Hmong Shamanism Should be Eliminated

[Gracified23]

The food is to honor them, as if they were here in spirit when we share meals. It is not to literally feed them. They do not remain in the spirit world for an eternity, they live there for only a lifetime. After their lifetime in the spirit world they return to the creator. The creator will go over their lifetimes (earth/spirit world) and then from there, the soul will see what lessons it has learned and what lessons it will learn next. And onto the next lifetime, reincarnate on earth, and the process repeats itself. Some souls learn quicker than others, which is why we see some mature teens and then immature adults.

Ok.. but logically speaking couldn't they just plant their own crops in the afterlife like how they used to while they were on earth?

I've heard mix opinions about this. Some say they live on and have jobs and families just like while they were on earth. Some say different. They have jobs yet they need to pinch off from the living?... I guess they are going through some kind of depression in the afterlife. 

[dlabtsi_os]

Take everything what I am about to post a grain of salt. I will try to be as rationale as possible.  As for burden of proof? Well let just say that Shamanism is in a way consider archaic practices in human history. You have to remember that Hmong Shamanism goes way back, so things like we use today may not be what we used back then. The real reason in shamanism why we give food is not we respect or honor. That comes later.

The real reason why we offer food: It is an act to convince that "We are communicating." How does human communicate? Do we just tell them to talk? Well when comes to gather and hunting life, food are essential for communication. And food and drinks work very well.

Now critics may ask "What about the poor and starving." How will they communicate or perform these rituals? Well they really don't have an answer. However, the idea of burning bones, paper, houses later emerge. But before we get to those, I want to be straight with the burning. The burning allows to clear spoilage and thus more room for food to be cultivate. Many people maybe familar with "Slash-and-Burn." Now the essence of burning is been clear, on to object. As object having like paper weren't invented yet, things like bones, rocks, woods were use as substitute. Because they weren't as spoil as food and lasted longer.

And again all these are burden of proof for me. And I have to provide records of incident happens. Well I can't so take a grain of salt.

And some critic will ask, "How did we came up with the idea of the "Spiritual World." Well I don't have an answer on that.

@Gracified If I was born in a Hmong Christian family, I might support Christianity, but I am not. I am not against it either and I am ignorant of it as well. So yeah.

http://www.everyculture.com/multi/Ha-La/Hmong-Americans.html

[saki saki]

If that were true, then there would be tons of freeloader ancestors who won't have food, cuz they ain't getting it from the mass population of the world.

Suppose what you said was real couldn't they just plant their own agriculture in the after life? 

I can not answer your question to wat you would like to hear, however I can say tis. And these are from accounts of wat I've heard from the OG's. Wen you go you have noting, no money, food, thous why we fold papers monies and offer food and boozes,
Like Samaria X Master Hiko would say " no one should reach their vonna  without the taste of  good Sake on their lips".

Anyways back to the topic::: Just like the living the dead still needs help and guidance. For some they are lost and thous one of the many reasons why the drum is use for @ the funerals.

However the young generations don't even know how to do a garden, how are they to even know where to began with lol

[Gracified23]

I can not answer your question to wat you would like to hear, however I can say tis. And these are from accounts of wat I've heard from the OG's. Wen you go you have noting, no money, food, thous why we fold papers monies and offer food and boozes,
Like Samaria X Master Hiko would say " no one should reach their vonna  without the taste of  good Sake on their lips".

Anyways back to the topic::: Just like the living the dead still needs help and guidance. For some they are lost and thous one of the many reasons why the drum is use for @ the funerals.

However the young generations don't even know how to do a garden, how are they to even know where to began with lol

In the afterlife, there is either heaven or hell ..and from the way you described there it seems to be that they are not in a very good place. I know there are a number of people that claim contact with deceased loved ones. This is dangerous and likely familiar spirits (demons). 

God calls contact with the dead an abomination. Did you know this?

[saki saki]

No I do not:: Plz do tell me of what you mean of this?

Hmmm.. talking to the dead or the sleeps. I know it is dangerous to talk to the unknown. However when the shaman does his/her thing they are using their spirits/ their own guide them. to do what is needed to be done.

Have you ever wonder about the Indians. They are very much a like us Hmong ppl. Their shaman is similar to ours... The shaman doesn't kill the ghost but to simply guide them to where they need to go
nothing more nothing less.

I'm not going to say that shaman is bad or Christianity is good.The point is that no matter what happen or the out-come is. We HmnG can not forget our roots or where we come from. Thous whyJapan is all fawk up do to the Westernize.

In a sense I see that the Doctors are kind of like GOD. They can save a life or take a life.
Just like how I see the Shamans. It's all balance. But do not ever forget your roots.

[saki saki]

Sounds like a fresh off the college boy talking smack here?

So lets say (example): your relative is just recovering from an illness. And the doctor tells you that he is not eat as much as they would like him to. And that we need to cut him up and stick a feeding tube in him.
Would you do as what the doctor tells you. Or would you look up to the sky and ask what is best?

So tell me... Science point out that evolution involved a monkey to human being. But the bible states that GOD created us man? So Science has more back grounds then the bible? plus there are Evidence of dinosaur bones tells us that dinosaur once roamed the earth. Philosophy and Science are two separate things. Buddha is not a GOD. But why do people say Buddha bless you.
So which one is the better Religion?
Science?
Philosophy; the word of the wise?
Shaman?
Atheist?
Catholic?
Roman kings.

 

[dlabtsi_os]

Sounds like a fresh off the college boy talking smack here?

Sometimes I question myself, why I even go to college. Not that is a bad thing.

So lets say (example): your relative is just recovering from an illness. And the doctor tells you that he is not eat as much as they would like him to. And that we need to cut him up and stick a feeding tube in him.
Would you do as what the doctor tells you. Or would you look up to the sky and ask what is best?

So tell me... Science point out that evolution involved a monkey to human being. But the bible states that GOD created us man? So Science has more back grounds then the bible? plus there are Evidence of dinosaur bones tells us that dinosaur once roamed the earth. Philosophy and Science are two separate things. Buddha is not a GOD. But why do people say Buddha bless you.
So which one is the better Religion?
Science?
Philosophy; the word of the wise?
Shaman?
Atheist?
Catholic?
Roman kings.

I love science as much as the next guy, but goddamn it can get annoying when people use science to diss Christianity. Christian use bible to diss Shamanism. Shaman use slander diss off medical doctors/Christian. I am not saying all are like that. But it just makes me facepalm.  Fortunately, I have a low attention span, so I brush off and move on. 

In the end what can you do about ignorance or stubbornness. 

[saki saki]

^^^ you should go watch Ancient aliens on the history channel. I love watching history.

[saki saki]

First of all Shaman does not claim that they are GODS. Nor do they go around preaching that they are better then the next person. They are healers weather it's spiritually or not.

And this is the best examples between the two:

Shamans don't preach nor do they ask you to follow them nor do they use the ALL MIGHTY GOD's name to start a war. Unlike Christianity where they want to brain wash you to join their church or start a war in the name of GOD.

Don't get me wrong on this, I too believe in the LORD, but tell me why must I pay a due's fee at the end of the year just to re-new my membership for the church, otherwise my name is taking out of the church? I understand that Bills must be pay for. However with the donation every Sunday. It's all cash handle? Just like the Lao Family, how do you not know if some church claiming Jesus believers are not scamming you out of your good will donation.


(I believe in GOD by reading the bible in my own ways. I don't go around preaching that one is better then the other but to co-exist with one another).
{Proverbs, Chapter 10.12: Hate stirs up trouble, but love forgives all offense}.
{ Proverbs, Chapter 11.12: It is foolish to speak scornfully of others. If you are smart, you will keep quiet}.

Second of all Science can prove that Chimps has 98% of the human gene. The missing link was Lucy, the oldest fossil monkey found in Africa. Evidence don't lie. Have you ever watch History channel? If not you should. You might learn a few good advice here and there. LOLz..
You are blinded in your own disbelief that science can prove you wrong.

Weather I believe in Shaman or not. I still believe that they are spiritual healers and can do stuff that Science can not prove.

BTW let's get your fact's straight: Shaman do not claim that they are GOD's nor do they claim that they worship the DEVIL.

(You see you are blinded with the westernize people. Just like how they brain washed all the Indians to convert to Christianity, Thous turning them among themselves. Like their Shaman is bad, and misleading and putting fear in their heads. that is why they are all mess up and has no more Roots. They are nothing but trash compare to what they once were. A proud tribes who Romes free in their scarce land).

Young, unwise people will say stuff like this, But they themselves have no idea what they are talking about.

Hmong Shaman's are spiritual healers. Cancer can not be heal even with all the church people praying nor shaman's healer's.. can not undo what is physically there.

So let me ask you this. Do you believe in Aliens/ UFO? If not go watch Ancient Aliens. But be warn science is involved with backing evidence.

[saki saki]

 I expected nothing less from you to have a come back such as this. You are so eager to prove me wrong and that you are always righteous.
{Proverbs. chapter 9:7} If you correct a conceited man you will only be insulted. Hahaaa.

 I have an uncle which we grew up together, But now he dis-owned my family due to that he believes that we are not worthy because we don't follow in his foot steps. And is no longer going to church. He wouldn't even step foot in the house to see my old man in his desired needed time. So tell me is this how Christianity are taught?  Or do you put yourself higher then everyone else?

Durning the Vietnam war, it was my old man that carried him on his shoulder all the way to Thailand and then into the USA. You see most Christianity people that I knew off never opened their mouth to speak bad about others or are never dis-respect other's by Not going into other peoples houses, even though the family doesn't believe in GOD. Unlike some of you who thinks that they are so righteousness that they most prove to always be right.

{Proverbs: Chapter 12:16.} When a fool is annoyed, he quickly lets it be known. Smart people will ignore an insult.

[night912]

I expected nothing less from you to have a come back such as this. You are so eager to prove me wrong and that you are always righteous.
{Proverbs. chapter 9:7} If you correct a conceited man you will only be insulted. Hahaaa.

 I have an uncle which we grew up together, But now he dis-owned my family due to that he believes that we are not worthy because we don't follow in his foot steps. And is no longer going to church. He wouldn't even step foot in the house to see my old man in his desired needed time. So tell me is this how Christianity are taught?  Or do you put yourself higher then everyone else?

Durning the Vietnam war, it was my old man that carried him on his shoulder all the way to Thailand and then into the USA. You see most Christianity people that I knew off never opened their mouth to speak bad about others or are never dis-respect other's by Not going into other peoples houses, even though the family doesn't believe in GOD. Unlike some of you who thinks that they are so righteousness that they most prove to always be right.

{Proverbs: Chapter 12:16.} When a fool is annoyed, he quickly lets it be known. Smart people will ignore an insult.

Here's your explanation. Christianity believes in this.

Deuteronomy 13:6-10 New International Version (NIV)

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

That's their moral standards.

[saki saki]

I wasn't eager to disprove you. I was coming from an agreement or disagreement. You on the other hand, assume that I was about to destroy you, but I didn't. I only came to disprove shamanism that it lacks a foundation of a creator. Who is your boss in the spiritual realm? Are there many bosses or just one? If there many, then your a polytheist. Therefore, I understand why you were rejected because I assume you did the same thing of what Joseph Smith say. Therefore, I am conceited, I am just a speculator, giving advice of what you should do and what you should not do. Again, being righteous can be a weapon to the evil people because I know that most victims that graduated from school knows in their hearts that their enemies can't hide their faces from shame. Shame is the ultimate weapons that stings like b-i-t-c-h!

Again, shamanism lacks morality, shamanism lacks a founder, shamanism lacks spiritual growth with meaning through someone or something, and I can go on further if you want. Again, you are a pagan. Accept the TRUTH!

If I was a Pagan, then that mean you are a Hypocrite: Always gossiping about Christianity, but they are the first to cast the stone, without judgement. Just because other people don't worship  your God(s) or goes to church automatically make them guilty. Of worshipping the Shaman or Devil.

And we can go on and on about the bible, Cuz you seems to know the words of the book, just as much or maybe even more then me. So I have to come to terms with you on that and that alone..

However I want to explain a bit about the shaman(s), I myself do not know how it works, nor do we follow them or worship them, but seek help when needed.

I'm just glad that I was able to debate with another fellow who knows the words of the book. And we can go and on about shamanism and God  for 1,000 years from now and we won't come to a conclusion. So the best that we can all do is leave it at that. Because there will always be two sides. 

[hmongperson]

All shamans will gladly convert when Christians can narrow the choices down to 1 or 2 sects. Kind of hard not to doubt Christians and their teachings when they have thousands of ways to to teach it. And, not every way agrees with the other.

Christianity is like a person with a multiple personality disorder. Different stories all told by one person.

[hmongperson]

mmm, not really. Christianity has multiple weapons to go against their sword with other sword that can defeat them. It's like saying they use bronze to kill. Well, you can use iron to defeat them.

Multiples weapons with multiple "experts" claiming they know best how to use the. Perfect example of the hectic nature that is Christianity. Trying getting a Catholic and a Protestant into the same room. Better yet, a Protestant and a Mormon. Or a Catholic and a Mormon. Ask ten Christians to explain the same verse and you'll get ten different answers.  I'm just not a very big fan of the odds.

You have a 1 out of however many Christians groups out there, chance of following the "right" rules as set forth by the Christian God. Like I said, the odds just don't seem to be in the favor of a potential convertee.

[hmongperson]

Mormonism isn't Christian. Please, go some research about Joseph Smith. I am an evangelist arminianist. So, if you give me a verse and compare to theirs, I'd say about 80% of the time speaks the same truth. 20% are the ones that never READS the bible and would give another interpretation . For example, Jehovah's witness don't believe Heaven is like the afterlife. They believe Heaven is here. Well, I find that to be wrong. Therefore, if you compare a verse about Heaven, almost EVERYONE say that Heaven is from God and above the sky. That means that we do speak the same thing on the 80% side. The 20% are the cults or the ones that never read the bible in their whole life.

I thought Christians are those who believes in Jesus Christ. Thus "Christ"ian. See, there we go again. You keep reiterating how hectic Christianity is. It's funny how Christian groups likes to claim this group or that group as not being Christian. But, in the eyes of the non-Christian they're all the, and they are, Christians.