Author Topic: Religious employees of a church cannot sue for employment discrimination.  (Read 250 times)

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Offline tetrapod

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WASHINGTON — In a groundbreaking case, the Supreme Court today held for the first time that religious employees of a church cannot sue for employment discrimination .

But the court’s unanimous decision in a case from Michigan did not specify the distinction between a secular employee, who can take advantage of the government’s protection from discrimination and retaliation, and a religious employee, who can’t.

http://www.freep.com/article/20120111/NEWS02/120111034/Supreme-Court-Woman-can-t-sue-over-firing-from-Redford-church



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Offline tetrapod

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So in other words they can choose to hire only white religious employees?

I'm not surprised nor do I care.

Religion and politics, the two most controversial topics.

I would rather agree to disagree with them than to hear their childish arguments.

No, it is not fair if they get government funding and tax breaks.



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Offline 8v10un30sun

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No, it is not fair if they get government funding and tax breaks.

Okay, so establish that fact when given seperation of church and state.



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There are two things which cannot be attacked in front: ignorance and narrow-mindedness. They can only be shaken by the simple development of the contrary qualities. They will not bear discussion.  - Lord Acton

Offline tetrapod

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Okay, so establish that fact when given seperation of church and state.

Is this relevant?



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Offline 8v10un30sun

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Is this relevant?

In fact that is the crux of the case.  Without it, then your argument fails.  The government have no right in saying what the Church can do and likewise.



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There are two things which cannot be attacked in front: ignorance and narrow-mindedness. They can only be shaken by the simple development of the contrary qualities. They will not bear discussion.  - Lord Acton

Offline tetrapod

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In fact that is the crux of the case.  Without it, then your argument fails.  The government have no right in saying what the Church can do and likewise.

I see.  So, what happened if Pepsi discriminates someone because of their gender? 



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Offline 8v10un30sun

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I see.  So, what happened if Pepsi discriminates someone because of their gender?  

Again, the CHURCH... ;)  

Pepsi???  Not the CHURCH.



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There are two things which cannot be attacked in front: ignorance and narrow-mindedness. They can only be shaken by the simple development of the contrary qualities. They will not bear discussion.  - Lord Acton

Offline tetrapod

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Again, the CHURCH... ;)  

Pepsi???  Not the CHURCH.

Religious organization has special protection while other private organization has none?




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Offline 8v10un30sun

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Religious organization has special protection while other private organization has none?

 ;D ;D ;D  YES!  I know...sounds silly.   ;D ;D ;D

Want to know why?  If the government starts telling the church what to do then the government will soon run the church...YIKES ...That is greater evil of the two you might say.

1st admendment.  ;)



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There are two things which cannot be attacked in front: ignorance and narrow-mindedness. They can only be shaken by the simple development of the contrary qualities. They will not bear discussion.  - Lord Acton

Offline tetrapod

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;D ;D ;D  YES!  I know...sounds silly.   ;D ;D ;D

Want to know why?  If the government starts telling the church what to do then the government will soon run the church...YIKES ...That is greater evil of the two you might say.

1st admendment.  ;)

Is the government running Pepsi by making it illegal for Pepsi to discriminate employee? 



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Offline 8v10un30sun

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Re: Religious employees of a church cannot sue for employment discrimination.
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2012, 08:33:20 PM »
Is the government running Pepsi by making it illegal for Pepsi to discriminate employee?  


Again, 1st amendment vs EEO laws...I think 1st amendment wins and I believe that is the ruling in your link.  Somebody has to weigh it all out and at the end of the day, 1st amendment always win.


EDIT:
The power of GOOGLE!

I found it!  There is an exception in EEO laws for Religion.  :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny:
http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/religion.html#_Toc203359492

Quote
Courts have held, based on First Amendment constitutional considerations, that clergy members cannot bring claims under the federal employment discrimination laws, including Title VII, the Age Discrimination in Employment Act, the Equal Pay Act, and the Americans with Disabilities Act, because “[t]he relationship between an organized church and its ministers is its lifeblood.”[50] This “ministerial exception” comes not from the text of the statutes, but from the First Amendment principle that governmental regulation of church administration, including the appointment of clergy, impedes the free exercise of religion and constitutes impermissible government entanglement with church authority.[51] Thus, courts will not ordinarily consider whether a church’s employment decision concerning one of its ministers was based on discriminatory grounds, although some courts have allowed ministers to bring sexual harassment claims.[52]


« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 08:36:50 PM by 8v10un30sun »

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There are two things which cannot be attacked in front: ignorance and narrow-mindedness. They can only be shaken by the simple development of the contrary qualities. They will not bear discussion.  - Lord Acton

Offline tetrapod

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Re: Religious employees of a church cannot sue for employment discrimination.
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2012, 09:03:31 AM »
Again, 1st amendment vs EEO laws...I think 1st amendment wins and I believe that is the ruling in your link.  Somebody has to weigh it all out and at the end of the day, 1st amendment always win.


EDIT:
The power of GOOGLE!

I found it!  There is an exception in EEO laws for Religion.  :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny:
http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/religion.html#_Toc203359492



They take 1st amendment too far.  It's not even a question of 1st amendment but of fairness.   

It simply there to prevent church from church taking over the government and to prevent government from promote a particular religion.   It's not meant to protect church from what is illegal.  Another note on 1st amendment:  it is illegal for pharmacy to fire am employee because he is won't fill birth control prescription.   To a pharmacy, the guy who can't fill the prescription is as good as an unqualified employee because he is unable to do his duty.   



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non dormis

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Re: Religious employees of a church cannot sue for employment discrimination.
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2012, 01:38:49 PM »
Religious organization has special protection while other private organization has none?



that's how xians are. they biatch and complain like...oh, the liberal media hates us. we're being attacked, there's a war on christmas....b oohoo. help us.

but then they're like...oh, f*ck ya! the church can do whatever it wants. xains are just a bunch of whiners. sad but true.  O0



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