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Author Topic: The Story Behind Txiv Xaiv  (Read 3002 times)

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Offline The_Scholar

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The Story Behind Txiv Xaiv
« on: October 03, 2012, 09:01:50 PM »
Slude and those who are experts, care to share the story behind it?

Qhuab Kom?
Foom Kom?

Thanks



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Offline yuknowthat

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Re: The Story Behind Txiv Xaiv
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2012, 09:05:21 AM »
there's nothing really special about it...

txiv coj xais is just a "messenger" IMO...and a scholar "which many aren't "  :2funny: ...




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Offline jetter

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Re: The Story Behind Txiv Xaiv
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2012, 08:50:59 PM »
my best guess is a way to make money or monetary/gift exchange used by the "scholars" to control the masses because in the end, it's just words.  Every txiv coj xais from different part of laos (small country) have a different way of saying those words; even the rituals different from area to area. 

Do you remember when you were younger; when an elderly tells you "You must do this cause it's the right way! etc. ... .. " well if you ever ask the elderly to tell you why?  Pretty sure he will not be able to answer you but uses the excuse, it's always been like that.  Some Txiv Coj Xais uses words they themselves do not even know what it means; most claimed it's a very old word or a Chinese word that they just use and pass on by their master.  I wish I have a Chinese friend who I can consult those words with.



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Offline chidorix0x

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Re: The Story Behind Txiv Xaiv
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2012, 03:32:09 AM »
I suppose I'll "chime" in first with what I know from my first-hand experiences and cultural consciousness,  :).  Fyi - there is actually a folklore regarding the "txiv coj xai" but I'll let someone else tell that story/folklore.

jetter,

You couldn't be more wrong about your opinion of "txiv coj xai" or the fact that they do not know the words and meanings behind each/all of the verses/words they say etc.  Perhaps you or your kind are clueless, but I assure you a lot of the "txiv coj xai", if not all of them, know exactly what they are saying and the meaning of each word etc.  I admit, even I do not know some/most of the words spoken but that is mainly because in the "song(s)", some of the words are not in colloquial context.  For example, we normally say "txiv", but in the song they say "txi" etc. etc. etc.; therefore for those who are clueless, obviously they will think it is Greek.  And trust me, Chinese friend or not, he or she would be clueless too.  Why don't you go learn "txiv coj xai" or "Ntawv Hmoob" if you don't know it, then perhaps you will not be so clueless,  O0 .

To answer the question within this thread:

Qhuab Kom? --- that's basically the "Teachings (morals and values) of Life", for example, not to steal, gamble, commit adultery, and love one another etc. etc., to have and lead a good, fair, and rightgeous life
 
Foom Kom?  ---  this is the "Blessings or bestowing of wealth, health, and fortune", this is mainly what everyone wants to hear and know, and if the "txiv coj xai" is worthwhile etc.



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Offline jetter

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Re: The Story Behind Txiv Xaiv
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2012, 07:27:53 PM »
I must have hit a nerve there.  LOL .  My bad but remember it's just my 2 cents after studying for over 2 years now.  I hope I know all the basics things about the traditional Hmoob funeral for a baby, to a single individual to a young adult to the elderly.  As of now I am on the Cwb Qhua just barely got done with the Qhib Phiaj; which uses a lot of words that I do not know and even after asking the master, he him-self do not know; I have ask a few masters.  Coming from the American academic I learn faster by reading so I usually transcribe the recording first before trying to learn and guess what it's in Hmoob.

Instead of calling people names and assuming things, which is what most people who do not know enough to make a good argument usually do, could you enlighten the rest of us who you think could not read/write Hmoob or have never walked into a Traditional Funeral from the very beginning; right when the individual just passed to when they lay that individual to rest at the cemetery here in America, Laos and in China?  Could you tell us what differ if any are the Traditional Hmong Funeral practices in west coast CA and mid-west (MN, WI) and in our neighbor in the North; Canada?



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Offline chidorix0x

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Re: The Story Behind Txiv Xaiv
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2012, 10:05:31 PM »
I must have hit a nerve there.  LOL .  My bad but remember it's just my 2 cents after studying for over 2 years now.  I hope I know all the basics things about the traditional Hmoob funeral for a baby, to a single individual to a young adult to the elderly.  As of now I am on the Cwb Qhua just barely got done with the Qhib Phiaj; which uses a lot of words that I do not know and even after asking the master, he him-self do not know; I have ask a few masters.  Coming from the American academic I learn faster by reading so I usually transcribe the recording first before trying to learn and guess what it's in Hmoob.

...
...

 ::)  ... if you are learning from a "Purple Dinosaur", then yeah, obviously he/she would be clueless regarding the Hmong words/terms and their meaning(s).  And if true, then that is "sad" that your so-called masters are clueless.  You sure it is not "you" versus them; thus the accusation.

Here's a verse from one song I learned some time ago.  Note, these are not everyday Hmong words, yet I was informed/told by my mentor exactly what the words/phrase meant.

"Npum tswg tsis nrhais tswg, pov hneev tsis nrhais xib es.  Npum tswg npum li zog tuaj saum av es.  Npum tswg tseev kom tswg tsis txav nes."  (It means, "You and only you.  No one else  but you and you cannot be replaced nor can you refuse."  Bare in mind, the words/phrase is meant to convey an overall "message", not necessarily to literally provide verbatim meaning - word for word.  The "message" would not make any sense in this regard.  That said, in the "txiv coj xai" songs, some/most words/terms are very precise in meaning - actual Hmong words, though some are pre-USA and SE Asia.)

As for the differences cross-city, state, and countries, it is not that they are "uniquely" different.  More so, there are just variances due to environmental factors.  For example, here in the US, there is an abundance therefore things have been added etc.  And overseas or in less priviledged areas, the minimal is observed - likely more traditional, one could argue.  Overall though, the process and procedures are exactly the same - no differences period.



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Offline jetter

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Re: The Story Behind Txiv Xaiv
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2012, 10:26:20 PM »
thanks for the laugh man.





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Offline A_New_Beginning

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Re: The Story Behind Txiv Xaiv
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2013, 11:01:14 PM »
So far so good...what I really want is the Hmong experts in PH to explain to it me...because my dad's funeral we did not have Txiv Xaiv (per his request) and I totally understand why...and the story behind it.



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Offline chidorix0x

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Re: The Story Behind Txiv Xaiv
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2013, 03:09:23 AM »
So far so good...what I really want is the Hmong experts in PH to explain to it me...because my dad's funeral we did not have Txiv Xaiv (per his request) and I totally understand why...and the story behind it.

Was your dad's funeral a traditional Hmong funeral? Or was it a Hmong Christian or variant there of funeral? (I ask because I have never heard of or seen/attended a traditional Hmong funeral without a Txiv Xaiv. It or he is almost practically mandatory.) That said, there is no "law" that says a Txiv Xaiv is absolutely required. However, since your dad's wish/request was not to have a Txiv Xaiv - that could have been the deciding factor, to not have one.

What do you mean by explain? The role of the Txiv Xaiv or why he is needed? Be more specific. (As for the story behind the Txiv Xaiv, I will let someone else tell/take credit for that folklore/tale/story,  ;))



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