy.

yaweh

[Moospej]

Do you know how to speak the "Beautiful" words to sooth the spirit?

[yaweh]

the word "khawv koob" is a very broad word....and most people do not realize it..but the "khawv koob" we all think about ces yog ua some form of "magic miracle" such as to reconnect bones, stops bleeding, to perform exorcise...

however, on the broader term, things such as nkauj neeb, hu plig, and even a "prayer" is consider khawvkoob.  in essence, the word "khawv" is chinese = mouth/tongue and koob ces koj yeej paub....

so to asnwre yoru qeustion, yes kuv paub khawvkoob mas.

yaweh

[DonJuan]

You are accurate in your observation regarding men not “seeing” in big cities or in large groups.  An actual phenomenon causes such a thing to take place.  For a shaman, men are luminous beings; this is how shaman can do readings by looking at the glow: colors and intensities change due to illnesses, stress, or depressions.
In the luminous being, a switch exists (Hmong call it a name I cannot spell).  The switch is complex to turn at will, but can be easier to be turned on when logic and reason or worldly materials are not present.  This explains your statement.  However, the switch can also turn on by accident like high fever, stress, sudden fear, someone hit by lighting etc.  When the switch is on, the person will feel the other side, or being watched, or can tell the future. Usually though, the affect does not last long as the switch will close again.  This also explains why people tend to see ghosts more at night than daytime because at night, worldly materials are not as easy to recognize making the switch easier to turn on.
 
Powerful is subjective.  Many cultures nowadays have lost much of the knowledge.  The issue is many of those cultures have come to believe they are invincible because of their connection to “inorganic beings”, but not so.  A powerful in this context is someone who can manipulate pure energy to create whatever he/she wants or needs.  If the person’s ego is gone, he/she will not need anything even though he/she can get everything he/she wanted.  He/she therefore can choose to punish the thief so the thief can learn or let things be.
Black magic comes from the manipulation of energy but when the ego is strong and present.
 
 
As far as “hu plig”, it is done for two different reasons: one is when the luminosity of the being is too affected by stress, or illnesses etc.   The second one is due to depression. In the case of depression, it is not only therapeutic but also it fixes the luminosity.
 
Everything affects the luminosity dependent on the individual, food, songs, smell, colors etc.

[population1]

but for those  men who have not lost touch of it, keep it up and get the ball rolling. hell, we live in an age of who knows what?

[DonJuan]

Inorganic beings come because they want to do an energy exchange with men. Men and inorganic beings get energy boost from such arrangement.  Men do not possess the energy capable to make them see because they worry, have emotions, waste their energy on trivial things. But with the new arrangement, men become shaman and see pure energy.

With hmong, the culture focuses too much on inorganic beings and the culture's trust in them is too deliberate. While it is an honor and luck for a person to get picked by chance or due to the spirit, the reliance on inorganic beings must be separated more. They are beings like us except we are from the first realm and they are from the second, though they hold much more knowledge and live on much longer.

Hmong shaman also do not turned what they see into knowledge that can be used in day to day life. The energy flow that control all things flow a certain direction only. It is maintained by the spirit.  There is no grey area at all. By understanding the flow, one comes to understand the truth and purpose in life.

This is why I state that shamanism is the study of pure energy. Religions take tiny parts of shamanism and make it their own while scorning the very thing they took it from.

Next is steps of when a shaman sees pure energy.

[Moospej]

I'm sure what we call "spirits" are simply beings of pure energy.

Even this chick who studied physics agrees: [sub]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Brennan[/sub]

It's only a matter of time science catches up, maybe not today but someday. They'll make sense of all this.

Spirits and energy are two different thing.  Just because they both have the same common form don't mean that they are the same.

Is like saying that the moon and the sun are the same because both circle.