Author Topic: Keynes, Mises and Marx  (Read 411 times)

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Offline 8v10un30sun

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Keynes, Mises and Marx
« on: December 27, 2011, 11:02:55 AM »
Your thoughts on these 3 systems of school.



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Offline Reporter

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Re: Keynes, Mises and Marx
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2011, 10:13:08 PM »
I like them. But I still think each only applies to their respective local communities. lol

Summarize them for us before we discuss them more. I don't want to re-read my freshman college books on them. Oh, wait, that was sophomore college books.



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Offline Xyooj96

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Re: Keynes, Mises and Marx
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2011, 03:58:00 PM »
didn't take much econ in schooling, but if memories still working

keynes = mixed economy, which means private and public (government) working together
mises = consumer economy, which means the consumers drive the economy
marx = government control economy, which means ownership of productions are with the government

both keynes and mises are for a capitalistic society.



I like them. But I still think each only applies to their respective local communities. lol

Summarize them for us before we discuss them more. I don't want to re-read my freshman college books on them. Oh, wait, that was sophomore college books.



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Re: Keynes, Mises and Marx
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2011, 05:52:09 PM »
didn't take much econ in schooling, but if memories still working

keynes = mixed economy, which means private and public (government) working together
mises = consumer economy, which means the consumers drive the economy
marx = government control economy, which means ownership of productions are with the government

both keynes and mises are for a capitalistic society.




Thanks.

A system where the people can be free to capitalize on their potentials while monitored and organized by a legal system of fairness is the best!

Marx is a Communist. Keynes is somewhat in between a free enterprise, free capitalistic society and that of a total Communist, socialist system. So, I like Mises' idea more then.



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Offline 8v10un30sun

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Re: Keynes, Mises and Marx
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2011, 08:29:34 PM »
...


« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 08:45:21 PM by 8v10un30sun »

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Offline Xyooj96

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Re: Keynes, Mises and Marx
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2011, 04:11:56 PM »
mises and marx are on opposite end.

if human beings are fair, either system would work. obviously not the case, so a system of regulations to be in place so that human beings do not end up extinction of themselves in this world.

i see keynes as a system of control-growth or control-decay, thus a good and fair regulator is a must for survival.


Thanks.

A system where the people can be free to capitalize on their potentials while monitored and organized by a legal system of fairness is the best!

Marx is a Communist. Keynes is somewhat in between a free enterprise, free capitalistic society and that of a total Communist, socialist system. So, I like Mises' idea more then.



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Offline 8v10un30sun

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Re: Keynes, Mises and Marx
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2012, 11:32:23 AM »
I really don't give a flipping care about either of the three systems.  Whichever system that is used better serve the people and be for the people to promote prosperity and civic order.  With that said, my posting into this topic really has to do with my continual enjoyment on history and specifically the great depression in relationship to our current economic conditions.  I want to direct us to a quote from WIKI and a few other sources including what is consider a newer approach called "New classical approach."  I want to loosely and I use the term loosely because it is essentially that, that as the CEO wage goes up so does the capitalist wage and the working wage goes down, the disparity between the have and have not whether it is a communist system or a capitalist system creates tension between the rulilng class and the working class.  You can call the ruling class capitalist in a capitalistic society and the working class as common wealth.  Likewise for marxist system like communism, the ruling class are government official and the working class are the working class.  Regardless, FAIRNESS is at play here so when fairness is not inbound people stop working hard, and sometimes people purposely sabatoge...pro duction goes down, the cost to do business goes up, the cost rises to a level that nobody can afford and a death spiral begins.

Take a look at WIKI on the great depression.  A quote there but the full article is here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression

Take a look at CEO pay.  Notice how the disparity of wealth being share results in a systemic breakdown?  This is not mathematics or economics...Th is is hunter and gathering 101 - ANTHROPOLOGY.
http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/paywatch/

Quote
Current theories may be broadly classified into two main points of view and several heterodox points of view. First, there are demand-driven theories, most importantly Keynesian economics, but also including those who point to the breakdown of international trade, and Institutional economists who point to underconsumpti on and over-investment (causing an economic bubble), malfeasance by bankers and industrialists, or incompetence by government officials. The consensus among demand-driven theories is that a large-scale loss of confidence led to a sudden reduction in consumption and investment spending. Once panic and deflation set in, many people believed they could avoid further losses by keeping clear of the markets. Holding money became profitable as prices dropped lower and a given amount of money bought ever more goods, exacerbating the drop in demand.

Secondly, there are the monetarists, who believe that the Great Depression started as an ordinary recession, but that significant policy mistakes by monetary authorities (especially the Federal Reserve), caused a shrinking of the money supply which greatly exacerbated the economic situation, causing a recession to descend into the Great Depression. Related to this explanation are those who point to debt deflation causing those who borrow to owe ever more in real terms.

Lastly, there are various heterodox theories that downplay or reject the explanations of the Keynesians and monetarists. For example, some new classical macroeconomist s have argued that various labor market policies imposed at the start caused the length and severity of the Great Depression. The Austrian school of economics focuses on the macroeconomic effects of money supply, and how central banking decisions can lead to over-investment (economic bubble).




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There are two things which cannot be attacked in front: ignorance and narrow-mindedness. They can only be shaken by the simple development of the contrary qualities. They will not bear discussion.  - Lord Acton

Offline 8v10un30sun

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Re: Keynes, Mises and Marx
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2012, 06:21:53 PM »
More interesting reads.  Some guy actually did a study on human behavior...I wish he had gone deeper into our primal and linked to this...I believe I read such a study a year or two ago, on how risk aversion is related to addiction or skitso or some other disease.

Elliot Wave Principles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_wave_principle



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There are two things which cannot be attacked in front: ignorance and narrow-mindedness. They can only be shaken by the simple development of the contrary qualities. They will not bear discussion.  - Lord Acton

Offline Xyooj96

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Re: Keynes, Mises and Marx
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2012, 03:52:08 PM »
8V, the world is not perfect. be the change for it to be?  ;D

and don't be like that SW poster on here, that the world has everything against him :D
hmm....haven't seen him posting in here for awhile

a hmong OG once said to someone who's always talking about his talents that "if you think you're so smart, why are you work for him. why isn't he working for you?". this ought to be a real "talk-stopper" for those who's always self-promoting.  O0

I really don't give a flipping care about either of the three systems.  Whichever system that is used better serve the people and be for the people to promote prosperity and civic order.  With that said, my posting into this topic really has to do with my continual enjoyment on history and specifically the great depression in relationship to our current economic conditions.  I want to direct us to a quote from WIKI and a few other sources including what is consider a newer approach called "New classical approach."  I want to loosely and I use the term loosely because it is essentially that, that as the CEO wage goes up so does the capitalist wage and the working wage goes down, the disparity between the have and have not whether it is a communist system or a capitalist system creates tension between the rulilng class and the working class.  You can call the ruling class capitalist in a capitalistic society and the working class as common wealth.  Likewise for marxist system like communism, the ruling class are government official and the working class are the working class.  Regardless, FAIRNESS is at play here so when fairness is not inbound people stop working hard, and sometimes people purposely sabatoge...pro duction goes down, the cost to do business goes up, the cost rises to a level that nobody can afford and a death spiral begins.

Take a look at WIKI on the great depression.  A quote there but the full article is here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression

Take a look at CEO pay.  Notice how the disparity of wealth being share results in a systemic breakdown?  This is not mathematics or economics...Th is is hunter and gathering 101 - ANTHROPOLOGY.
http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/paywatch/




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Offline 8v10un30sun

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Re: Keynes, Mises and Marx
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2012, 07:54:54 PM »
Yet another napolean war...


8V, the world is not perfect. be the change for it to be?  ;D

and don't be like that SW poster on here, that the world has everything against him :D
hmm....haven't seen him posting in here for awhile

a hmong OG once said to someone who's always talking about his talents that "if you think you're so smart, why are you work for him. why isn't he working for you?". this ought to be a real "talk-stopper" for those who's always self-promoting.  O0



« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 08:41:52 PM by 8v10un30sun »

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There are two things which cannot be attacked in front: ignorance and narrow-mindedness. They can only be shaken by the simple development of the contrary qualities. They will not bear discussion.  - Lord Acton

Offline Xyooj96

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Re: Keynes, Mises and Marx
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2012, 11:47:29 PM »
Yet another napolean war...

some wars are necessary to determine the superior mean.

hmmm...if bonaparte didn't think so highly of himself then, perhaps the world would be speaking french now  :P :P



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