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Author Topic: Marriage within same clan  (Read 44293 times)

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Tubpojntxoog

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Marriage within same clan
« on: March 19, 2013, 11:52:21 PM »
What you guys think about same clan marriage? Can we lift that taboo?



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Offline duckwingduck

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Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2013, 09:58:32 AM »
You can.  The OG are going to make it hard on you.



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Offline theking

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Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2013, 05:06:33 AM »
What you guys think about same clan marriage? Can we lift that taboo?

I would rather marry a stranger with the same last name than a family member with a different last name i.e., cousin. If the Chinese and Koreans were able to drop that primitive belief, the Hmong can as well. It's really up to the individual to decide but there is nothing illegal or wrong with two strangers of the same last name marrying imo.



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Offline Reporter

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Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2013, 07:43:10 PM »
Cultures around the world believe that incest will result in deformed or disabled children in some ways. Scientists believe that to be the case.

However, not every case is the same, and so not every incestuous marriage will result in some disabled child(ren).  It's only marriages among close relatives that have a higher risk of disabled children. Among strangers is a different thing.

Therefore, if the Hmong are going to change this taboo, I suggest still to lift it only for marriages among strangers. We should not allow first or even third cousins and siblings to marry one another.



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MilesDaddy

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Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2013, 11:33:33 PM »
I would rather marry a stranger with the same last name than a family member with a different last name i.e., cousin. If the Chinese and Koreans were able to drop that primitive belief, the Hmong can as well. It's really up to the individual to decide but there is nothing illegal or wrong with two strangers of the same last name marrying imo.
my mom told me that it was the only rule of dating.......b ut she never thought i'd marry Korean so it really didn't matter much. I think that if you don't know them or there dad, then good enough. My wife has two good girl frinds from college that are also Mouas. She doesn't know anyone in there family that's related to our family... I think if you have done a little background such as this in the case of someone you may be interested in, I feel it is good enough



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chidorix0x

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Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2013, 07:01:48 PM »
it would be okay to marry someone of same last name but not of same clanO0

 ;D  ...   :idiot2:  ...  you just "contradicted" yourself  ...   :2funny:

Perhaps you are trying to say, "same last name but not of same lineage" ...  ;)

Nowadays, especially in the USA/West, outright ignorance bordering stupidity is so blatant and epidemic, that Song is marrying Xiong, Thor marrying Thao, Yang marrying Yaj, Lee marrying Lis etc. etc., where they all claim they do not have the same last name or is of the same clan, even Moua on Moua, Vang on Vang, Vue on Vue etc.,  ---  :2funny:  ...   :idiot2: :idiot2: :idiot2:



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MovKuam

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Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2013, 12:27:23 PM »
What you guys think about same clan marriage? Can we lift that taboo?

It will raise complication during funeral time, unless you live that long together.



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Tubpojntxoog

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Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2013, 11:30:20 AM »
Cultures around the world believe that incest will result in deformed or disabled children in some ways. Scientists believe that to be the case.

However, not every case is the same, and so not every incestuous marriage will result in some disabled child(ren).  It's only marriages among close relatives that have a higher risk of disabled children. Among strangers is a different thing.

Therefore, if the Hmong are going to change this taboo, I suggest still to lift it only for marriages among strangers. We should not allow first or even third cousins and siblings to marry one another.

Reporter,

That's exactly how I feel. I think whoever created the Hmong or maybe Hmong ancestors knew something about genetic issue; therefore, they created the clan system for Hmong and made it a taboo for marriage within same last name to avoid genetic problem. However, the practice of marriage of first cousins with different last name is wrong, but it is something Hmong has done ever since. I think if we keep first cousins out of the way, we will be fine.

And yes, the OG will make it tough on this issue, but if you and I and all the new generation come together, we can lift the taboo.



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HUNG TU LO

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Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2013, 03:03:21 PM »
Birth defects, whether physical, mental, or a combo of both, as a result of incest, is quite rare. It's not like the horror stories make them out to be.

We all have bad recessive genes that for whatever reason, doesn't surface. When we marry out of our bloodline, that recessive gene stays recessive...or at least you hope your spouse's bloodline also doesn't have that recessive gene. However, marrying within the blood allows that recessive gene to more likely surface. So let's say, maybe in the past 3-4 generations, a family had only 1 person that had asthma. But then down the line, two cousins have an incestuous relationship, and then most of their children have asthma.

It works like that. It's not like an incest is going to produce swamp thing. Most incestuous couples may have a lifetime of normal children just like other non-consanguine couples. Because the DNA is simply being recycled from the same source or whatnot, between two related male and female, the chances of the recessive genes (that were already existing) just simply has more chances to come out.

It's like grabbing balls out of a jar; there's 98 blue balls and there are only 2 red balls. An incest creates a brand new jar (a baby) with 100 balls again, but this time there are 4 red balls.



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Great Sage

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Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2013, 06:34:20 PM »
Regardless of anything else.... Hmong people do not believe in marrying same last names and I'm not going to start. It's embarrassing and shameful to say the least. There are enough Hmong last names that you don't need to be acting like a redneck. What's next, looking for dates at family reunions?



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PebHmoobUnited

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Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2013, 11:57:29 AM »
Reporter,

That's exactly how I feel. I think whoever created the Hmong or maybe Hmong ancestors knew something about genetic issue; therefore, they created the clan system for Hmong and made it a taboo for marriage within same last name to avoid genetic problem. However, the practice of marriage of first cousins with different last name is wrong, but it is something Hmong has done ever since. I think if we keep first cousins out of the way, we will be fine.

And yes, the OG will make it tough on this issue, but if you and I and all the new generation come together, we can lift the taboo.

If Hmoob ancestors knew anything about genetics they would have BANNED or PROHIBITED first cousin marriage.  Hmoob ancestors ruam li ruam xwb....and yet, peb tseem follow lawv ruam rules thiab?  In a sense...peb tseem RUAM TSHAJ lawv lawm thiab?

Nej xav seb puav yog li kuv hais? ua tsaug.



« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 12:01:28 PM by PebHmoobUnited »

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Great Sage

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Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2013, 01:06:32 PM »
If Hmoob ancestors knew anything about genetics they would have BANNED or PROHIBITED first cousin marriage.  Hmoob ancestors ruam li ruam xwb....and yet, peb tseem follow lawv ruam rules thiab?  In a sense...peb tseem RUAM TSHAJ lawv lawm thiab?

Nej xav seb puav yog li kuv hais? ua tsaug.



I'm sure they were more concerned with incest becoming a problem in Hmong society.

In any case, I find it hypocritical to call them "stupid" for believing what they believed. All races of people are built upon the pillars of ancestors. Even your own ideas had to come from somewhere. No American is ignorant enough to call their Fore Fathers idiots because they had no knowledge of modern science. Yet, here you are presenting the same illogical analogy.

Tell you what, go marry the same last name and bring shame on yourself and your family. I guarantee you will regret it. Of the very few people I know who have done this shameful act, NONE of them can show their faces in public anymore. In fact, they ended up getting divorced because it was too much for them. But the damage is done and they are too embarrassed to do anything near Hmong people; even their friends and family. Think about that.


« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 01:09:14 PM by Great Sage »

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Tubpojntxoog

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Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2013, 01:13:00 PM »
If Hmoob ancestors knew anything about genetics they would have BANNED or PROHIBITED first cousin marriage.  Hmoob ancestors ruam li ruam xwb....and yet, peb tseem follow lawv ruam rules thiab?  In a sense...peb tseem RUAM TSHAJ lawv lawm thiab?

Nej xav seb puav yog li kuv hais? ua tsaug.

No, koj hais tsis yog lawm. Yog peb Hmoob ruam npaum koj hais, peb raug ciaj tsuj tau 4000 - 5000 xyoo, peb tsis muaj Hmoob nyob ntiajteb lawm. Kuv tsis tau hnov cov scholars agree haistias ib haiv neeg yuav ntse dua ib haiv. Neeg ces ntse ib yam thiab ruam ib yam nkaus xwb, vim neeg yog one species xwb. Qhov uas tej haiv neeg muaj kev txawj ntse siab dua mas yog los ntawm txoj kev kawm thiab kev ua neej hloov mus raws txoj kev khawv noj khawv haus ntawd.

Qhov uas cov laus lawv tsis txwv kev sib yuav ntawm first cousin mas yog vim lawv tsis paub, tsis yog tias lawv ruam. Lawv tsis paub npaum tus tsim Hmoob paub. Tus tsim Hmoob (neeg) mas nws paub zoo txog cov genetic problem, tiamsis yog nws yuav muab qhia rau neeg ces yuav nyuaj heev rau neeg to taub, vim lub caij ntawv neeg lub hlwb tseem primitive heev (zoo li Niam no neeg piav txog quantum physics rau chimpanzee xwb). Yog li ntawd nws thiaj tsim cov xeem rau Hmoob thiab muab ua ib qho kev ntseeg rau Hmoob thiaj yoojyim rau Hmoob.

Pivtxwv li ntawm peb cov txim. Qhov cov 5 txig ncau mus uas 7 txim mas twb yog thaum ub cov laus lawv ua Nyuj Dab ces muaj 5 tug tub ces lawv rau 5 txig. Tiamsis Tom qab ntawv cov ntxhais ho mus yuav txiv ces thaum lawv ua nyuaj dab ces 2 txwg ntxhais vauv tuaj koom. Thaum cov laus pom tias yog yuav rau 5 txig rau cov tub xwb ces cov ntxhais vauv yuav tu siab rau Niam txiv. Yog li ntawd, lawv thiaj nug tus txiv muam coj dab tias ua li rau 2 txig rau ob khub ntxhais vauv thiab puas tau? Tus coj dab thiaj haistias ua tau kawg, ces lawv txawm ua 2 txig ntxiv. Yog li cov txim thiaj ncau ntxiv lawm. Koj paub txog qhov no lawm los? Qhov ncau tsis yog ncau pem tiamsis yeeb vim cov laus muaj lub siab dawb thiab hlub txhua tus. Tiamsis tom qab thaum tas cov laus tiam ntawv lawm, cov hluas ci li muab txoj kev ncau txim ntawv ua ib qho sib cais kwv cais tij lawm, tsis raws li qhov cov laus ua tseg. Ntawm kev sib yuav los yeej zoo ib yam li thiab. Thaum peb huam vam coob tuaj ces txawm muaj tus take advantage to cheat the system. Thaum sawvdaws pom tias muaj tus ua li ces sawvdaws txawm xyaum ntxiv.



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PebHmoobUnited

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Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2013, 01:17:10 PM »
I'm sure they were more concerned with incest becoming a problem in Hmong society.

In any case, I find it hypocritical to call them "stupid" for believing what they believed. All races of people are built upon the pillars of ancestors. Even your own ideas had to come from somewhere. No American is ignorant enough to call their Fore Fathers idiots because they had no knowledge of modern science. Yet, here you are presenting the same illogical analogy.

Tell you what, go marry the same last name and bring shame on yourself and your family. I guarantee you will regret it. Of the very few people I know who have done this shameful act, NONE of them can show their faces in public anymore. In fact, they ended up getting divorced because it was too much for them. But the damage is done and they are too embarrassed to do anything near Hmong people; even their friends and family. Think about that.

sage...point taken, but if these "geniuses" were smart as you claimed....why allowed first cousins marriage? I believe we were once could marry within our own clan....but some where (I'm speculating here without facts) back in china during the warring periods....Hmo ob were defeated and divided to make us easier to control. Hmoob were divided in to clans....So over time, Hmoob cia li develop this "clan ship" system los siv rau hmoob lawm xwb.



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PebHmoobUnited

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Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2013, 01:26:41 PM »
No, koj hais tsis yog lawm. Yog peb Hmoob ruam npaum koj hais, peb raug ciaj tsuj tau 4000 - 5000 xyoo, peb tsis muaj Hmoob nyob ntiajteb lawm. Kuv tsis tau hnov cov scholars agree haistias ib haiv neeg yuav ntse dua ib haiv. Neeg ces ntse ib yam thiab ruam ib yam nkaus xwb, vim neeg yog one species xwb. Qhov uas tej haiv neeg muaj kev txawj ntse siab dua mas yog los ntawm txoj kev kawm thiab kev ua neej hloov mus raws txoj kev khawv noj khawv haus ntawd.

Qhov uas cov laus lawv tsis txwv kev sib yuav ntawm first cousin mas yog vim lawv tsis paub, tsis yog tias lawv ruam. Lawv tsis paub npaum tus tsim Hmoob paub. Tus tsim Hmoob (neeg) mas nws paub zoo txog cov genetic problem, tiamsis yog nws yuav muab qhia rau neeg ces yuav nyuaj heev rau neeg to taub, vim lub caij ntawv neeg lub hlwb tseem primitive heev (zoo li Niam no neeg piav txog quantum physics rau chimpanzee xwb). Yog li ntawd nws thiaj tsim cov xeem rau Hmoob thiab muab ua ib qho kev ntseeg rau Hmoob thiaj yoojyim rau Hmoob.

Pivtxwv li ntawm peb cov txim. Qhov cov 5 txig ncau mus uas 7 txim mas twb yog thaum ub cov laus lawv ua Nyuj Dab ces muaj 5 tug tub ces lawv rau 5 txig. Tiamsis Tom qab ntawv cov ntxhais ho mus yuav txiv ces thaum lawv ua nyuaj dab ces 2 txwg ntxhais vauv tuaj koom. Thaum cov laus pom tias yog yuav rau 5 txig rau cov tub xwb ces cov ntxhais vauv yuav tu siab rau Niam txiv. Yog li ntawd, lawv thiaj nug tus txiv muam coj dab tias ua li rau 2 txig rau ob khub ntxhais vauv thiab puas tau? Tus coj dab thiaj haistias ua tau kawg, ces lawv txawm ua 2 txig ntxiv. Yog li cov txim thiaj ncau ntxiv lawm. Koj paub txog qhov no lawm los? Qhov ncau tsis yog ncau pem tiamsis yeeb vim cov laus muaj lub siab dawb thiab hlub txhua tus. Tiamsis tom qab thaum tas cov laus tiam ntawv lawm, cov hluas ci li muab txoj kev ncau txim ntawv ua ib qho sib cais kwv cais tij lawm, tsis raws li qhov cov laus ua tseg. Ntawm kev sib yuav los yeej zoo ib yam li thiab. Thaum peb huam vam coob tuaj ces txawm muaj tus take advantage to cheat the system. Thaum sawvdaws pom tias muaj tus ua li ces sawvdaws txawm xyaum ntxiv.

question is..... uacas hos (WHY is it) WRONG to yuav yuv own clan...I want to know the truth behind such nonsense rule?  So far, no one has lay out the FACTS to back up such rule?  Anyone? 



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