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Author Topic: Marriage within same clan  (Read 44276 times)

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Hey Joe

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Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #105 on: July 08, 2017, 12:34:05 PM »
The intellect of our ancestors is not in question here. They set parameters base on the ethics and cultural norms. Marrying cousins with DIFFERENT last names is within the parameters. However, I’m beginning to see that in the United States, this is less of an occurance.


Are you really so naïve?

The same justification you have for marrying your own clan name can be used to justify marrying your sister, mother, brother, father, uncle, etc… So where does it stop? It’s unethical as stated by our ancestors. Furthermore, it’s not a cultural norm. Society is defined by laws and cultural norms; even if they pose no real threat. They still have ethical and moral implications. For instance, you can make a case for marrying your sister; even to the extent of providing scientific proof that it doesn’t hurt anyone. Yet, it will still be condemned by society. In fact, it’s illegal in many parts of the world, including the US in some way, shape or form.

There is no law that prevents you from marrying your own clan name. However, it is socially taboo in Hmong society. If this reason isn’t good enough for you, then what is? Does it need to be handed down from gods? People make rules as to what is culturally accepted or not. Same name clan marriages generally are not. Do a search on the Internet or ask around. I believe most people, regardless of race, have reservations about marrying someone with the same last name.


I'm sorry for the belated post here but I feel strongly about this topic enough to rebut you. 

Ok, we 1st generations (Americans or came here as an infant) 'generally' scoff at the Hmong social norm of approving of marrying our first cousins with different last names.  But first cousins with same last names are prohibited - according to that same Hmong norm.  Go figure.  Which btw, incidentally are both prohibited (not technically legal) in the USA altogether.  And that is after all the elder statesmen telling us it's OK to carry on the former (sentence) of marrying our first cousin w/ a different last name.

Me personally, I don't care as long as it's not your brother/sister, mother/father. 

Here's my main point:  I even care much, much less if it were two virtually unrelated people with the same last name, e.g., Xiong and Xiong, Vue and Vue, etc., which by virtue is in the same 'clan', I believe.

You argue that we really shouldn't push the boundaries of societal norms lest we be ousted by society.  Well, there you go.  First cousins marrying in America is pushing the boundaries of societal norms, even illegal.  So ARE you a hypocrite or does American social norms NOT count?  Or are you actually still in favor with that (kissing cousins) but still disallow within the same 'clan' marriage.  If so, then you undoubtedly are a hypocrite in my book.

Yet same last name marriage practices - as long as there are no multi-generational lineage- are way, way more common across the planet then first cousins getting hitched/dating.

And that is the situation right now (above sentence) with our cultural conundrum - if you can call it that.  We are the only East Asian culture on the planet to appoint 'clans' and prohibit marriage within that 'clan' just because we have the same last name YET approve of first cousin marriage.  Every other Asian ethnic, or anyone else in the World, marry comfortably within the same last name as long as they check up on their lineage.

The goal is to avoid first or - second or even third (if we even want to go that far) - generational incest.  That is not incest.  That is arbitrary tribalism to pit the 'clans' against one another.   Again, only we Hmong do that.

TLDR,  It's fine to marry first, second, third cousins with different last names BUT against 'our' (Hmong) edict to marry another person of your 'clan' (essentially a stranger with your same last name) of which you surely have zero lineage too. Go figure. I disagree. It's antiquated tribalism NOT incest.  Your cultural parameters are outdated as like segregation in school. 






« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 01:15:01 PM by Hey Joe »

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Hey Joe

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Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #106 on: July 08, 2017, 12:57:04 PM »
I like how you people come up with all sort of "culture" ideology illustrations to counter your lack of proof to back up why marrying your own "CLAN" is morally wrong?  I've read and heard the same arguments all the time....MOST are nothing but gibberish at best.

Until you have something "NEW" to convince me otherwise, you people are simply NOT thinking in the big scheme of things.  We no longer live in a world run by "fairy tales stories or "poj ua tseg yawg ua cia" lawm....We live in a "SCIENTIFIC" world were we MUST question our values and culture if we are to advance ideologically and sociologically ....

Thank you Sir, or Ma'am.  Much appreciated.



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Hey Joe

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Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #107 on: July 08, 2017, 01:10:01 PM »
Hmong have already come close to it. To those Hmorons, it's not ok to marry a stranger with the same last name that has zero biological connection but it's ok to marry a biological blood related family member.  :idiot2:

And according to some, the same last name can't marry belief was adopted from the Chinese so it wasn't even a Hmong practice to begin with...

This. Very much this.  By next generation.  I feel we will all see the inanity in that.  The Chinese has forwent all that in favor of marrying whoever you want as long as you check up on the lineage.



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Hey Joe

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Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #108 on: July 08, 2017, 02:02:23 PM »
There lies your problem. You care too much what others think of your own ethnic group rather than have the spine to stand proud and accept that it's a social taboo in our culture. Why do you allow another culture to define what is right or isn't right in YOUR culture?  :idiot2: Does a horse tell a cow how to live?  :idiot2: There isn't anything wrong with this practice of ours. None of you have presented a compelling reason to fix something that isn't broken.

Do you believe in gay marriage?



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Hey Joe

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Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #109 on: July 08, 2017, 02:07:09 PM »
Many aspects of the Hmong culture is good but the bad aspects such as 'bride-nap, men being allowed to marry multiple wives or date other women even after marriage, trading money for human, grandpa marrying underage kids, alcohol poisoning of minors at weddings, blood family members marrying each other, non-blood related strangers with the same last name can't date/marry, ...gotta go. As I've said, those that want to continue practicing those primitive practices, suit yourself but I'm not.

Right on the money, Sir.

I'm a proud Hmong guy, and I think it's HIGHLY hypocritical to be so sanctimonious about this  thread/topic when they have nothing to say about polygamy (multiple wives), cheating, age gap marriage, possibly even kidnapping of a minor.   Sorry, for being late to the party, I just joined.



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Hey Joe

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Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #110 on: July 08, 2017, 02:12:12 PM »
I knew you would bring this up and am fully prepared to state that such point is irrelevant to the topic you proposed, which is marrying same clan name. So let's just stick with that.

There is nothing primitive about this age-old practice in our culture. It is simply a social taboo that is observed by the majority of Hmong people. I don't know why you have difficulties understanding that. If you want to step outside social norm then that's your prerogative but be prepared to face criticism. This is the same as people who look for ways to be a non-conformist. They may not be doing anything illegal but since it's not standard practice they will get talked about.

I don't know why you continue to argue tooth and nail as if you want something written as law to stop this. It's as silly as trying to write a law that will allow American bride's to wear a purple wedding dress.  :idiot2: Traditionally, brides wear a white wedding gown but who is to say that a bride can't wear cheetah print if that's what she wants? She will probably get talked about but must we debate and establish a law about this?  ::)

...


« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 03:17:49 PM by Hey Joe »

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Offline theking

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Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #111 on: July 10, 2017, 01:31:06 AM »
Right on the money, Sir.

I'm a proud Hmong guy, and I think it's HIGHLY hypocritical to be so sanctimonious about this  thread/topic when they have nothing to say about polygamy (multiple wives), cheating, age gap marriage, possibly even kidnapping of a minor.   Sorry, for being late to the party, I just joined.

Hey Joe,

Welcome to this message board and enjoy your stay.

Fortunately, more and more Hmong are moving away from those beliefs/practices from what I've seen over the years.  O0

The idea that non-blood related strangers who happen to share the same last name are forbidden to hook up but blood related family members like cousins are allowed does create head scratching moments... ;D



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