Who is to blame? Yang or Lee's friends

[Toua]

Take away gang and it sounds like self defense.

agreed..

i feel bad for Pheng though.. Wrong crowd...wrong time and place..

[Toua]

No, it's not. You and many others on this board (and sadly, most Hmong) don't understand what is legally allowable under self-defense. Self-defense, in the legal sense, is just "justifiable action" - was it ok to hurt/fight back/kill?, that is the key.

Someone punches you...
[justified]...you fight back, knock him out, and take off running.
[unjustified]...you tackle him down, he curls up, you continue to hit him. You gained control of situation and then became the aggressor.
[unjustified]...you take out a pocket knife and stab him. You used more force than necessary to stop the attack.

Someone brandishes a knife 10 feet in front of you, demands your wallet
[justified] There is no justified action other than to flee.
[unjustified]...you take out a gun and shoot. There is no life-threatening circumstance to allow use of deadly force.
[unjustified]...you take out a knife and lunge and stab him. There is no life-threatening circumstance and by attacking, you became the aggressor.

Someone points a gun at you from any distance with the intent to do harm...
Killing is justified because it is now a life-threatening situation.

Someone takes out a knife 20 feet away, and starts running full speed at you...
Killing is justified because it is now a life-threatening situation.



It's not knowledge of the law. I don't know any more about the law than any of you. It's called using your brain and not your emotions.

 

[primetime]

No, it's not. You and many others on this board (and sadly, most Hmong) don't understand what is legally allowable under self-defense. Self-defense, in the legal sense, is just "justifiable action" - was it ok to hurt/fight back/kill?, that is the key.

Someone punches you...
[justified]...you fight back, knock him out, and take off running.
[unjustified]...you tackle him down, he curls up, you continue to hit him. You gained control of situation and then became the aggressor.
[unjustified]...you take out a pocket knife and stab him. You used more force than necessary to stop the attack.

Someone brandishes a knife 10 feet in front of you, demands your wallet
[justified] There is no justified action other than to flee.
[unjustified]...you take out a gun and shoot. There is no life-threatening circumstance to allow use of deadly force.
[unjustified]...you take out a knife and lunge and stab him. There is no life-threatening circumstance and by attacking, you became the aggressor.

Someone points a gun at you from any distance with the intent to do harm...
Killing is justified because it is now a life-threatening situation.

Someone takes out a knife 20 feet away, and starts running full speed at you...
Killing is justified because it is now a life-threatening situation.



It's not knowledge of the law. I don't know any more about the law than any of you. It's called using your brain and not your emotions.

Ppl consider threats differently. I think you might be taking this emotionally cause they say this guy is a gangster.

Look at that one lady that her 911 call went viral. Some ppl were trying to break into her house so she waited by the door with guns.  She waited till they got in and killed one and held the other captive till police came. She's considered a hero. She easily could of just warned them she was home and they would of left but no, HERO.

Truth is, if you have money and connections this would be self defense. Just look at the cop that killed that boy that he said thought had a gun but was running away. Cop shot him and said he felt in danger, not guilty.

[Steven]

if you have money and connections this would be self defense.

I totally agree... Just that Sheboygan is a small town, you almost have to have money and be white. Let's just hope that the judge sees this for what it really is, self-defense.

[shina]

What would happen if Yang didn't shoot at them???  Will they kill him, his wife, and the minor in the car???  The FACT is, both groups had weapons, and it was a matter of who killed who first.  If Yang didn't run, he could claim self-defense.  But he ran off, so the self-defense theory is hard to sell.  And besides,  Moua, the main trouble maker in this case should get life in jail.  If he didn't start the trouble making, this would not have happened.

[HUNG TU LO]

Ppl consider threats differently. I think you might be taking this emotionally cause they say this guy is a gangster.

I meant controlling your emotions in the heat of someone talking shit to your face or punching you so that you don't end up doing something stupid - like shooting someone and going to jail just because he was at your car window talking shit. Or getting mad and tracking someone down using their IP and beating them down because they countered your weak argument  . Why are you throwing weak personal attacks at me? What, you can't come up with a valid counter argument?

It doesn't matter how you perceive a threat. After everything settles, you have to answer to the cops, the prosecutors, the court, the judge, and the jury. "I felt my life was threatened so I shot." is not going to cut it, especially when it gets to the DA. They don't give two sh-ts if your an Asian gang banger or a white surburban male with no crime history. They will prosecute you to the fullest extent.

Wisconsin's new Castle Doctrine signed into law just this past December protects Wisconsin residents so that they can use deadly force to protect themselves at home, at their workplace, or their motor vehicle. However, they must be threatened with death or great bodily injury. Guess what? Not one punch was thrown. There was an argument and then it immediately escalated into a shooting. That is not self-defense and the Castle Doctrine doesn't protect Yang. Trust me, the DA's office right now is laughing at how easy this case is.

Earlier, I stated that I don't know more about the law than any one else. I take that back. Some of you guys are as dumb as a rock! Seriously, what you perceive happened, what is happening, and what will happen is never the same as the other guy. This is why we have a legal system, idiots. This is so that someone doesn't yell across the room "I'm going to kill your whole family!!!" and the other guy doesn't shoot him and claim "Well, he said he was going to kill my family and I perceived that he would do so."




/end of discussion

I'm tired of embarrassing people and don't want anyone with low intelligence to get mad at me *cough* primetime

[HUNG TU LO]

Look at that one lady that her 911 call went viral. Some ppl were trying to break into her house so she waited by the door with guns.  She waited till they got in and killed one and held the other captive till police came.

And was this the case in Oklahoma not too long ago? OKLAHOMA. Their Castle Doctrine in that state allows them to use deadly force to PREVENT death and great bodily injury. Even still, you have to have good evidence to prove so that if Billy is mad at Jimmy, he can't say "Hey, come over for a beer!", and shoot him onsite and tell the police "HE WAS GONNA KILL ME AND MY KIDS AND I TOLD HIM TO LEAVE BUT HE KEPT TRYING TO BREAK IN!"

In this case, the evidence that protects the lady for using lethal force to PREVENT harm was the 911 call that was taped and heard around the nation. If she didn't call 911, trust me, that case would be more complicated and still be in the investigative phase.

Here in Minnesota and Wisconsin, you can't use lethal force to PREVENT death and great bodily injury, even in your own home. You can only use lethal force WHEN there is immediate and imminent threat of death or great bodily injury. That means if that same case in Oklahoma happened in Wisconsin, the 911 operator would have said "NO! Do not shoot them unless you see they have a gun!"

I researched that case up and down before you even knew it happened, buddy. And another thing: she isn't a hero. The captain that crash landed the jet on the Hudson and kept everyone alive is a hero. You're an idiot.

[primetime]

What would happen if Yang didn't shoot at them???  Will they kill him, his wife, and the minor in the car???  The FACT is, both groups had weapons, and it was a matter of who killed who first.  If Yang didn't run, he could claim self-defense.   But he ran off, so the self-defense theory is hard to sell.  And besides,  Moua, the main trouble maker in this case should get life in jail.  If he didn't start the trouble making, this would not have happened.

They could say he panicked cause he's a felon. Or if they recover the gun and most likely it's stolen, could say he knew that and that's why he left too.

Either way he's been labled a violent gangster so he'll be gone for a long time. It's not like he's going to hire a big time lawyer.

[Toua]

It's quite obvious, those guys who got shot underestimated the enemy. I am sure Kou yang(shooter) didn't planned on going to walmart to shoot some people. He was forced to. Not defending Kou. He is wrong, no doubt, but Moua could've saved a lot of trouble for not acting so tough. This is what acting tough gets you....

during life/death situations and fleeing is not an option, seconds count and i am sure Kou was thinking, "either me, my wife and kid or them..." Every human with a brain would've thought of the same exact thing.

all this could've been prevented. Stupid Moua's decision left one dead.. He should've been the one shot dead

[parana]

It's quite obvious, those guys who got shot underestimated the enemy. I am sure Kou yang(shooter) didn't planned on going to walmart to shoot some people. He was forced to. Not defending Kou. He is wrong, no doubt, but Moua could've saved a lot of trouble for not acting so tough. This is what acting tough gets you....

during life/death situations and fleeing is not an option, seconds count and i am sure Kou was thinking, "either me, my wife and kid or them..." Every human with a brain would've thought of the same exact thing.

all this could've been prevented. Stupid Moua's decision left one dead.. He should've been the one shot dead

I've said that these guys(victims) were not innocent as people portrayed them to be way before this comes up.  My prediction is right on target.

[iHmong]

Sometimes even walking away from situations like this means you are the bigger man.. I don't care if someone calls you out; words like pussy, b-tch, etc.. one thing could lead to another.  In this case, as in many Hmong cases, pride took over and a close friend died as a result.  People need to think twice before jumping in.. if Moua could've just walked away from this, the worst case, yang and Co. calls Moua and his whatever gang pussies.. I dont know about you but I rather be called a pussy and have a friend back.. oh and also a face without wounds.  I am pretty damn sure Moua will be back paving the streets looking for Yang's friends to shoot as retaliation.  This shit never ends..  quoting from Gangland (MOD) "We live by the gang and we die by the gang" - retarded!

[teamrocket]

Sometimes even walking away from situations like this means you are the bigger man.. I don't care if someone calls you out; words like pussy, b-tch, etc.. one thing could lead to another.  In this case, as in many Hmong cases, pride took over and a close friend died as a result.  People need to think twice before jumping in.. if Moua could've just walked away from this, the worst case, yang and Co. calls Moua and his whatever gang pussies.. I dont know about you but I rather be called a pussy and have a friend back.. oh and also a face without wounds.  I am pretty damn sure Moua will be back paving the streets looking for Yang's friends to shoot as retaliation.  This shit never ends..  quoting from Gangland (MOD) "We live by the gang and we die by the gang" - retarded!

Tat y they were snitching on gangland.....l ike moua was snitching on yang...

[Mr.New]

LIVE LIKE A GANGSTER DIE LIKE A GANGSTER

[Hmong_HERO]

So 2 idiotic hmong dudes died. Big deal. 2 less gangbangers off the street. End-o-story!. Just MHO.