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Author Topic: Hmong Shamanism Should be Eliminated  (Read 58823 times)

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Offline Vandal Savage

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Re: Hmong Shamanism Should be Eliminated
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2013, 07:29:17 AM »
Christianity is not a religion.  It's a cult. 



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night912

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Re: Hmong Shamanism Should be Eliminated
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2013, 10:31:59 AM »
A cult is a religion.



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Offline Reporter

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Re: Hmong Shamanism Should be Eliminated
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2013, 02:36:33 PM »



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Offline joot

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Re: Hmong Shamanism Should be Eliminated
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2013, 12:37:13 AM »
How can Christianity be a cult when more than half the world's population adhere to some form of belief in God?  Here's wiki's definition of what a cult is:

"The word cult in current usage is a pejorative term for a new religious movement[1] or other group whose beliefs or practices are considered abnormal or bizarre by the larger society.[2] The word cult is used as an ad hominem attack against groups with simply differing doctrines or practices, and without a clear or consistent definition.[3]..."

Christianity is NOT considered to be abnormal or bizarre by the larger society...



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chidorix0x

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Re: Hmong Shamanism Should be Eliminated
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2013, 06:26:22 PM »
How can Christianity be a cult when more than half the world's population adhere to some form of belief in God?  Here's wiki's definition of what a cult is:

"The word cult in current usage is a pejorative term for a new religious movement[1] or other group whose beliefs or practices are considered abnormal or bizarre by the larger society.[2] The word cult is used as an ad hominem attack against groups with simply differing doctrines or practices, and without a clear or consistent definition.[3]..."

Christianity is NOT considered to be abnormal or bizarre by the larger society...

 ???  ...   :2funny:  ...   :idiot2:

David Karesh, Moonies, Mormons, and/or Johovah's Witnesses etc. -- are they not cults?  (Oh, I forgot, Wiki is the "all be all" --   :D)

fyi --  A cult is any derivative or deviation of a larger, more popular, and generally more accepted social norm -- namely a belief or religion.  At least that is the general "rule of thump" or perspective.  And yes, it has a pejorative connation.

Ua tsaug  ...   :)



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Offline Reporter

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Re: Hmong Shamanism Should be Eliminated
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2013, 08:30:10 PM »
I still think shamanism is just an aspect of animism. Spirits are part of animism. So is the demon.



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AverageTou

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Re: Hmong Shamanism Should be Eliminated
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2013, 01:24:00 AM »
Many of you grew up experiencing Hmong shamanism~  The hmong culture revolves around shamanism; the spiritual world of our ancestors and the dead.  This religion carries a deep root that has been practices for centuries. 

But there is a problem with this religion!  Especially if you're living in America.  One major problem with Hmong shamanism is that it doesn't teach people morals.  Hmong shamanism is a form of communication with the spiritual world.  If a person doesn't believe in spirituality - Hmong religion is just one big joke!

But lets dissect the religion into 3 catagories. 

1) Does this religion engage people's morality and humanity?  No
2) Does this religion help give people enlightment and salvation?  No
3) Does this religion create fear and caution?  Yes

Why are you afraid when an elder says "your spirit has left your body."  This fear and panic creates even more stress- and could cause you to become more sick.  The "fear" tatic. 

Why doesn't Hmong Shamanism teach morality and good judgement~  If it did; the hmong culture would be very different.  Certain religion teaches "right from wrong"  but Hmong shamanism lacks those teachings.  Shamanism teaches fear and prevention.  It doesn't teach moral values that can build a person to have good judgement.

If a person lacks good judgement; there will be violence and destruction~  We see this in many Hmong families. 

Religion is suppose to build a foundation for the people/family/community.  If a religion is only used as a "fear" tactic and a tool for healing.  There is no value~ in it.  The truth; spiritual healing is does not work~ it's a form of mental healing. 

If you raise your children around Shamanism; make sure to teach them good values and behaviors.  Many hmong parents forget to teach moral values to their children~ this always leads to abuse and violence in the future.



Hello,

You are right and I agree with you on some of the problems you mentioned there.  However you are wrong on many accounts regarding Hmong beliefs and moral values.   Here is why:

The problem of Hmong Shamanism in USA (living in the city with stereotype/disrespectful neighbors)  - 1)  slaughter pig/goat/dog in your home is considered animal cruelty, burning of paper/incense 2)  the morning or evening chanting of the Shaman, banging of the drum-plate, bells etc... is considered neighborhood disturbing  3)  the often gathers of the Hmong people in one's place for an spiritual/cultural/traditional celebration or practice is considered too often & parking is a problem.  However, if you lived in the city its a different story

Now, here is where you're wrong: WTY Shamanism is just a belief/ritual which requires sacrifices of specific animals and has nothing to do with moral values.  In fact, Hmong morals and values are just as fair and justify as other civilize cultural too
1) Does this religion engage people's morality and humanity? its a cultural practice that require animal sacrifice, before they kill the animal they have to pay and negotiate an agreement with the animal
2) Does this religion help give people enlightment and salvation? enlightenment? to a certain extend, salvation? thats a different thing (sounded like Christians belief) but when a person dies it is sent to the ancestors in Heaven for reincarnation (after going through the underworld for judgment) 
3) Does this religion create fear and caution? depends on the person (shaman) good Shaman gives good feedback, bad Shaman gives bad feedback just like good pastor gives good sermons, bad pastor gives bad sermons

Here are some bad morals that some bad pastor today teaches (from the Bible):

Matthew 12: 47-48

Someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You." But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, "Who is My mother and who are My brothers?" And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, "Behold My mother and My brothers!…

Msg - You should disown your parents and siblings and leave home to be with your friends and call then your family.  Separations of families and relatives. WE SEE THIS IN HMONG COMMUNITY IN USA AND PARTS OF THE WORLD WHERE THERE ARE HMONG CHRISTIANS, BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY'RE GOING TO HEAVEN AND WE'RE NOT (HEAVEN AND HELL DOES NOT EXIST, NEITHER PROVEN OR NOT)

Deuteronomy 22:23-24

 “If there is a betrothed virgin, and a man meets her in the city and lies with her, then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.

Msg - If you rape your neighbor's wife and know that you'd get caught, guess what? you could drug or tape a 13 year girl so that no one would hear her scream and then force yourself into her, so she'll be stone to death with you.

Exodus 12:29-30

And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed.  Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died.

Msg - Its OK to kill anyone and destroy everything they have because they don't believe in what you believe.

The list goes on...

Now, good morals Hmong in general, no education involve (not related to Shaman or God):

1.  Respect your parents for they give birth to you, wipe your butt, feed you rice, chew solid food for you when you can't chew yet, sheltered you when the sun is up/rain's pour etc... respect your grandparents for they give birth to your parents, great-grand and so on
2.  Do good then someday you'll receive good, do bad then someday you'd receive bad
3.  Help others with your knowledge, wealth, or just time and effort/strength and they help you in return
etc...

To sum it up, if Hmong Christians kept believing in this ideology that Jesus does exist dies and raise from the dead and will do the same for them too, then Hmong Christians will remain in the world of fantasy and the separations of families will continues...



« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 01:50:40 AM by AverageTou »

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Offline Vandal Savage

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Re: Hmong Shamanism Should be Eliminated
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2013, 07:13:39 AM »
If you base your facts from wiki, then it's obvious you're not very smart.   :idiot2:



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Love2Kiss

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Re: Hmong Shamanism Should be Eliminated
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2013, 01:39:19 PM »
Hello,

You are right and I agree with you on some of the problems you mentioned there.  However you are wrong on many accounts regarding Hmong beliefs and moral values.   Here is why:

The problem of Hmong Shamanism in USA (living in the city with stereotype/disrespectful neighbors)  - 1)  slaughter pig/goat/dog in your home is considered animal cruelty, burning of paper/incense 2)  the morning or evening chanting of the Shaman, banging of the drum-plate, bells etc... is considered neighborhood disturbing  3)  the often gathers of the Hmong people in one's place for an spiritual/cultural/traditional celebration or practice is considered too often & parking is a problem.  However, if you lived in the city its a different story

Now, here is where you're wrong: WTY Shamanism is just a belief/ritual which requires sacrifices of specific animals and has nothing to do with moral values.  In fact, Hmong morals and values are just as fair and justify as other civilize cultural too
1) Does this religion engage people's morality and humanity? its a cultural practice that require animal sacrifice, before they kill the animal they have to pay and negotiate an agreement with the animal
2) Does this religion help give people enlightment and salvation? enlightenment? to a certain extend, salvation? thats a different thing (sounded like Christians belief) but when a person dies it is sent to the ancestors in Heaven for reincarnation (after going through the underworld for judgment) 
3) Does this religion create fear and caution? depends on the person (shaman) good Shaman gives good feedback, bad Shaman gives bad feedback just like good pastor gives good sermons, bad pastor gives bad sermons

Here are some bad morals that some bad pastor today teaches (from the Bible):

Matthew 12: 47-48

Someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You." But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, "Who is My mother and who are My brothers?" And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, "Behold My mother and My brothers!…

Msg - You should disown your parents and siblings and leave home to be with your friends and call then your family.  Separations of families and relatives. WE SEE THIS IN HMONG COMMUNITY IN USA AND PARTS OF THE WORLD WHERE THERE ARE HMONG CHRISTIANS, BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY'RE GOING TO HEAVEN AND WE'RE NOT (HEAVEN AND HELL DOES NOT EXIST, NEITHER PROVEN OR NOT)

Deuteronomy 22:23-24

 “If there is a betrothed virgin, and a man meets her in the city and lies with her, then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.

Msg - If you rape your neighbor's wife and know that you'd get caught, guess what? you could drug or tape a 13 year girl so that no one would hear her scream and then force yourself into her, so she'll be stone to death with you.

Exodus 12:29-30

And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed.  Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died.

Msg - Its OK to kill anyone and destroy everything they have because they don't believe in what you believe.

The list goes on...

Now, good morals Hmong in general, no education involve (not related to Shaman or God):

1.  Respect your parents for they give birth to you, wipe your butt, feed you rice, chew solid food for you when you can't chew yet, sheltered you when the sun is up/rain's pour etc... respect your grandparents for they give birth to your parents, great-grand and so on
2.  Do good then someday you'll receive good, do bad then someday you'd receive bad
3.  Help others with your knowledge, wealth, or just time and effort/strength and they help you in return
etc...

To sum it up, if Hmong Christians kept believing in this ideology that Jesus does exist dies and raise from the dead and will do the same for them too, then Hmong Christians will remain in the world of fantasy and the separations of families will continues...



Ahh, I agree with you lol.  O0




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Wi_sweetguy

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Re: Hmong Shamanism Should be Eliminated
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2013, 02:22:02 AM »
I thought afterlife was crazy, but you are just hateful and ungraceful for your hmong race.  I feel sorry for you HE.  Shame on you for trying to eliminate the only thing Hmongs have known for centuries.  You should look in the mirror and take your right hand, second finger and lick your tongue then stick it to the top of your cheek and slide it downward to your chin.



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asadfg

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Re: Hmong Shamanism Should be Eliminated
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2013, 09:10:51 AM »
unless the religion u convert to makes you immortal .. makes no difference what shit u do or dont belee in. yall fckn die in the end and thats it ......... worhsip a damn rock n call it a 'new faith' if u want. invent yo own damn funeral n weeding rites if you want. just dont expect others to start shitting on their own traditions n convert to yours  :sleepy3:




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Offline Reporter

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Re: Hmong Shamanism Should be Eliminated
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2013, 10:17:03 PM »
If you base your facts from wiki, then it's obvious you're not very smart.   :idiot2:

 O0 O0 O0



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Offline Reporter

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Re: Hmong Shamanism Should be Eliminated
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2013, 10:18:44 PM »
unless the religion u convert to makes you immortal .. makes no difference what shit u do or dont belee in. yall fckn die in the end and thats it ......... worhsip a damn rock n call it a 'new faith' if u want. invent yo own damn funeral n weeding rites if you want. just dont expect others to start shitting on their own traditions n convert to yours  :sleepy3:



You know, you are kind of right. The U.S. Supreme Court often sustains claims of religious belief of all kinds. You can think of anything that may sound weird. But if you say that's your group's religion, the Supreme Court will most likely protect it.



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"...
The snooping eye sees everything."--Ono No Komachi, Japanese Poetess (emphasis)

michaelvang85

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Re: Hmong Shamanism Should be Eliminated
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2013, 11:46:18 PM »
A cult is a religion.

A religion is just a cult with the leader that's deceased.



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3 Years Time

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Re: Hmong Shamanism Should be Eliminated
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2013, 03:30:11 AM »
How can Christianity be a cult when more than half the world's population adhere to some form of belief in God?  Here's wiki's definition of what a cult is:

"The word cult in current usage is a pejorative term for a new religious movement[1] or other group whose beliefs or practices are considered abnormal or bizarre by the larger society.[2] The word cult is used as an ad hominem attack against groups with simply differing doctrines or practices, and without a clear or consistent definition.[3]..."

Christianity is NOT considered to be abnormal or bizarre by the larger society...
Christianity is a cult that murdered millions of people in the name of their god. If any cult today murdered enough people, surely their followers will produce enough offspring to become a "major" religion. That's how Christianity will be remembered by future generations of human beings who will be less gullible and more intelligent. You can be spiritual without believing that you know everything about the universe. Telling others that your way is the only way is pure ignorance.



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