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Author Topic: Hmong wedding process and the different roles people play in Hmong weddings  (Read 26535 times)

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Offline lilly

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Re: Hmong wedding process and the different roles people play in Hmong weddings
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2013, 05:47:28 PM »
+1.  Ua tsaug!  Waiting for the next step.   ;)  Thanks, Chidorix0x.



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Offline night912

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Re: Hmong wedding process and the different roles people play in Hmong weddings
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2013, 06:18:16 PM »
I've seen some weddings that the hmong green side had 3 mejkoob.



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Offline chidorix0x

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Re: Hmong wedding process and the different roles people play in Hmong weddings
« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2013, 06:41:46 PM »
I've seen some weddings that the hmong green side had 3 mejkoob.

 ??? ... it is a known fact, historically and culturally since SEAsia, that Green Hmong solely have, use, and require a "single" -- as in one, uno, "ib tug mej koob" only.  Not sure what you saw, heard, or have been told.  Hopefully it was not from Google/WWW ...  :2funny: ... or was it ...  :idiot2: .

That said, if a White Hmong marries a Green Hmong girl/lady and goes there, to the Green Hmong, to perform the "wedding ceremony", then they only need "one/a single" wedding mediator -- "tus mej koob".

But say, a Green Hmong marries a White Hmong girl/lady and goes there, to the White Hmong, to perform the "wedding ceremony", then they need "two/a pair" of wedding mediators -- "ob tug mej koob".

Ua tsaug ...  :)



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Offline night912

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Re: Hmong wedding process and the different roles people play in Hmong weddings
« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2013, 07:35:47 PM »
??? ... it is a known fact, historically and culturally since SEAsia, that Green Hmong solely have, use, and require a "single" -- as in one, uno, "ib tug mej koob" only.  Not sure what you saw, heard, or have been told.  Hopefully it was not from Google/WWW ...  :2funny: ... or was it ...  :idiot2: .

That said, if a White Hmong marries a Green Hmong girl/lady and goes there, to the Green Hmong, to perform the "wedding ceremony", then they only need "one/a single" wedding mediator -- "tus mej koob".

But say, a Green Hmong marries a White Hmong girl/lady and goes there, to the White Hmong, to perform the "wedding ceremony", then they need "two/a pair" of wedding mediators -- "ob tug mej koob".

Ua tsaug ...  :)

When did google have wedding?  Is it some kind of cyber wedding?



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Offline chidorix0x

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Re: Hmong wedding process and the different roles people play in Hmong weddings
« Reply #49 on: September 09, 2013, 05:34:13 PM »
A traditional Hmong wedding continued ... (Before explaining this ceremony, or breakfast/feast, I want to make it perfectly clear that although part #4, #5, and #6 have been uniquely identified, is different, and separate from one another, they all, however, take place on the exact same day or within a 24-hour time period -- just at different times.  (Note:  Historically and culturally, a "traditional Hmong wedding" takes 2-days.  But as a lot of elements have been minimized and outright eliminated, such as all the songs - "cov zaj tshoob", the wedding can be done within a single day.  This conscious decision was made to aid and appropriate time, money, and convenience for everyone involved: the groom and bride's family, the helpers, and relatives etc..)  Also, historically and culturally, some elements of what is nowadays done within part #4 use to be done within part #3.  That is, informing, assigning, and giving the two wedding mediators, best man, bride's maid, and father/representative of the groom -- who really is an uncle, not the biological father -- their task and responsibiliti es per the wedding ceremony, or its desired expectation.  A good example, is the actual presentation of and giving of the "wedding umbrella -- the one tied with the striped ribbon" to the two wedding mediators, or the head mediator.  Again, this portion use to be done, can be done, and has historically been done within part #3.  A reason why it is not done or being done nowadays, is because most of the time, the wedding mediators, nowadays, do not attend nor can they attend, due to work or whatever, part #3 -- the "hu nkauj nyab plig" ceremony/feast.  Plus it is more convenient to simply make it a part of part #4 as all the wedding helpers: two mediators, best man, bride's maid, and father/rep. of the groom are present at part #4.)

Now let us see what the "feast/breakfast to send off the group" -- "rooj mov noj txhawb xa cov mus ua tshoob" -- all entails.  This is step 4.  On the day of the scheduled/planned "wedding ceremony", have a breakfast (feast), to send off the group to the in-laws' for the wedding -- "ua rooj mov noj txhawb xa cov mus ua tshoob".

Foremost, because in actuality, this is the day of the "wedding ceremony" at the in-laws'; therefore required items/things are needed and must be prepared, to be given and taken, with the "wedding group" to the in-laws' upon arrival.

These items are:  1) the wedding umbrella tied with the striped ribbon 2) a blanket neatly folded and tied as a backpack bundle 3) a backpack basket -- "Hmoob lub kawm" -- with the following items/things inside; a bottle of beer/liquor=ib lam fwj cawv, a bag of rice (5-15lbs)=ib hnab txhuv, two/four spoons=ob/plaub rab diav, a bottle of oil=ib poom roj, a bottle of salt=ib poom ntsev, a bag/container of cooked rice=ib pob mov, a knife/Hmong knife=rab riam dab, and lastly a total of 5 whole chickens, thoroughly cleaned and boiled cooked ready for consumption.  (Note:  The cooked rice and a pair of chickens, "ob tug noj su", will be consumed by the "wedding group" at a stopping point before arriving at the in-laws.  The "heads" and "feet" of the consumed pair of chickens "MUST BE SAVED" and presented/given to the in-laws on arrival at the appropriate time.  It serves as evidence -- no explanation needed.  If they are missing for whatever reasons, then the in-laws can "penalize -- nplua" the groom, and/or his "group/family".  The five chickens must be in their own separate white clothe bags that can be sewed in advance.  One pair of chicken will be consume on the way, saving the heads and feet as noted.  The other pair, "ob tug qaib qhia tsiaj", is presented and given to match the in-laws' pair during the feast at the table -- "rooj noj tshoob" -- for consumption.  The sole single chicken, it can be a hen or rooster, though a rooster is preferred, is to be given and offered to the in-laws' who will use it as an "offering to their house spirit".  It is called "tus qaib mus npws poj npws yawm" -- literally "the chicken for the ancestors or grandparents/elders".  The bride's family, or in-laws, will offer and give a similar chicken in return for the same purpose at the conclusion of the "wedding ceremony".

A pig, though not required, is typically killed to make several dishes, and especially "cov ntxuag -- meat dishes" for the morning feast/breakfast to send off the wedding group.  On this day, early in the morning, starting at 5AM, food preparations are made as relatives and said wedding group individuals arrive.  Once everyone has arrived, the table is set, and assigned individuals will take their seats accordingly.  The feast/breakfast will commence and 4-6 drinks will be announced to be drank with the meal.  At the conclusion of the feast/breakfast, the table has been cleared and cleaned, and will immediately be set again, but only with the "meat dishes -- cov ntxuag" this time.  The wedding group, that is: the two wedding mediators, best man, bride's maid, and groom's father/representative will be asked to sit at the forefront of the table in that order.  Once everyone is seated, an individual, tasked with speaking, asking, and assigning responsibiliti es to those individuals will step forth and pour 2-shot glasses/cups of beer/liquor per individual, placing them in a plate and handing them to each individual.  Once each member of the wedding group has received their plate of 2-shot glasses/cups of beer/liquor, this individual will begin making formal requests to thank each individual person.

Here is what one can say:

First to the wedding mediators -- "ob twg mej koob". (From a "sifu".  Note:  The wedding mediators sole purpose and job is to mediate, negotiate, speak/advise, and even at times help resolve or dissolve any/all issues that may arise on behalf of the family or groom's family in this case.)

"Lus tshoob lus kos mas yuav hais lis nod rau neb ob twg tug ua tij/txiv/dab laug/kwv etc..  Hnub nod peb plaj tshoob ncig los txog kev kos ncig los poob.  Yog lid yuav vam neb ob tug mus nrog ua txiv tuam mej koob.  Hnub nod peb plaj tshoob ncig los poob, kev kos txog.  Thiaj yuav vam neb ob tug mus nrog ua txiv tuam mej koob kos.  Yuav vam neb ob tug nrog nkauj nyab nraug vauv mus tis ntsuab tis ze tis neej tis tsav.

Yog lid yuav kom yog lub luag raws lid txoj kab txoj ke ves peb yuav tsum ntauj lis tawv tuaj poob nqa nyog khob dej caw tuaj thov neb lub zog khoov.  Peb yuav tsum ntauj lis tawv tuaj txog nqa khob dej caw tuaj thov lawm neb lub zog tab sis peb tuaj tsis txog neb vaj khiav tsis txog neb tsev, peb tsuas yog hu xov tooj rau neb los yog txib neb yas kab yas kev yas kab yas ncua xwb los neb txhob tu siab nawb.  Kaj ntug tag kis xab theeb lwm hnub neb tsis muaj tub muab nyab tsis muaj ntxhais qua los tseg.  Yog neb muaj ntshai neb vam tsis txog peb tsoom kwv tij txib tub xwb.  Yog nev vam txog peb cov kwv tij txiv tub los peb yuav tuaj pab kom tau neb yuav tsis tso neb tseg no lau mog.  Thov saum neb ob tug txiv tuam mej koob lwm mej koob no laud.  (Then bow/kowtow twice.)

For the best man -- "tub phij laj".  (From a "sifu".  Note:  The best man's sole responsibility is to aid the groom in whatever -- basically just to pair up with him, help where ever and as needed, and most of all drink and bow/kowtow.  Nothing more, nor is more expected.)

"Lus tshoob lus kos mas yuav hais lid no rau koj ua tub.  Hnub nod peb plaj tshoob ncig los txog kev kos ncig los poob.  Yog lid thiaj yuav vam koj pab mus ua tub phij laj mus nrog saib qhua kos pe qhua tshoob.  Hnub nod peb plaj tshoob ncig los poob kev kos ncig los txog.  Thiaj lid yuav vam koj pab mus ua tub phij laj mus nrog saib qhua tshoob pe qhua kos no laud mog.

Yog lid yuav kom yog lub luag raws lid txoj kab txoj ke ves peb yuav tsum ntauj lis tawv tuaj poob nqa nyog khob dej caw tuaj thov neb lub zog khoov.  Peb yuav tsum ntauj lis tawv tuaj txog nqa khob dej caw tuaj thov lawm neb lub zog tab sis peb tuaj tsis txog neb vaj khiav tsis txog neb tsev, peb tsuas yog hu xov tooj rau neb los yog txib neb yas kab yas kev yas kab yas ncua xwb los neb txhob tu siab nawb. 

Kaj ntug tag kis xab theeb lwm hnub koj tsis muaj tub muab nyab tsis muaj ntxhais qua los tseg.  Yog koj muaj ntshai koj vam tsis txog peb tsoom kwv tij txib tub xwb.  Yog koj vam txog peb cov kwv tij txiv tub los peb yuav tuaj pab kom tau koj yuav tsis tso koj tseg no lau mog.  Thov saum koj nawb tub phij laj nawb no laud.  (Then bow/kowtow twice.)

For the bride's maid -- "niam tais ntsuab/ntxhais txais ntsuab".  (From a "sifu".  Note:  The bride's maid's sole responsibility is to pair with the bride, keeping an "eye" on her, and where applicable report on any "misbehavior" she is doing, may be plotting, or scheming to jeopardize and possibly nullify the "wedding ceremony".)

"Lus tshoob lus kos mas yuav hais lid no rau koj ua niam tais ntsuab.  Hnub nod peb plaj tshoob ncig los txog kev kos ncig los poob.  Yog lid thiaj yuav vam koj pab mus ua niam tais ntsuab mus laj niam laj txi laj nraug nws mus nrog saib qhua pom tshoob.  Hnub nod peb plaj tshoob ncig los poob kev kos ncig los txog.  Thiaj lid yuav vam koj pab mus ua niam tais ntsuab mus laj niam laj txi laj nraug nws mus pom tshoob saib qhua no laud mog.
...
..."  (Then bow/kowtow twice.)

For the groom's father/representative -- "niam txiv lav tshoob lav kos".  (From a "sifu".  Note:  The groom's father/representative is solely responsible for resolving and accepting any issues to be negotiated and resolved on behalf of the groom's biological father and/or family or clan even if need be.)

"Lus tshoob lus kos mas yuav tham lid no rau koj ua niam ua txiv lso yog tus lav tshoob lav kos.  Hnub nod yawg/txiv <insert name> tus tub <insert name> nws hlob mus tiav txha ces nws thiaj tau mus muab nyab.  Hnub nod nws hlob tiav cev ces nws thiaj tau mus muab sev.  Hnub nod nws mus txob plaub txob ntug coj poj coj sev los rau hauv vaj hauv tsev.  Yog lid txiv kub yuav cia rau koj ntoo txiv tw yuav cia rau koj suab, plaub xo ncej ntug, lus tshoob lus kos yuav cia rau koj muab.

Zaum nod txiv tw los yuav cia koj saub, txiv kub los yuav cia koj ntoo, ncej xai plaub lus ntug lus tshoob lus kos yuav cia rau koj mloog no laud.  Yuav vam koj mus nrog chawj tshoob chawj kos, chawj niam chawj txiv.  Dub los yuav vam koj mus nrog ntxhua.  Ntuag los yuav vam koj mus nrog ntxiv.  Yuav vam koj coj koj lub plhu txiaj mus ntaiv hnub plhu ntsig mus ntaiv hli kom peb tau neej tau tsav tau kev ntoj kev thuv.  Koj tus txiaj ntsig peb yuav ris txiaj ntsha peb yuav nqa nod laud mog koj tus ua niam ua txiv tus coj tshoob coj kos.  Thov saum koj nawb mog.  (Then bow/kowtow twice.)

Once everyone has been addressed and formally thanked, they are next specifically informed and tasked to perform their exact duties.  Yes, after each individual is addressed, they need to be bowed/kowtowed to.  Sorry, the verbiage here will not be given as they are quite lengthy and will take some time to type out.  Just know that this needs to be done immediately following the initial phase, which is the formal request and thanking of their aid/help and/or role.

Once this is done, the giving of the umbrella to the "wedding mediators" is done.  In addition, the money that will be required is also given to them.  One can give them all the money, a total of $7000-$8000+, but most if not all of the time, the wedding mediators will only accept and take about $1000-$1200 -- the amount needed/required at the start and to begin the "wedding negotiations" or conversations.  The difference or remaining amount then is either given to the groom's father/representative or an immediate family member to hold on to and take to the in-laws' following the "wedding group".  After this and once the "wedding mediators" has received the umbrella and money, they will then ask the groom and best man to come forth and bow/kowtow the following before setting off to the "in-laws'" to begin the "wedding ceremony".

The following persons/individuals will need to be bowed/kowtowed to:  father=txiv, mother=niam, elder uncles/aunts=niam hlob txiv hlob, younger uncles/aunts=niam ntxawm txiv ntxawm, brothers/sisters-in-laws=ib tsoom niam tij thiab tij laug, leader/clan leader=tus coj tshoob coj kos, great/grandparents=poj kooj yawg koob, the house spirit/ancestors=ncej dab ncej qhua.

The following can be said per person/individual to bow/kowtow to:

"Txiv ov (just change the name here for each person/individual)!  Hnub nod yuav mus xaus tshoob xaus kos.  Nyob hauv tsev ua siab ntwb ntev tos no laud mog." (Then the groom/best man bow/kowtow twice.)

Once all the above is done then bow/kowtow to the "spirit of the city/state/country" as follows:

"Koj xeeb teb xeeb chaw, <insert City name> lid teb chaws, <insert State name> lid teb chaws, teb chaw <insert Country>.  Hnub nod peb yuav mus xaus tshoob xaus kos yog lid nrog pov fwm pov yawm kom peb mus kaj mus huv mus dawb mus zoo, mus kom tsis ntsib plaub ntsib ntug tsis ntsib xaiv ntsib lus kom tau tshoob tau kos rov los kom txog vaj txog tsev no laud!"  (Then the groom/best man bow/kowtow twice.)

The wedding group then gathers all the things needed and begin to part for the in-laws'.  At the offset and at the in-laws, they will line up and proceed in the following order; the head mediator first=tuam mej koob ua ntej, the vice mediator=lwm mej koob, best man carrying the backpack basket=tub phij laj, the groom carrying the blanket=tus vauv, the bride=tus nyab, and finally the bride's maid=niam tais ntsuab/ntxhais txais ntsuab.  This lineup will exit the groom's house and enter the in-laws' house in this exact order.  If not, the in-laws may or can "penalize -- nplua" the groom and/or his family.

Once the wedding group has left the residency, those remaining typically will follow suit -- the men that is, once the wedding group has arrived at the in-laws'.  Some family members -- the women that is, can and do stay behind to make preparations for the wedding groups' return upon concluding the "wedding ceremony" at the in-laws'.

The wedding group after departing, but before arriving at the in-laws', must stop along the way and have "brunch" -- typically referred to as lunch, "noj su" -- and this is where a pair of the chickens along with the cooked rice is brought out and ate by everyone.  Remember, the heads and feet of the chickens must be saved to be presented and given to the in-laws' upon arrival when asked.  The four drumstick with the thighs  attached are to be given to the groom, bride, best man, and bride's maid.  The two wedding mediators eat the other parts of the chicken.  A very important part of this meal, is an offering to the spirit of the land (city/township), that is "laig dab", consisting of a small portion of the rice and meat -- typically whatever fits in a spoon.  One of the mediator will do this before or during the meal.  After the meal, the group sets off to the in-laws'.

This concludes "4.  On the day of the scheduled/planned "wedding ceremony", have a breakfast (feast), to send off the group to the inlaws' for the wedding -- "ua rooj mov noj txhawb xa cov mus ua tshoob"

Ua tsaug ...  :)


« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 06:32:13 PM by chidorix0x »

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Offline theking

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Re: Hmong wedding process and the different roles people play in Hmong weddings
« Reply #50 on: September 10, 2013, 01:14:53 AM »
(Btw -- as one can clearly see by now, a "traditional Hmong wedding", is more involved and in-depth ceremonially than what "squawkers" have squawked incessantly of and about per their minimal, limited, and "general info" Google/WWW rants, links, searches, etc. ...  :2funny:.)

Funny you brought that up because Google also found this thread so it must mean that it is also full of "minimal, limited, and general info"  ;D.



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Offline yuknowthat

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Re: Hmong wedding process and the different roles people play in Hmong weddings
« Reply #51 on: September 10, 2013, 08:00:04 AM »
thanks Chi, but ntau ua luaj.. nyeem nyeem mob hlwb thiab qhov muag tag li..



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Offline lilly

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Re: Hmong wedding process and the different roles people play in Hmong weddings
« Reply #52 on: September 10, 2013, 10:48:01 AM »
+1 

Thank you, Chidorix0x.  Awaiting parts 5 and 6...   :)



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Offline chidorix0x

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Re: Hmong wedding process and the different roles people play in Hmong weddings
« Reply #53 on: September 10, 2013, 04:19:26 PM »
thanks Chi, but ntau ua luaj.. nyeem nyeem mob hlwb thiab qhov muag tag li..

 :) ... look on the bright side, once you "nyeem nyeem tag", you will know all the nuts and bolts of a "traditional Hmong wedding" practically inside and out, from start to end -- over 90%, if not more.  And I can assure you, there is no book, article, or other Google/WWW link, search, or forum/blog that is this thorough -- at least none I personally know of or have seen, having seen and read most if not all of them already.  Most, as already said, mainly just focus on the "wedding ceremony" itself, and even that, they are not as thorough, explaining each step or process etc..  So be thankful and quit complaining and whining, before I quit altogether ...  :2funny: .

Trust me, it is easier to read versus having to "write", type it all up, for all of you unappreciative ill-informed youngings.  Just be grateful, Lilly was gracious enough to politely and genuinely ask, which is mainly why I am doing this ...  O0 .

Ua tsaug ...  :)



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Offline chidorix0x

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Re: Hmong wedding process and the different roles people play in Hmong weddings
« Reply #54 on: September 10, 2013, 06:04:11 PM »
Funny you brought that up because Google also found this thread so it must mean that it is also full of "minimal, limited, and general info"  ;D.

Google/WWW "squawker", here is a key word search, specifically "a traditional hmong wedding" and its link/finding(s) ...  :idiot2: ...  :2funny:

traditional Hmong marriage process - University of Wisconsin-Eau ...

linked to article:  http://www.uwec.edu/mdorsher/hmongmatters/arnold2.htm -- :idiot2: ...  :2funny: ...  :knuppel2: (LMAO!!! )



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Offline theking

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Re: Hmong wedding process and the different roles people play in Hmong weddings
« Reply #55 on: September 10, 2013, 08:03:12 PM »
Google/WWW "squawker", here is a key word search, specifically "a traditional hmong wedding" and its link/finding(s) ...  :idiot2: ...  :2funny:

traditional Hmong marriage process - University of Wisconsin-Eau ...

linked to article:  http://www.uwec.edu/mdorsher/hmongmatters/arnold2.htm -- :idiot2: ...  :2funny: ...  :knuppel2: (LMAO!!! )

well what do you know, even chlor0x is asking Google  ;D. Google is a friend indeed.  O0

Still much better than chlor0x old method (days late with nothing but cricket sounds).  ;D



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