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Author Topic: Those who are against "bride price"  (Read 9543 times)

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Offline chidorix0x

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Re: Those who are against "bride price"
« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2014, 07:18:12 PM »
Do you understand the reasoning for the head price?  From what I understand the money is used as leverage by the parents of the bride to ensure her husband loves her(kind of like a down payment so if you default on your loan you have something to lose).  I know a lot of pple think of it as paying for a person but that's not what it is supposed to be.  Once my dad sees that the couple is stable (X amount of years and X amount of kids) and have been together for long enough, he usually gives the head price money back to his daughter and son in law.

Epic Fail.  Who -- what OG, elder, or traditional Hmong practitioner -- told you or made up this claim for you to speak so idiotically as such?  (Most likely, it is a Western-bred psychosis claiming to have Hmong sensitivity, LOL!  Khev-zim tiag tiag.)



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Offline chidorix0x

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Re: Those who are against "bride price"
« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2014, 07:34:10 PM »
Hmong people and their ignorance never cease to amuse me. You guys got it wrong, and your parents got it wrong, their parents got it wrong, etc.... It goes way back to years of misinformation and ignorance. There was a price, but it was never called a "bride price" or "head price". And it was never meant to mean anything similar to that.

The "bride price" came into existence because of greedy Hmongs who used it to to force their wives to stay with them, or greedy inlaws who used it to force their son-in-law to continuing keeping thier lazy wives.

If one looked closely at the "zaj tshoob" and the many stories that we have to explain things one will realize that the "bride price" does not exist. A certain price does exist, but it is not meant to serve the purpose that we use it for today. Most "meej koob" don't know this because they are not tasked to comprehend the verses, but rather to regurgitate. Mind you, it takes very little brain power to regurgitate. Or simply most "meej koob" just over look the matter because it is not the "norm".

After peering through countless books of "zaj tshoob" and asking numerous elders this is the conclusion I came to. When a Hmong man marries a Hmong woman he must pay a certain amount. The money is paid to show his appreciation to her parents for giving birth to her and raising her so that on that day he is able to marry her. The groom knows that taking his wife away from her family will cause a certain amount of physical burden on her family, primarily physical labor. The money is meant to try and ease that burden by having the bride's parents use it to help hire people to help them farm if need be, or in most cases to marry a bride for their own son.

This is the reason a groom pays a price. Hmongs have a circular way of thinking, like a belief in karma. The price, in sense, helps to keep the ball rolling. But, along the way Hmongs started to getting greedy and thus we end up with the perverted "bride price" that we have today. We have drifted so far from the original ideal that now the notion of a "price" is being seen as archaic and bad.

The Hmong culture and Hmong way of life is about brotherhood, sisterhood, and family. Women use to be held in high prestige since it use to be common knowledge that it is the woman that makes the man. Who is it that ultimately ends up saving and elevating the life of the orphan boy? One use to be able to trust their spouse being alone with another person of the opposite sex as long as that other person had the same last name. One use to be able to go to a Hmong village, not know anyone and have a place to sleep and a warm meal to eat. Weddings use to meant the celebration and joining of two families.

Women are seen as objects to be used rather than savior of men. The Hmongs have a saying that a woman can make or break a man. We can see the misuse/appreciation of women happening around us in the Hmong community everyday. Hmongs look the other way when another Hmong is in need. Weddings are now a place to start conflict or settle conflicts.

 Don't get me wrong though, some women are succubus', and some men are valiant. There are those out there that strive to help out selflessly. But, a community's strength is measured by it's weakest links. And thus far, our weakest links is made up of a significan.If this generation is going to be the ones to inherit the future, I have no faith.

EPIC FAIL! (I assure you, you are not the only one familiar with Hmong practices, beliefs, and marriage/funeral rites -- including COV ZAJ.)

You totally MISINTERPRETED/misunderstood the words/zaj "Nqid Mis Nqid Hno".  Literally it means "Price of Milk.  Price of Food.", to literally mean the "Cost/price to raise. (a child/daughter)".  That in itself is the "Bride Price" or "Head Price" which it is fully intended, and intended to mean.  As a matter of fact, it is known (been aggressively practiced and observed) throughout Hmong history, even in the West, till Western assimilation, tolerance, and turmoil that the "Head Price" is and was truly meant as such; that is a "price" to be paid.  And historically, the more beautiful the girl, more affluent, and more successful, the more expensive she cost.  There was no standard, as in livestock and agriculture, or the free market.  Why do you suppose most/all Hmong still say, "Nqid Taub Hau", literally meaning "Head Price", as if selling a cattle, pig, or any other livestock.

But here, nowadays in the West, people (Hmong) will call it just about anything except its somewhat negative connotation, which it is not.  I have even heard OG "Mej Koob" tell ignorant Westernizers that Hmong do not practice "bride price" but it is rather IN FACT a "dowry".  That is not true, and arguably a flat out LIE.

FACT:
Bride Price = Nqid Mis Nqid Hno/Nqid Taub Hau
Dowry = Phij Cuam



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Offline duckwingduck

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Re: Those who are against "bride price"
« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2014, 10:31:11 PM »
So, out of curiosity, what if the groom has no family? Or if he isn't Hmong?

My sister is marrying a non-Hmong guy and he really wants a Hmong wedding.  I guess he wants to show appreciation for my parents.  My parents do not mind an American wedding.  So, because he doesn't know any Hmong, my sister has to find Hmong people to be on his side for the wedding.  I don't know how much my parents will make him pay but from the look of it, he's willing to pay any price.. maybe not $50k though.



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Offline duckwingduck

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Re: Those who are against "bride price"
« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2014, 10:36:15 PM »
Let me propose a good solution.

Right now this is the approach:
-Pay $100-$5,000 engagement ring.
-Pay $1000-$5,000 wedding ring.
-Spend $10,000 to $40,000 on wedding
-Pay $5,000 or more for the bride price.

So some are asking to fro the bride price of $5,000.

I suggest drop the first two.  Donate the bride price to a charity of your choice.  The reason for keeping the bride price?  Just to make sure the guy is not a loser.



« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 11:23:02 AM by duckwingduck »

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Offline chidorix0x

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Re: Those who are against "bride price"
« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2014, 12:40:39 AM »
Let me propose a good solution.

Right now this is the approach:
-Pay $100-$5,000 engagement ring.
-Pay $1000-$5,000 wedding ring.
-Pay $5,000 or more for the bride price.

So some are asking to fro the bride price of $5,000.

I suggest drop the first two.  Donate the bride price to a charity of your choice.  The reason for keeping the bride price?  Just to make sure the guy is not a loser.


Traditional Hmong could care less (completely disregard/disavow) your first two proposal.  They are nothing but a Western concept, and is completely irrelevant and inapplicable in/within a Hmong wedding -- traditional and/or nontraditional -- unless one wants an American-based type wedding.  And even then, those two are not entirely the norm, or is required and mandatory ...   >:D .



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Offline Believe_N_Me

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Re: Those who are against "bride price"
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2014, 04:38:15 PM »
As the 1st generation of Hmong Americans it is our duty to dispose many of the traditions that will no longer benefit us as a cultural ethnicity.

I'm pretty sure this is how the Hmong lost their history. At least our ancestors had the excuse that they were forced to lose their culture. What will your excuse be seeing that you live in this great country which not only allows you to celebrate your culture but encourages you to hold onto it?



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Offline chabee

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Re: Those who are against "bride price"
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2014, 11:57:49 AM »
EPIC FAIL! (I assure you, you are not the only one familiar with Hmong practices, beliefs, and marriage/funeral rites -- including COV ZAJ.)

You totally MISINTERPRETED/misunderstood the words/zaj "Nqid Mis Nqid Hno".  Literally it means "Price of Milk.  Price of Food.", to literally mean the "Cost/price to raise. (a child/daughter)".  That in itself is the "Bride Price" or "Head Price" which it is fully intended, and intended to mean.  As a matter of fact, it is known (been aggressively practiced and observed) throughout Hmong history, even in the West, till Western assimilation, tolerance, and turmoil that the "Head Price" is and was truly meant as such; that is a "price" to be paid.  And historically, the more beautiful the girl, more affluent, and more successful, the more expensive she cost.  There was no standard, as in livestock and agriculture, or the free market.  Why do you suppose most/all Hmong still say, "Nqid Taub Hau", literally meaning "Head Price", as if selling a cattle, pig, or any other livestock.

But here, nowadays in the West, people (Hmong) will call it just about anything except its somewhat negative connotation, which it is not.  I have even heard OG "Mej Koob" tell ignorant Westernizers that Hmong do not practice "bride price" but it is rather IN FACT a "dowry".  That is not true, and arguably a flat out LIE.

FACT:
Bride Price = Nqid Mis Nqid Hno/Nqid Taub Hau
Dowry = Phij Cuam


I agree with you!!!!! We need to just get rid of this head price, period!!!!
My daughters are not having this head price to think about.



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Offline chabee

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Re: Those who are against "bride price"
« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2014, 11:59:32 AM »
I'm pretty sure this is how the Hmong lost their history. At least our ancestors had the excuse that they were forced to lose their culture. What will your excuse be seeing that you live in this great country which not only allows you to celebrate your culture but encourages you to hold onto it?

Hmnongs are very very very bad with their words and understanding of its true meaning. For Hmong, there's a thin line between Culture, Custom, and Religion. Some... just have no idea what each one is...




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Offline dogmai

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Re: Those who are against "bride price"
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2014, 04:20:47 PM »
Hmnongs are very very very bad with their words and understanding of its true meaning. For Hmong, there's a thin line between Culture, Custom, and Religion. Some... just have no idea what each one is...

True. One example is drinking.



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Offline Stybic_Kemaka

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Re: Those who are against "bride price"
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2015, 11:25:27 PM »
Mex/black/white free no money y always cry bout a nickel here or there ... Put in baby terms for u guy .. Take as future payment for baby sitting fees lol



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Offline chidorix0x

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Re: Those who are against "bride price"
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2015, 01:17:30 PM »
Hmnongs are very very very bad with their words and understanding of its true meaning. For Hmong, there's a thin line between Culture, Custom, and Religion. Some... just have no idea what each one is...

... kekeke  ...   ::)  ...  KEKEKE  ...   :2funny:

If u mean the ignorant and clueless HA'MUNG then perhaps u have a point and/or 1/2 assh argument.

But with the Hmong/Mong, especially all the XibFwbs of Hmong culture,  custom,  and religion then it is clearly u who has no idea, understanding, and true meaning ... kekeke  ...   >:D



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