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Author Topic: Hmong hunter feared Game Warden; said he would've been killed  (Read 33254 times)

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PebHmoobUnited

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Re: Hmong hunter feared racist Game Warden; said he would've been killed
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2013, 11:46:27 AM »
finest,

well said and well balanced post.  I'm wholeheartedly agree with you.  I'm a voice of reason and all for the respect of all hunters...but at the same time, I will NOT back down and tug my tail behind my legs and be a victim or stereotypes for anyone. 

My philosophy of hunting is this.....I do not intend to walk into the woods with a mentality that I'm ASIAN, I have more rights than white/black/mex hunters.  The problem here is that it's totally the opposite with SOME white hunters.  You see, these "SOME" white hunters think like this (speaking from past encounters), though they know legally the laws, but subconsciously, they have this mentality that the woods belongs to them.  So if they see you in the woods....guess what?

They normally don't approach you with a civilized attitude....bu t they will approach you with stereotypes like..."you asian kill everything.... you don't respect other hunters...you asian...blah blah...blah...".

If i were to drop down to thier LEVEL of stupidity and list all the BAD things the white people done to this country's resources, they'll all be shamed!!  You see....this is where the problem arise.  These people are not looking to "SHARE" the woods like we all have been preaching.  Do you see why as much as we try to work iron things out....it will NEVER going to get through these neanderthals' brains.  It's who they are...they're an aggressive specie since time immemorial.

Of course, i've met some of the most KIND and respectful white hunters out there anyone could ask for. They are the FAMILY men and men of integrity....m en that understand the CONCEPT OF sharing the resources we all paid to enjoy. Men that think with their brain before they speak....men i could invite to dinner at my house and meet my family.  These type of men are a rarity.



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PebHmoobUnited

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Re: Hmong hunter feared racist Game Warden; said he would've been killed
« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2013, 11:54:05 AM »
R, you never know.  They could be poachers or friends of the landowner?

They say that knowledge is power.  If you know the hunting laws and regulations, DNR officers, park rangers and regular hunters will be more afraid of you.  Some officers and rangers are nice, but their job is to enforce the hunting regulations.  Some will try to shake you down to see if you break under pressure or confess to a violation.  If you stand your ground and respond to them in a respectful manner and knowledgeable about the regulation, they will leave you alone.  Reporter's story above is a prime example on how to respond to authority figure when being approached during a hunt. 

A lot of the time, Hmong hunters feel that they are powerless in the forest.  They are afraid of authority figure and think that they are targeting them.  As long as you are on public (taxpayer) land and are abiding by hunting regulations, you have nothing to fear.

I was thinking that we need to educate our Hmong hunters of our rights.  Also, we need to educate them on how to respond to authority figures when being confronted by them.

REN...MOST profound thoughts on your post! I believe that by educating our people some potential questions the warden will ask and provide the correct responses would make the encounter less intimidating.  If you have not committed anything illegal act....you have NOTHING to worry about. 




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Offline Reporter

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Re: Hmong hunter feared racist Game Warden; said he would've been killed
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2013, 12:23:28 PM »
R, you never know.  They could be poachers or friends of the landowner?

They say that knowledge is power.  If you know the hunting laws and regulations, DNR officers, park rangers and regular hunters will be more afraid of you.  Some officers and rangers are nice, but their job is to enforce the hunting regulations.  Some will try to shake you down to see if you break under pressure or confess to a violation.  If you stand your ground and respond to them in a respectful manner and knowledgeable about the regulation, they will leave you alone.  Reporter's story above is a prime example on how to respond to authority figure when being approached during a hunt. 

A lot of the time, Hmong hunters feel that they are powerless in the forest.  They are afraid of authority figure and think that they are targeting them.  As long as you are on public (taxpayer) land and are abiding by hunting regulations, you have nothing to fear.

I was thinking that we need to educate our Hmong hunters of our rights.  Also, we need to educate them on how to respond to authority figures when being confronted by them.

Thanks, Ren! O0 O0 O0



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Offline joot

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Re: Hmong hunter feared racist Game Warden; said he would've been killed
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2013, 12:30:57 PM »
It all depends on what kind of white hunter you've encountered.  If they come at you with a mean, threatening attitude, you can't be a humble, meek, sorrowful fellow.  You got to stand your ground and let them know you can't be messed with.  Never, ever turn your back to them or take your eyes off them.  Now, if the white hunter approach you in a "friendly" way, of course respond in kind.  Seems most of you have never encountered a threatening white hunter before, therefore your experience will be different.   



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PebHmoobUnited

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Re: Hmong hunter feared racist Game Warden; said he would've been killed
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2013, 12:41:42 PM »
Incidences like this happen because there are a few Hmong poachers that give all of us Hmong hunters a bad name.  Last year a few buddies and I went to bow hunt at White Water.  Right before dark, a couple of us came down from our trees and started to walk back to the car.  As we were getting close to the parking area it got dark and we noticed a car driving into the parking area and just parked there.  As we got to the parking, we saw that it was a Toyota truck.  It just parked there with no one getting out of the truck.  As we were waiting for our other hunting buddies, we wondered why someone would just drive into the parking and just park there.  As we waited for a good 30 minutes for our other hunting buddies, 2 Hmong guys got out of the car.  They asked whether we shot anything, and we told them no.  We asked them, what they were doing here.  Their response was, "peb tuaj saib chaw tua moslwj."  They then just walked into the woods.  WTH!?

Who in their right mind would go seek out places to hunt deer in the dark?  These guys were definitely poachers.  They either 1) poached a deer and are going back to retrieve it; or 2) already have their stands and weapons in the woods and are going to poach.  There are trophy bucks at White Water but they usually come out at night.

Poaching is wrong...it don't matter who white/black/asian/mex !! IT'S WRONG and should be prosecuted by the law.    However, the problem is not about poaching...the problem is some white hunters think they have MORE rights than REN, REPORTER, JOOT, PHU, FINEST, etc...to walk the woods. And this is where the root problem is.  When they have this mindset in their brain...it's really hard to come to an understanding and sharing of the woods like civilized human! 

Have anyone ever KNOW of a case where a hmong hunter goes into the woods and try to HARASS a white hunter out of his hunting spot? Name me one case? Can we say the same about white hunters harassing hmong hunters?

When will we stand our ground? When do we say enough is enough? When do we FIGHT (legally) back?  The people who work at the DNR or the politicians we elected are people who work for all of us.  They may not like us, but they MUST respect their position of authority and treat all hunters/people the same. 

A warden like JOEL should NEVER EVER taunt or call anyone race like he did Peng's.  This is NOT what he was sworn and paid to do.  I want to see this SOB FIRED. He doesn't serve the interest of the hunters and don't deserve to uphold the laws.  SICK!

 

ua tsaug.



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Offline lilly

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Re: Hmong hunter feared racist Game Warden; said he would've been killed
« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2013, 12:52:51 PM »
Can we all refrain from using "Chai Vang" in reference to any retaliation?  That incident is a dark time for every hunter, white, hmong, black, etc.  And it's set every hunter (no matter the color) back 50 yrs of progress.  It paints a horrible image to non-hunters and anti-hunters everywhere.  (which outnumber us 10:1)  If we want to ever gain any kind of respect from the public, then let's work towards a common goal to promote peace and harmony in the woods.  There are hundreds of thousands of acres of public hunting ground in this state and the next.  We all need to be able to share in the beauty that is our outdoors, not fight over a small area. 

To the non hunters and anti-hunters, the only negative color they see is camo.  And don't think for a second that they're not waiting for any reason to pull back funding for public land access or hundreds of other programs out there for us hunters in these states.  All of that is paid for by tax dollars, and unfortunately we only represent a small percentage of tax payers in our states.  If we can't even manage ourselves in the woods, imagine the 10 other people are waiting to vote against public funding for our hunting access and programs?  Don't give them a reason to take away our traditions and heritage.  We have it too good here, but all it takes is one bad apple to spoil the entire thing.

I get it, we're all angry and may have had our own run-ins with people with the wrong mentality.  But be the bigger person and just move on.  Threats of violence in retaliation is going to do nothing but increase the negativity in people's minds, theirs and ours.  Fear of the unknown is a dangerous thing, and I've always said that white hunters are more afraid of us than we are of them because they know nothing about us our or behaviors (aside from what they see in the news, i.e. Chai Vang).  So are you going to reinforce their prejudice against you?  Or will you take a new step that will totally blind side them, like actually talking to them as one hunter to another, as an actual person who appreciates the outdoors just like they do?  And promote conservation and education among our next generation of hunters?  You'll be amazed at how friendly people become when you approach them in a friendly way and change their point of view of Hmong hunters.  Some will even invite you to hunt with them on their own private lands! 

But if we don't something now, then our children will carry our faults and shortcomings into the woods on their future hunts.  They will face the same prejudices we did not properly address or solve.  And worst of all, they will carry the same mentality we have against white hunters.  It needs to start with everyone in here, right now.  Stop the hate, stop the mentality of violence in retalitation, stop the ignorance.  Then we can start approaching it with an open mind, to educate and inform people.  And eventually we'll gain acceptance.  It may seem like an impossible thing right now, but I've witnessed lots of progress already with what little HASC has been able to accomplish thus far.  And we're only just beginning to breakthrough with awareness and conservation.  Together I think know that we can all make it happen.  But it starts within each and every person in here. 

I wish everyone the best for the rest of the season and hope that no one has any other negative run-ins with folks.  We've heard way too many negative stories already this year, when will we hear good news about Hmong hunters?  I still pray for that day every day.   8)

+1.  Finest probably didn't intend for this... but I vote Finest for President.   ;D  But seriously, I really like your approach, Finest.  A meeting of the minds, the road to beginning to understand and respect each other cannot be achieved through retaliation and/or more aggression.  A lot of us need to change our ways, find better approaches to deal with difficult situations.  With some White/non-Hmong folks though, there is no convincing them because their minds are set on their ways... their hate is so thick toward us.  But if we can change his neighbors' mind about us, his neighbor would probably have more influence and be able to convince him that not all Hmong people are bad.  And our own reflection of peace and calm, our offering of friendship and respect will help to soften up the hearts of haters and racists.  With that said, I agree that Hmong hunters need to be educated on how to correctly defuse and de-escalate difficult run-ins with wardens and non-Hmong hunters.  Knowing the laws and your rights are important.  Staying calm, polite, and respectful are other ways of staying safe with aggressive persons, and so on... 



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Offline lilly

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Re: Hmong hunter feared racist Game Warden; said he would've been killed
« Reply #36 on: November 19, 2013, 12:53:29 PM »
R, you never know.  They could be poachers or friends of the landowner?

They say that knowledge is power.  If you know the hunting laws and regulations, DNR officers, park rangers and regular hunters will be more afraid of you.  Some officers and rangers are nice, but their job is to enforce the hunting regulations.  Some will try to shake you down to see if you break under pressure or confess to a violation.  If you stand your ground and respond to them in a respectful manner and knowledgeable about the regulation, they will leave you alone.  Reporter's story above is a prime example on how to respond to authority figure when being approached during a hunt. 

A lot of the time, Hmong hunters feel that they are powerless in the forest.  They are afraid of authority figure and think that they are targeting them.  As long as you are on public (taxpayer) land and are abiding by hunting regulations, you have nothing to fear.

I was thinking that we need to educate our Hmong hunters of our rights.  Also, we need to educate them on how to respond to authority figures when being confronted by them.

+1



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PebHmoobUnited

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Re: Hmong hunter feared racist Game Warden; said he would've been killed
« Reply #37 on: November 19, 2013, 12:53:48 PM »
It all depends on what kind of white hunter you've encountered.  If they come at you with a mean, threatening attitude, you can't be a humble, meek, sorrowful fellow.  You got to stand your ground and let them know you can't be messed with.  Never, ever turn your back to them or take your eyes off them.  Now, if the white hunter approach you in a "friendly" way, of course respond in kind.  Seems most of you have never encountered a threatening white hunter before, therefore your experience will be different.   

I've encountered BOTH type of white hunters.  The one that approaches you with a friendly attitude is rare but they do exist. These are men that see the world 360 degree.  Then there are those whose never seen what the world look beyond their little backwater village/town/door steps...these people will think you're invading their little "turf".  In other word....xenoph obia comes to mind!

They're the ones that still stuck in the 1800's thinking they are the only men that walk the earth with two leg.  They don't know the history of this country nor know their own ancestor's history or where they crawled from. HECK, they don't even know what race they came from anymore....hen ce "whites" let alone know  that Asian also love to hunt too and we also PAY TAXES to keep America abundant.


 



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Offline lilly

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Re: Hmong hunter feared racist Game Warden; said he would've been killed
« Reply #38 on: November 19, 2013, 12:57:54 PM »
First rules when being approached by a DNR Warden? 

- Point your firearm in a safe direction
- Do NOT unload right away, as that makes you look suspicious
- Then obey and do as he says when he feels the situation is under control and safe.  If he then instructs you to unload your firearm, then do as he says.  But normally they only request this if they feel the encounter is safer with an unloaded firearm by the hunter (like if they witnessed him being trigger happy or he seems agitated or something). 

Wardens are trained to respond to almost every situation, but for the most part they just want to make it safe for everyone including themselves.  You do not have to put your firearm away, and you have a right to ask for his identification and he is required to show it to you upon request (if he didn't already show it you first when approaching you).  You also have a right to confirm his identity by calling the DNR call center before agreeing to do anything with him.  If he's genuine, he'll even give you his phone to call and confirm.  There are rare reports of people pretending to be wardens, so they take that very seriously as well. 

And this is coming straight from the numerous wardens we've worked with over the years.  They want YOU to feel safe just as THEY want to feel safe around you too.  They understand that everyone's got a firearm out there, so if the encounter is safe then it's all the better.  Every situation is handled according to the situation, so if you are causing a huge scene and making in unsafe for everyone around you, then they're going to treat you accordingly.  But if you just made a simple mistake, they'll most likely warn you first and instruct you on the proper procedures and laws.  Your treatment depends on how well you behave around them.  Don't give them a reason to detain you or suspect anything else.  Most of the time, the only reason they're out there is because someone called and complained so they have to go out and investigate.  If you know you didn't do anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about.  But if you're guilty of poaching or shooting after hours or something, then don't get upset when they come out looking for you and drag you back to their truck. 



+1

My only concern is... you have to unload your firearm when they ask you to?  I would only unload after calling to confirm the warden's identity and verifying their identification .



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PebHmoobUnited

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Re: Hmong hunter feared racist Game Warden; said he would've been killed
« Reply #39 on: November 19, 2013, 12:59:05 PM »
+1.  Finest probably didn't intend for this... but I vote Finest for President.   ;D  But seriously, I really like your approach, Finest.  A meeting of the minds, the road to beginning to understand and respect each other cannot be achieved through retaliation and/or more aggression.  A lot of us need to change our ways, find better approaches to deal with difficult situations.  With some White/non-Hmong folks though, there is no convincing them because their minds are set on their ways... their hate is so thick toward us.  But if we can change his neighbors' mind about us, his neighbor would probably have more influence and be able to convince him that not all Hmong people are bad.  And our own reflection of peace and calm, our offering of friendship and respect will help to soften up the hearts of haters and racists.  With that said, I agree that Hmong hunters need to be educated on how to correctly defuse and de-escalate difficult run-ins with wardens and non-Hmong hunters.  Knowing the laws and your rights are important.  Staying calm, polite, and respectful are other ways of staying safe with aggressive persons, and so on... 

The majority of the time, it will work for people who have at least a 3rd grade education. However, regardless of how diplomatic/well intended/well mannered/well spoken we are...there will always be "neanderthals" amongst us!  These neanderthals don't like YOU they will not like YOU...so if and when you meet a neanderthal in the woods....just be prepared in case he likes to TEST the water!




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Offline lilly

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Re: Hmong hunter feared racist Game Warden; said he would've been killed
« Reply #40 on: November 19, 2013, 01:04:43 PM »
It all depends on what kind of white hunter you've encountered.  If they come at you with a mean, threatening attitude, you can't be a humble, meek, sorrowful fellow.  You got to stand your ground and let them know you can't be messed with.  Never, ever turn your back to them or take your eyes off them.  Now, if the white hunter approach you in a "friendly" way, of course respond in kind.  Seems most of you have never encountered a threatening white hunter before, therefore your experience will be different.   

I agree with this too.  You should be able to assess every situation you encounter.  Don't assume that you meet one nice guy, the next guy is going to be nice too.  Know your surroundings, be aware at all times, know your gut instincts, and trust your feelings about other people.  If they come at you with a mean look... you need to let them know you mean business too... but first try to remain calm and descalate their anger before going head-on with them if they haven't yet given you reason to use your muscles or rifle...


« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 02:02:38 PM by lilly »

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PebHmoobUnited

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Re: Hmong hunter feared racist Game Warden; said he would've been killed
« Reply #41 on: November 19, 2013, 01:16:21 PM »
Plastering all over facebook now!  Speak up or forever hold you peace if you have ever had a run with this officer.  Heck I urge to write a letter of concern anyhow even if you never had a run in with this officer.



link to facebook discussion? ua tsaug



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Finest

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Re: Hmong hunter feared racist Game Warden; said he would've been killed
« Reply #42 on: November 19, 2013, 04:09:08 PM »
+1

My only concern is... you have to unload your firearm when they ask you to?  I would only unload after calling to confirm the warden's identity and verifying their identification .

If it comes to a point where the warden asks you to unload, then it's probably pretty serious and he's only looking to keep the situation safe for everyone.  For the most part they won't make you unload if you keep your firearm pointed away from them.  You still have the right to confirm their identity at any time, so if you feel you need to do it first before unloading then communicate that with him. 




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Offline lilly

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Re: Hmong hunter feared racist Game Warden; said he would've been killed
« Reply #43 on: November 19, 2013, 04:12:44 PM »
If it comes to a point where the warden asks you to unload, then it's probably pretty serious and he's only looking to keep the situation safe for everyone.  For the most part they won't make you unload if you keep your firearm pointed away from them.  You still have the right to confirm their identity at any time, so if you feel you need to do it first before unloading then communicate that with him. 



 O0



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Offline dianahmuas

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Re: Hmong hunter feared racist Game Warden; said he would've been killed
« Reply #44 on: November 19, 2013, 05:04:14 PM »
link to facebook discussion? ua tsaug

i second on this...need link...



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