Author Topic: Does God exist?  (Read 1255 times)

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Offline TheAfterLife

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Does God exist?
« on: January 19, 2012, 04:48:51 PM »
I don't believe the nothing since it doesn't exist. You know why? Because zero is something; therefore, nothing does not exist. If zero was destroyed, or something happen to it, then nothing would exist when zero is dead. When zero is dead, all of logic and illogic would not make any sense to the infinite. Not just logic or illogic will become something but infinite itself would be destroy to the infinite and infinite and infinite again. Therefore, the answer is undefined. If zero exist, then God exist. Because zero is the important number that sets time, matter, and space together in order to have life. For crying out loud, no one knows how the universe began nor do we have the evidence to prove evolution was right. No one knows for sure since it's full of estimation assumption. If you look up the definition of "estimate," it means to assume the hypothesis if its tested over and over again. For the Miller Experiment, it was denied by 21st century science since 21st century denies 1950 science. You know why? It's because we have better technology than before. For black holes, we don't know what that thing really is and it's like the invisible sun was just there in our galaxy map in the Hubble machine. But if there is a Mind that created everything, then I have some philosophical evidence to prove that he exist in an agreement to which we can agree.

Here are some agreements that we can conclude: "God exist in a timeless eternity: How does God acting before time began get around the problem of God's creation? There are two possible interpretation s of these verses. One is that God exists outside of time. Since we live in a universe of cause and effect, we naturally assume that this is the only way in which any kind of existence can function. However, the premise is false. Without the dimension of time, there is no cause and effect, and all things that could exist in such a realm would have no need of being caused, but would have always existed. Therefore, God has no need of being created, but, in fact, created the time dimension of our universe specifically for a reason - so that cause and effect would exist for us. However, since God created time, cause and effect would never apply to His existence."

God exist in multiple dimension: The second interpretation is that God exists in more than one dimension of time. Things that exist in one dimension of time are restricted to time's arrow and are confined to cause and effect. However, two dimensions of time form a plane of time, which has no beginning and no end and is not restricted to any single direction. A being that exists in at least two dimensions of time can travel anywhere in time and yet never had a beginning, since a plane of time has no starting point. Either interpretation leads one to the conclusion that God has no need of having been created.

Why can't the universe be eternal?: The idea that God can be eternal leads us to the idea that maybe the universe is eternal, and, therefore, God doesn't need to exist at all. Actually, this was the prevalent belief of atheists before the observational data of the 20th century strongly refuted the idea that the universe was eternal. This fact presented a big dilemma for atheists, since a non-eternal universe implied that it must have been caused. Maybe Genesis 1:1 was correct! Not to be dismayed by the facts, atheists have invented some metaphysical "science" that attempts to explain away the existence of God. Hence, most atheistic cosmologists believe that we see only the visible part of a much larger "multiverse" that randomly spews out universes with different physical parameters.2 Since there is no evidence supporting this idea (nor can there be, according to the laws of the universe), it is really just a substitute "god" for atheists. And, since this "god" is non-intelligent by definition, it requires a complex hypothesis, which would be ruled out if we use Occam's razor, which states that one should use the simplest logical explanation for any phenomenon. Purposeful intelligent design of the universe makes much more sense, especially based upon what we know about the design of the universe.

What does science say about time?: When Stephen Hawking, George Ellis, and Roger Penrose extended the equations for general relativity to include space and time, the results showed that time has a beginning - at the moment of creation (i.e., the Big Bang).3 In fact, if you examine university websites, you will find that many professors make such a claim - that the universe had a beginning and that this beginning marked the beginning of time (see The Universe is Not Eternal, But Had A Beginning). Such assertions support the Bible's claim that time began at the creation of the universe.

Conclusion


God has no need to have been created, since He exists either outside time (where cause and effect do not operate) or within multiple dimensions of time (such that there is no beginning of God's plane of time). Hence God is eternal, having never been created. Although it is possible that the universe itself is eternal, eliminating the need for its creation, observational evidence contradicts this hypothesis, since the universe began to exist a finite ~13.7 billion years ago. The only possible escape for the atheist is the invention of a kind of super universe, which can never be confirmed experimentally (hence it is metaphysical in nature, and not scientific).



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Offline TheAfterLife

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Re: Does God exist?
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2012, 04:50:41 PM »
Infinite minus infinite is infinite, therefore, it's illogical. You know why? It's like saying this God created this God and this God and that God to the infinite. That's illogical since science wants a limited answer, not something undefined in mathematics. Infinite minus infinite = 1, 99, -66, 1 billion, etc. Therefore, it's all real numbers.



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Offline Reporter

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Re: Does God exist?
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2012, 07:22:12 PM »
That's a lot to read.

But here's the answer: God exists. No need to prove that. Just live it!



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Offline YAX

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Re: Does God exist?
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2012, 07:39:34 PM »
So if there can be a zero, why can't there be a god?



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Offline hmongperson

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Re: Does God exist?
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2012, 10:22:56 PM »
God exists in the mind of the believer.



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Offline parana

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Re: Does God exist?
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2012, 10:40:03 PM »
God is a man's creation!  You know about man don't you  ;D ;D?



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Offline XiFue

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Re: Does God exist?
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2012, 11:33:49 AM »
Using Scientific hypothesis or science to measure a "God" doesn't have much logic in itself. I haven't seen anyone be able to "define" what is a God or a God's existence with science, as I don't think science really has a measure to define such a thing. If someone asks for scientific proof of a God, I'd ask where would one begin to prove that.

Some have also said Religion has pointed out how it defies scientific explanation as proof of evidence. The problem I see is that Religion can base itself on miracles and events that defy explanation, thus can be taken as an act of "God". To have someone stand there and start telling the story of Genesis to a rational scientist who's never heard it would only have you answering a multitude of questions and giving explanations that he/she would want evidence to support it. It just doesn't work unfortunately, and even if there was a "burning bush" that appeared, they would want to study it. It's "faith" and "belief" versus "evidence" and "hypothesis". It's not that science is wrong, it's that there's no measure for it to define a God, or even categorize something as a God.

I've read and seen debates on different sides of whatever belief, and it doesn't take one too long to realize why they say religion is one of the debates you may never win. I would not want to dissuade anyone from their beliefs, so I say whatever floats your boat, believe what you may. Just my opinion on the matter, because this debate can go on and on, but is only as finite as the collective knowledge that we know from others.  :)


« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 03:24:03 PM by XiFue »

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Offline 8v10un30sun

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Re: Does God exist?
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2012, 02:32:10 PM »
Agreed!  Yet we have people on PH who constantly put people down because of who they are.  They are bullies online.  So this kind of friction have resulted in backlash by the Christian community on PH.  It by per chance they the atheist on PH cannot answer our questions.  Maybe lack of real science background?  Maybe science doesn't have an answer to their questions?  Who knows.  I wish we can just agree to disagree and learn from each other and respect our uniqueness.

Using Scientific hypothesis or science to measure a "God" doesn't have much logic in itself. I haven't seen anyone be able to "define" what is a God or a God's existence with science, as I don't think science really has a measure to define such a thing. If someone asks for scientific proof of a God, I'd ask where would one begin to prove that. Some have also said Religion has pointed out how it defies scientific explanation as proof of evidence.

I've read and seen debates on different sides of whatever belief, and it doesn't take one too long to realize why they say religion is one of the debates you may never win. I would not want to dissuade anyone from their beliefs, so I say whatever floats your boat, believe what you may. Just my opinion on the matter.  :)



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Offline XiFue

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Re: Does God exist?
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2012, 03:30:56 PM »
Agreed!  Yet we have people on PH who constantly put people down because of who they are.  They are bullies online.  So this kind of friction have resulted in backlash by the Christian community on PH.  It by per chance they the atheist on PH cannot answer our questions.  Maybe lack of real science background?  Maybe science doesn't have an answer to their questions?  Who knows.  I wish we can just agree to disagree and learn from each other and respect our uniqueness.


And I agree as well, we can agree to disagree, respect others uniqueness. Neither side has no need to push the matter either way. No need for bullying.  8)



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Offline six

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Re: Does God exist?
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2012, 08:07:52 PM »
I find it funny how the believer's beliefs evolved [pun intended] over the years on here. 

First it was: The Big Bang didn't happened; God created the universe.

Then it became: The Big Bang is just a theory....ther e are no scientific proofs.

And then somehow today: "the universe had a beginning"

I guess....well, congrats!!



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Relaxed.  This is just drunk talk.  No need to get butt hurt.  If you are, feel free to add to my counter of butts hurt to the left AKA smites.

Offline shina

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Re: Does God exist?
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2012, 06:04:28 PM »
God exists in the mind of the believer.

I like your comment!



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Offline Gutts

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Re: Does God exist?
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2012, 08:21:26 PM »
Gods do exist.  Look at how the North Koreans view their leader haha



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Offline Hmong_Atheist

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Re: Does God exist?
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2012, 03:34:34 AM »
We know so little about this world and we want to assume there are gods?

In the world of science, the one who makes the positive claim (there is god) does the proven. It just crack me up when some fundies come on here and said prove god doesn't exist. It's not even a debate, it's laughing stock.

infinity - infinity = infinity => Illogical, therefore god?

Fact: Religion is dying and the truth (contradictions of religion) hurts.

"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I do good, I feel good. I do bad, I feel bad. That is my religion."
-Abraham Lincoln.



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Offline TheAfterLife

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Re: Does God exist?
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2012, 04:13:11 PM »
So if there can be a zero, why can't there be a god?

Because zero is something; therefore, nothing does not exist. If zero was destroyed, then nothing would exist along with the laws of illogic. Whoever dares to break the laws of illogic would be killed to the infinite of infinite; however, that also breaks that as well since the laws of nothing destroys everything into something that mankind cannot name. For example, if nothing was there, nothing would destroy itself to the infinite and infinite would destroy itself to the infinite again and again. It's a repetition of destruction of infinite which sounds very stupid and dumb. The truth is that if zero exist, then God exist. If zero does not exist, then time, space, matter, and a God would not exist. Zero is an important number since infinite is an irrational number like the number pie, the number letter e, cube root, square root, etc. Those are irrational numbers that scared aristotle and plato because they don't want to admit that they don't know everything. That is why they hide it for so long until now.

Remember, if zero does not exist, then God does not exist because zero is the beginning of time and it's the beginning of irrational numbers as well.



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Offline krsna-kamadeva-kalki

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Re: Does God exist?
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2012, 04:31:28 PM »
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« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 04:37:39 PM by krsna-kamadeva-kalki »

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