Marriage within same clan

[CheejSiav]

No, koj hais tsis yog lawm. Yog peb Hmoob ruam npaum koj hais, peb raug ciaj tsuj tau 4000 - 5000 xyoo, peb tsis muaj Hmoob nyob ntiajteb lawm. Kuv tsis tau hnov cov scholars agree haistias ib haiv neeg yuav ntse dua ib haiv. Neeg ces ntse ib yam thiab ruam ib yam nkaus xwb, vim neeg yog one species xwb. Qhov uas tej haiv neeg muaj kev txawj ntse siab dua mas yog los ntawm txoj kev kawm thiab kev ua neej hloov mus raws txoj kev khawv noj khawv haus ntawd.

Qhov uas cov laus lawv tsis txwv kev sib yuav ntawm first cousin mas yog vim lawv tsis paub, tsis yog tias lawv ruam. Lawv tsis paub npaum tus tsim Hmoob paub. Tus tsim Hmoob (neeg) mas nws paub zoo txog cov genetic problem, tiamsis yog nws yuav muab qhia rau neeg ces yuav nyuaj heev rau neeg to taub, vim lub caij ntawv neeg lub hlwb tseem primitive heev (zoo li Niam no neeg piav txog quantum physics rau chimpanzee xwb). Yog li ntawd nws thiaj tsim cov xeem rau Hmoob thiab muab ua ib qho kev ntseeg rau Hmoob thiaj yoojyim rau Hmoob.

Pivtxwv li ntawm peb cov txim. Qhov cov 5 txig ncau mus uas 7 txim mas twb yog thaum ub cov laus lawv ua Nyuj Dab ces muaj 5 tug tub ces lawv rau 5 txig. Tiamsis Tom qab ntawv cov ntxhais ho mus yuav txiv ces thaum lawv ua nyuaj dab ces 2 txwg ntxhais vauv tuaj koom. Thaum cov laus pom tias yog yuav rau 5 txig rau cov tub xwb ces cov ntxhais vauv yuav tu siab rau Niam txiv. Yog li ntawd, lawv thiaj nug tus txiv muam coj dab tias ua li rau 2 txig rau ob khub ntxhais vauv thiab puas tau? Tus coj dab thiaj haistias ua tau kawg, ces lawv txawm ua 2 txig ntxiv. Yog li cov txim thiaj ncau ntxiv lawm. Koj paub txog qhov no lawm los? Qhov ncau tsis yog ncau pem tiamsis yeeb vim cov laus muaj lub siab dawb thiab hlub txhua tus. Tiamsis tom qab thaum tas cov laus tiam ntawv lawm, cov hluas ci li muab txoj kev ncau txim ntawv ua ib qho sib cais kwv cais tij lawm, tsis raws li qhov cov laus ua tseg. Ntawm kev sib yuav los yeej zoo ib yam li thiab. Thaum peb huam vam coob tuaj ces txawm muaj tus take advantage to cheat the system. Thaum sawvdaws pom tias muaj tus ua li ces sawvdaws txawm xyaum ntxiv.

Tunpojntxoog koj hais tsis yog lawm. Peb Hmoob united thiaj li hais yog rau ib nrab. Qhov 5 txig 7 txig koj hais ko kuv tsis tau hnov dua li thiab tsis thwj lawm. Tos Hmoob muaj 5 txig 7 txig no mas yog vim yav nram ntej suav caij tsuj Hmoob thiab pheej khawb khawb Hmoob ntxa Hmoob thiaj li nrhiav tswv yim los kom suav thiaj li tsis paub tias Hmoob ntxa yog Hmoob ntxa tiag. Hmoob thiaj li qog suav los lawm. Thiab koj xav tias Hmoob ntse no Hmoob yeej npub kawg rau qees qho thiab yog Hmoob ntxov paub txog cajces thiab roj ntsha mas Hmoob yeej tsis yuam kom neejtsa rov yuav neejtsa.

[BoredatWork]

My uncle told me the problem with same last name marriage is during funerals.  This is with the old tradition only.  I guess if you go to church you can go all out and do whatever since the traditional funeral rules do not apply.  Unless there's a special rule for Hmong church pple because I do not believe there's a rule against marrying within the same last name as long as you're not related(ie: smith and smith).  Maybe someone that goes to church can chime in or ask one of their pastors about same last name marriages.  I believe if you're scared of this taboo there's that saying, "If you're scared, go to church".   

[Yaj79]

🐮

[dogmai]

What if you dated someone of the same last name because this other person gave you a false name?  I've been told to restore honor, a process "fix" in Hmong is done?

In that case.......

[theking]

What if you dated someone of the same last name because this other person gave you a false name?  I've been told to restore honor, a process "fix" in Hmong is done?

Nothing needs to be done as you didn't do anything wrong....and nothing will happen...so no need to waste time to "restore honor" and other primitive BS.

[Yaj79]

Thanks for the advice.. I couldn't understand how I am held accountable for something I did not know of, plus something I did before I met my current bf?  I thought there may be more to "Hmong kev chai" that I don't know of.  I'm guessing this is all bullshit and an excuse for him only.

[theking]

Thanks for the advice.. I couldn't understand how I am held accountable for something I did not know of, plus something I did before I met my current bf?  I thought there may be more to "Hmong kev chai" that I don't know of.  I'm guessing this is all bullshit and an excuse for him only.

The primitive "Hmong kev chai" don't mean jack here in America...

[NeejYagHawj]

people...

know the difference...t he word "xeem" refers to province.  such as xeem hawj is from the "xeev" HO...named after the chinese govenor who ruled those hmong in that province.  likewise, xeem Yaj is from "xeev yang", ruled by the chinese govenor Yang...

the true clan name are "dluag, vug, zag, dub, mob, etc..."

when you say "same clan marriage," you need to know what you meant.  do you mean same family name?  same place of residence?  or same direct family such as a true sister?

[NeejYagHawj]

by the way, when referring to true mong clan, we don't say "xeem" anymore.  we say "qhua"...such as "koj yog qhua dabtsi"?

[NeejYagHawj]

fact is people, xeem does not imply same "qhua."  this means that not all xeem are related. 

however, it is important to know that since 1600, people of the same xeem are related.

it is ok to change this tradition.   there is nothing wrong with same clan marriage...

the qeustion is, r you willing to face the consequences

[NeejYagHawj]

FACT:  there are consequences in everything you do....

there is nothing wrong with what  you do, including marrying whoever you want...but are you willing to take the consequences.  PEOPLE DO/DON'TDO THINGS not because its right or wrong (right or wrong is different for different peoople..no one can really define it)..they do it  or dont' do it because of consequences. 

so again, there is nothing wrong with your choice...its a matter of "are you man enough to take the consequences" in the actions yuou take.

[theking]

Some primitive aspects of cultures should be dropped when it doesn't make sense anymore whether it be in the Hmong culture or other cultures...suc h as marrying multiple spouse, adults marrying kids, etc.

As far as the "last name" thing goes, people have enough common sense to know that you are not blood related just because you share the same last name. Which is why the Chinese and Koreans dropped that primitive belief out of their cultures and moved forward. I see more and more Hmong people moving that direction too as it doesn't make sense anymore.

As far as "consequences" goes, that just depends on individuals' perspective and what they follow...the old primitive way or the new way.

Even in this day and age, some still feel it's NOT OK to marry a non-blood related stranger who shares the same last name but it's OK to marry a blood related family member like cousins for example ....

And speaking of consequences, just don't get caught by the authorities in pretty much all parts of this country when one decides to marry one's own blood related family members just because the primitive belief said it's OK...

[NeejYagHawj]

it seems many of you did not understand what i meant when i said "consequences"....it can be good or bad people.

regarding "primitive," this is also depends on how you view it.  for the best chance survival..an adult male marrying a much younger female would not be anything close to being primitive--for it is the best chance of offsprings survival and making offsprings.  in terms of multiple spouses, it also really depend on how one views it.  it is just weird for a person to think that since this is the present where science rule the rule, having many wives is a bad thing....there is no correlation at all.  however, people (couple) would be in more harmony if its just 1-1.

[theking]

Bottom line is, if you still want to follow the primitive ways, you have that right in this great country as long as it's not against the laws or violating anyone's rights.

Those of us that want to drop it also have that right to do so in this great country and I know for sure, we are not breaking any laws nor violating anyone's rights by doing so...

[Hung_Low]

Regardless of anything else.... Hmong people do not believe in marrying same last names and I'm not going to start. It's embarrassing and shameful to say the least. There are enough Hmong last names that you don't need to be acting like a redneck. What's next, looking for dates at family reunions?

Totally agree... Hmong will be the next Redneck in America. Just because American do it don't mean we have to do it. Offsprings of sister and brother shouldn't be marry either.