Advertisement

Author Topic: Marriage within same clan  (Read 44280 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Great Sage

  • Guest
Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2013, 10:42:19 AM »
phu aws... if you are ok with your kids marrying other 'VUE' ppl....  and of course in your opinion... your 'vue' clan probably is the best clan out there that you [narcissist] want to keep it all in your 'vue' family clan [not same lineage]... then yes... do that.  hehehe... no one is stopping you.

however, it's unethical to force your belief on those of us who are against it... not to mention even consider it a law...  ::) .... how rude...  just because everything inch of your muscle can't resist another of the same last name doesn't make it right for you to pursue that person... nor preach that it should be deemed a law.   ::) 

for all we know... this may very well someday be a genetic defect causing these situations.   ;D

Trust me, I doubt other sane Vue people will agree to the same terms. Despite the testimony (or lack thereof) on here, I have NEVER heard any OG's or Hmong people, for that matter, approve of same last name marriage!



Like this post: 0

Adverstisement

PebHmoobUnited

  • Guest
Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2013, 10:56:02 AM »
phu aws... if you are ok with your kids marrying other 'VUE' ppl....  and of course in your opinion... your 'vue' clan probably is the best clan out there that you [narcissist] want to keep it all in your 'vue' family clan [not same lineage]... then yes... do that.  hehehe... no one is stopping you.

however, it's unethical to force your belief on those of us who are against it... not to mention even consider it a law...  ::) .... how rude...  just because everything inch of your muscle can't resist another of the same last name doesn't make it right for you to pursue that person... nor preach that it should be deemed a law.   ::) 

for all we know... this may very well someday be a genetic defect causing these situations.   ;D

You see....people zoo li nej pom ONLY txog nej's lub nose xwb no offesne...Nej nyob lub ntuj uas vajmeej tshaj plaws, yet nej tsis paub ask questions....t sis paub nug questions uacas peb hos tsis pub same clan marriage, etc.  When we have debates as such, and whether it's right or wrong, it gives hope that we are a people of conscientious.

We have to CHANGE the way we look at "poj ua tseg yawg ua cia".....they are from a different time period...They may have believe in such practice as taboo, wrong...inappr opriate, but as a people with the ability to think and reason, we MUST modified, changed, question our own cultural beliefs if we are to stay the course and survive.

Remember...cul tures yog man-made xwb...therefor e we can change it as we see fit! It's NOT carved in stone..K> ua tsaug.




Like this post: 0

PebHmoobUnited

  • Guest
Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2013, 10:58:29 AM »
Trust me, I doubt other sane Vue people will agree to the same terms. Despite the testimony (or lack thereof) on here, I have NEVER heard any OG's or Hmong people, for that matter, approve of same last name marriage!

vim MOST are just as clueless as some of nej uas tsis paub question why hos wrong? 



Like this post: 0

Great Sage

  • Guest
Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2013, 11:05:06 AM »
vim MOST are just as clueless as some of nej uas tsis paub question why hos wrong? 

Who's clueless when all you've presented is a false ideology that you yourself can't follow to the "T."



Like this post: 0

PebHmoobUnited

  • Guest
Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2013, 11:08:32 AM »
Who's clueless when all you've presented is a false ideology that you yourself can't follow to the "T."

I'm presenting an "IDEA" for us to debate...i'm NOT enforcing anyone to jump on board...



Like this post: 0

AOZ

  • Guest
Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2013, 11:10:44 AM »
You see....people zoo li nej pom ONLY txog nej's lub nose xwb no offesne...Nej nyob lub ntuj uas vajmeej tshaj plaws, yet nej tsis paub ask questions....t sis paub nug questions uacas peb hos tsis pub same clan marriage, etc.  When we have debates as such, and whether it's right or wrong, it gives hope that we are a people of conscientious.

We have to CHANGE the way we look at "poj ua tseg yawg ua cia".....they are from a different time period...They may have believe in such practice as taboo, wrong...inappr opriate, but as a people with the ability to think and reason, we MUST modified, changed, question our own cultural beliefs if we are to stay the course and survive.

Remember...cul tures yog man-made xwb...therefor e we can change it as we see fit! It's NOT carved in stone..K> ua tsaug.

lols.   ;D

what is there to reason?   human instinct/logic or animal instinct/logic?  where does it stop?  the line has to be drawn somewhere.  what about those who want to marry same sex or even those who want to marry their pets? will you fight for them as well?  how about incest? will you speak out for them too?





Like this post: 0

Great Sage

  • Guest
Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2013, 11:22:36 AM »
lols.   ;D

what is there to reason?   human instinct/logic or animal instinct/logic?  where does it stop?  the line has to be drawn somewhere.  what about those who want to marry same sex or even those who want to marry their pets? will you fight for them as well?  how about incest? will you speak out for them too?




EXACTLY!!!

At what point does this ideology stop or begin! You can use it to make an argument for ANYTHING! For example, it's morally and scientifically justifiable to beat up people who look at you wrong, so I'm in favor.... How can you disprove me?

With same last name marriage, how can you disprove that your son can't marry your own brother's daughter? Where's the justification against that? Where's the line when you follow this ideology? What's your reason? You can't do it that's all? Now, we've gone full circle again because you go back to arguing about ethics and cultural values; meanwhile, they throw the same ridiculous ideogolgy back at you. Round and round it goes.  :idiot2:

 




Like this post: 0

Great Sage

  • Guest
Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2013, 11:24:16 AM »
I'm presenting an "IDEA" for us to debate...i'm NOT enforcing anyone to jump on board...


You're making a mockery of our ancestors and their beliefs. Beliefs which we still hold today. Calling our ancestors and people "stupid" for not agree with your flawed ideology doesn't make your idea any more appealing.



Like this post: +1

Great Sage

  • Guest
Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2013, 11:51:47 AM »
Morals are subjective without the concensus people. Science is meant to aid us in decisions, not dictate our every action.

When are are led to believe everything and anything we do is fine as long as we feel it's justifiably moral and scientifically okay, then our selfish interests become more importan than our integrity.

At that point, what does any cultural institution matter. This argument can be made against marriage... How about relationships? Man-made laws? Who needs them? Just roam the world and do whatever you please.



Like this post: 0

PebHmoobUnited

  • Guest
Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2013, 12:06:16 PM »
GS...

i'm tired...cia wb tham los xaus li no xwb....i can't change a mind that can't be changed.... ua tsaug



Like this post: 0

night912

  • Guest
Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #40 on: April 09, 2013, 12:24:04 PM »
I'm sure they were more concerned with incest becoming a problem in Hmong society.

In any case, I find it hypocritical to call them "stupid" for believing what they believed. All races of people are built upon the pillars of ancestors. Even your own ideas had to come from somewhere. No American is ignorant enough to call their Fore Fathers idiots because they had no knowledge of modern science. Yet, here you are presenting the same illogical analogy.

Tell you what, go marry the same last name and bring shame on yourself and your family. I guarantee you will regret it. Of the very few people I know who have done this shameful act, NONE of them can show their faces in public anymore. In fact, they ended up getting divorced because it was too much for them. But the damage is done and they are too embarrassed to do anything near Hmong people; even their friends and family. Think about that.

In this case, why would you let the thoughts of other people bother you?



Like this post: 0

night912

  • Guest
Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #41 on: April 09, 2013, 12:26:59 PM »
You see....people zoo li nej pom ONLY txog nej's lub nose xwb no offesne...Nej nyob lub ntuj uas vajmeej tshaj plaws, yet nej tsis paub ask questions....t sis paub nug questions uacas peb hos tsis pub same clan marriage, etc.  When we have debates as such, and whether it's right or wrong, it gives hope that we are a people of conscientious.

We have to CHANGE the way we look at "poj ua tseg yawg ua cia".....they are from a different time period...They may have believe in such practice as taboo, wrong...inappr opriate, but as a people with the ability to think and reason, we MUST modified, changed, question our own cultural beliefs if we are to stay the course and survive.

Remember...cul tures yog man-made xwb...therefor e we can change it as we see fit! It's NOT carved in stone..K> ua tsaug.

I agree with cultures changing. It's not just in our culture but has been seen in other ones as well.



Like this post: 0

Offline theking

  • Elite Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 58885
  • Respect: +1322
    • View Profile
Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2013, 06:24:30 PM »
I agree with cultures changing. It's not just in our culture but has been seen in other ones as well.

Yep, not too long ago, no one were allowed to marry whites but whites because it's "morally and ethically" wrong according the majority of white societies, gay marriage were deemed evil and and considered "morally and ethically" wrong according to those that are against it especially hardcore right wing Christians, ....I can go on and on about more BS primitive beliefs of the past in many cultures and societies but those with brain cells will understand my point.

In the Hmong society specifically, Hmong marrying Laotian or Mien or other Asian ethnic groups were deemed stupid from what I've observed while living in Loas. Here in the states, Hmong that married other races are also deemed stupid by some Hmorons (no different than the white morons or morons in any other group that still believe in their own BS primitive beliefs). Furthermore, even Hmong marrying Hmong is deemed stupid according to some Hmorons because the clans of the bride and groom don't click for some lame ass primitive reason a long long time ago.

Therefore, as you say, changes in culture cannot be halt. I see more and more mixed marriages (ethnic and/or race), I see more and more people accepting gay people and gay marriages, I see more and more Hmong married out of ethnic and race, and less and less Hmong care about things like a certain clan can't marry a certain clan, or one clan punishing another clan during wedding negotiation or any other bs primitive beliefs that happened a long time ago  ...all due to the winds of change as it cannot be halt regardless of culture.

As that change continues to progress, I can see certain primitive belief and practices of the Hmong culture disappearing such as bride-head price (also adapted from the Chinese a long time ago like the no marriage within the same last name according to some), polygamy, blood cousins being allow to hook up, bride-napping, adults marrying kids, alcohol poisoning at weddings especially when it involves minors, and in this case, frowning upon strangers with the same last name tying the knot. Those changes have been slow but it is progressing non the less because more and more people are changing from it.

The wind of change has and will continue to affect every culture. As a result, the fat will continue to be trimmed and left behind as time goes and the good aspects of cultures will move forward.


« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 12:12:59 AM by theking »

Like this post: +1

Offline Believe_N_Me

  • Elite Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 14023
  • Respect: +454
    • View Profile
Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2013, 11:30:31 PM »
Fine, fine, fine.

Why don't all those who support same clan marriages try this tomorrow:

Show up to work wearing nothing but your underwear. Scientifically, you aren't hurting anybody right? Despite the fat guy sitting two cubicles to your right who claims that he's lost his appetite after seeing your skid marks, what is inappropriate about you in your unmentionables? After all, it's not against the Constitution, right? Who cares about the dress code policy in your company? They're just primitive and outdated. Their policy has no real value and the company culture needs to loosen up.  ::)



Like this post: -1

biggieT

  • Guest
Re: Marriage within same clan
« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2013, 03:10:29 AM »
GS....

The things you listed are fairy tales of a people....so it's ok to believe in them....we already know why it existed....

BUT for what you and I seem to disagree is that hmoob can't differentiate fairy tales from real scientific truth...You see, those who based their values and culture with scientific reasons are ALWAYS ahead of those who relied on "poj ua tseg yawg ua cia".

What I'm saying is that...there's NOTHING morally and scientifically WRONG for two people of the same clan to marry each other except first and second cousins.  If it is WRONG as said then why are we allowed to marry others when scientifically, we're all came from one dad and one mom?

You see where i'm going?



You were doing well with your arguments until you said "there is nothing morally and scientifically wrong...." They just pounced on you after that.

Morality is a social construct. Social constructs are based on the beliefs of the people that it applies to. Hmong people just happens to believe that marrying the same last name is wrong, therefor in our culture, it's morally wrong.

There are more important issues regarding our culture out there than this one anyways. Let's save our passion for those.



Like this post: 0

 

Advertisements