Advertisement

Author Topic: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong  (Read 22454 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

TruthAboveKnowledge

  • Guest
Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2014, 05:11:51 PM »
You can say that Hmong are close related to Islamic people through one traditional musical instrument, which is the Jaw Harp.

Now you are thinking!  The most savage people out there are the asians.  Historically speaking, Hmong people have not even been into the stone age yet, less the iron and metal age.  They don't even know how to use straw to make bricks or use lime as a mortar ingredient. 



Like this post: 0

Adverstisement

Offline duckwingduck

  • Jr. Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 4190
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +172
    • View Profile
Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2014, 09:18:03 AM »
AfterLife, since you want to be a jew so much, let me declare you a jew.  Now happy?



Like this post: 0

Wi_sweetguy

  • Guest
Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2014, 12:18:18 PM »
AfterLife, since you want to be a jew so much, let me declare you a jew.  Now happy?

LOL.... After much debate and listening to his presentation, I concluded that he's happy where he's going and I'm rooting for his success. AL, do what makes you happy.  O0



Like this post: 0

Offline duckwingduck

  • Jr. Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 4190
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +172
    • View Profile
Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2014, 12:22:58 PM »
LOL.... After much debate and listening to his presentation, I concluded that he's happy where he's going and I'm rooting for his success. AL, do what makes you happy.  O0

He's working  hard to confirm that he is a jew.  So, I'm just helping him by confirming that he is a jew. 



Like this post: 0

thenewbguy

  • Guest
Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2014, 10:44:33 AM »
Agree. I'd say we are close to persians and babylonians. However, we are related to the Jews from an Abraham decedent since Ishmael's tribes are still out there.

Considering the Bible is a book with little historical corroboration, especially the Old Testament, how can you state that as a fact? Where is your evidence that Abraham was even a real person that we have become his descendants? Is this just some wishful thinking B.S. you learned in church?



Like this post: 0

k3v|n

  • Guest
Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2014, 10:58:02 AM »
My head hurts from reading all of this and it only prove we can't get alone at all.

"Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths." (Proverbs 3:5-6)



Like this post: 0

todspengo

  • Guest
Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2014, 05:56:49 PM »
Here we go again. Seems like every six months or so someone post a something trying to link Hmong people to the bible to further establish their faith. Now that all the speculation is done, I'll present some current information from people with PhD's in various fields of studies who, for some reason or another, seems fascinated with Hmong people.

First, a little Wikipedia about the jew harp. (disclaimer: Wikipedia is not a reliable source for academic research, but this is not an academic paper)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew%27s_harp

This instrument is considered to be one of the oldest musical instruments in the world;[1] a musician apparently playing it can be seen in a Chinese drawing from the 4th century BC. [2] Despite its common English name, and the sometimes used Jew's trump, it has no particular connection with Jews or Judaism. This instrument is native to Asia and used in all tribes of Turkic peoples in Asia, among whom it is variously referred to as a temir komuz (literally, iron komuz), agiz komuzu (literally, mouth komuz), gubuz or doromb.

Now a little bit about tracing DNA.
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0024282

Summery of this article: Modern East Asians have DNA marker is 03. Three main group share this marker. Hmong (03a3b), Han, and Tibetan (03a3c). This suggest they share a common origin. (Sorry, bubble burst. Hmong are not Southeast Asians or Northeast Asians (Koreans))

Inverview with Ayouduo from youtube account niam txiv . He has some interesting videos. Look him up.


"Archeologists and historians have suggested that the proto-H-M might be linked with the Neolithic culture in the Middle Reach of the Yangtze River in southern China (Fei 1999), including the Daxi Culture (5,300–6,400 YBP) and the Qujialing Culture (4,600–5,000 YBP). Haplogroup B5a, which is very homogeneous and shows a star-like phylogeny, accounts for 11% of H-M mtDNAs and exists in most of the H-M populations. The estimated age of B5a in H-M is 6,000 ± 2, 000 YBP. Another lineage, the motif 16129–16189–16217–16261, is strongly H-M–specific and is present in 8 of the 17 H-M populations. The estimated age of this lineage is 3,560 ± 2, 050 YBP. Furthermore, 23 D4 mtDNAs from 10 H-M populations share the same motif ,19092–16223–16362, which is very rare in other populations. Coalescence time of the D4 mtDNAs with this motif is estimated at 4,000 ± 2, 000 YBP. All these estimations are well in line with the age of the two aforementioned cultures excavated in southern China. The study of ancient DNA from the Daxi Culture and Qujialing Culture would be of great importance to verify the possible affiliations of H-M and these Neolithic cultures" (Bo Wen et al, 2004)

"A high frequency of O3d was only found in Daxi Culture. O3d is very rare in modern populations; Hmong-Mien populations have been found to contain a small proportion of O3d (Feng 2007). Among those Hmong-Mien populations, She and Bunu were found to have the highest frequency of O3d (Su et al. 1999). Since O3d occurs at low frequency in the Hmong-Mien, the ancient people of Daxi Culture might be the ancestors of the modern populations of Hmong-Mien. The absence of O3d in the historical examples from the Daxi site (it might not have been found because of the small sample size), and the migration of modern Hmong-Mien populations to the southwest might
indicate that the prehistoric population in the Three Gorges area has been replaced." (Hui Li et al, 2007)

A little history of the Hmong time in Laos. Older article but very accurate.
http://www.akha.org/content/drugwar/mccoy/23.htm

Creation to the Flood
Creation: 4000 B.C. (we don't know how long Adam and Eve lived in the Garden before their exile.)
Adam: 4000 B.C. – 3070 B.C. (Genesis 2:7; 5:5)
Methuselah: 3350 B.C. – 2350 B.C. (Genesis 5:21; 5:27)
Noah: 2950 B.C. – 2000 B.C. (Genesis 5:29; 9:29)
Flood: 2350 B.C. (Genesis 6-9)

Read more: http://www.compellingtruth.org/Old-Testament-timeline.html#ixzz2zeqy4MZq

Daxi Culture (5,300–6,400 YBP)

Daxi predates the old testament by approximately 2400 years. This means that something had already created the Hmong 2400 before God created Adam and Eve, therefore, Hmong can't be Jews.



Like this post: +3

Offline dlabtsi_os

  • Jr. Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 1150
  • Gender: Male
  • AMAZZZZZZON!
  • Respect: +42
    • View Profile
Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2014, 05:16:31 AM »
How is theory any better than hypothesis? Aren't they both just guesses still?

Hypothesis is the questioning of an assumption of a cause and effect phenomenon. Theory is a tested hypothesis.


« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 05:34:56 AM by dlabtsi_os »

Like this post: 0

Test your might!

Offline Gracified23

  • Sr. Poster
  • ****
  • Posts: 7025
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +59
    • View Profile
Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2014, 06:30:17 PM »


Daxi Culture (5,300–6,400 YBP)

Daxi predates the old testament by approximately 2400 years. This means that something had already created the Hmong 2400 before God created Adam and Eve, therefore, Hmong can't be Jews.

You were there all 6,400 of those years?



Like this post: 0

Offline dlabtsi_os

  • Jr. Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 1150
  • Gender: Male
  • AMAZZZZZZON!
  • Respect: +42
    • View Profile
Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2014, 06:31:17 AM »
Hmm, that's something new--except for the Han Chinese since we are related to the Han Chinese. However, my question is this: Was Chiyou's ethnicity Hmong, Korean, or both?

My money is more on Dong Yi or Man Yi, and other Miao. Although Hmong may have connection with Miao; Chi You may or may not be Hmong ancestry. I use to think Hmong is part of a group belonging to San Miao. But now not so sure. One reason is that some document stated Miao has been around Southern China for about 2000 years. Compare to another source stated Hmong in China; most tend to say Hmong reach Nanjing/Nanking somewhere between Sui/Yuan/Ming. So I still need confirmation from both side.

As for todspengo mtdna is also somewhat flaw. From my basic understanding because mtdna refer the mitochondria from mother to child. Anything can happened to the mother. Intermarriage, adoption, assimilation and etc. Worst case scenario, rape. As for migration pattern some stay some leave. I think look at both y paternal chromosome sample and mtdna to draw a clearer picture would be suffice.

And to end it with it niamtxiv do have interesting view. However I also recommend watching Hmonguniverse video as well. Both videos uploader show two different opinion. And I thinking competing theory benefits all of us. Just an advice ignore some of the comments in niamtxiv and HmongUniverse they're spammed.



Like this post: 0

Test your might!

chidorix0x

  • Guest
Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2014, 12:12:01 PM »
My money is more on Dong Yi or Man Yi, and other Miao. Although Hmong may have connection with Miao; Chi You may or may not be Hmong ancestry. I use to think Hmong is part of a group belonging to San Miao. But now not so sure. One reason is that some document stated Miao has been around Southern China for about 2000 years. Compare to another source stated Hmong in China; most tend to say Hmong reach Nanjing/Nanking somewhere between Sui/Yuan/Ming. So I still need confirmation from both side.

As for todspengo mtdna is also somewhat flaw. From my basic understanding because mtdna refer the mitochondria from mother to child. Anything can happened to the mother. Intermarriage, adoption, assimilation and etc. Worst case scenario, rape. As for migration pattern some stay some leave. I think look at both y paternal chromosome sample and mtdna to draw a clearer picture would be suffice.

And to end it with it niamtxiv do have interesting view. However I also recommend watching Hmonguniverse video as well. Both videos uploader show two different opinion. And I thinking competing theory benefits all of us. Just an advice ignore some of the comments in niamtxiv and HmongUniverse they're spammed.


LMAO! Yeah, definitely question anything/everything this "nut job" has to say about Hmong and Miao.

Based off of my personal research, continued research, and personally opinion (belief), Hmong/Mong are not Middle Eastern (or Jews, or remotely linked whatsoever) despite having some biblical similiarity; namely the "world flood folklore", "jaw harp", and "babel tower folklore" among a few other.  (It can be said that nearly every other ethnicity has some traits, customs, and practices that can found within the Bible also, but yet are clearly not related whatsoever.  No examples needed.)  Hmong/Mong is arguably known (found) to be exclusively have originated in China, and to an extent traceable to Siberia.  (I saw a documentary years ago, with actual footage, of a race of people who lived in Siberia pre-19th century who could easily be Hmong, or at least Asian in ethnicity.  They definitely were not Russian, or European.  They practiced shamanism, did embroidery, and "YES" played the jaw harp -- nearly identical to Hmong's.  I forget exactly what these people were called.  "NO", they were not called Hmong, or Miao.)

Lastly, I/"no one" can say definitively that Hmong/Mong is Miao, or are descendants of "Chi You".  Again, I personally believe Hmong/Mong is LESS and LESS Miao (San Miao), or a descendant of "Chi You" than most Western Hmong/Mong -- especially "niamtxiv" -- wishes or wants to believe (preach).  FACT:  "Miao" is not an ethnicity, like Hmong/Mong, Lao, Thai, Viet, French, British, or even American per say.  "Miao" is simply an ALL EXCLUSIVE term (grouping/label) used in China to mean "SPECIFICALLY NON-Han/Chinese".  "Miao" compromise of over 55+ ethnic minority groups in China which Hmong/Mong happens to be one of.  To say or claim "Miao=Hmong/Mong" and "Hmong/Mong=Miao" is utter ignorance, and idiotic. (That's what "niamtxiv" will profusely and ignorantly claim and preach.)



Like this post: 0

chidorix0x

  • Guest
Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2014, 12:29:24 PM »
Hmm, that's something new--except for the Han Chinese since we are related to the Han Chinese. However, my question is this: Was Chiyou's ethnicity Hmong, Korean, or both?

Neither!  Nor is Chiyou Japanese, despite the Japanese making a similar (exact) lineage proclamation.  (Nowadays, even the "known", and existing/remaining descendants of Chiyou -- still living in China, in the exact same location, and birthplace of Chiyou -- do not even know who or what they are ethnically; Hmong, Korean, Japanese, Chinese, or Miao.  This is documented, and already researched by Miao/Chinese scholars/historians.)  All they know is that they are (arguably) Chiyou's descendants, as told to them by their elders and all of their folklore (oral history).

Western Hmong, especially the likes of "niamtxiv", is only "bandwagoning" on the premise that since it is accepted that Chiyou is "NOT" Chinese (Han/Manchu), and that there once existed a "San Miao" kingdom; again being "NON-Chinese" that it must mean (infer) this is Hmong and a Hmong kingdom.  That is NOT SO, nor TRUE whatsoever.  There is NO scientific, archeological, or irrefutable historic data, records, or accounts; especially on Hmong's behalf to even remotely suggest this theory, or claim.  More than not, it is pure hypothesis and "wishful thinking" simply because Chiyou and "San Miao" is without a doubt "NOT" Chinese.  (The "QIN" kingdom, if memory is correct, is also known without a doubt to be "NOT" Chinese per all matters of scholarship, yet you do not hear Western Hmong preaching and claiming it is Hmong.  Now, why is that?)



Like this post: 0

chidorix0x

  • Guest
Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2014, 09:16:42 PM »
Then how do you explain the Jaw Harp?

There are at least 4 very unique, arguably non-related ethnicity that I know of, likely more, who all have been researched/documented, and are entirely unrelated whether by origin, native homeland, and/or bloodline (ancestry), yet all have and play the "Jaw Harp".  They are Hmong, Tibetan, Jews, and an aboriginal Siberian people (I forget their exact name).

(Some historians/researchers have argued that these types of commonly found/shared artifacts/instruments were/are a product of trade, or immigration, and chance meeting throughout the ages when man (various ethnicity) traveled the globe in search of fertile land and preferred places of settlement, whether by choice, famine, or warfare etc..)



Like this post: 0

chidorix0x

  • Guest
Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2014, 09:36:34 PM »
Chi You is our leader since it is what the hill tribes have claim to be. I just found that Hmong are somewhat Cantonese since I have talked to a Cantonese lady, to which she claims, "Miao." Although, I don't accept the term Miao because it is RACIST since Hmong people called themselves "Hmoob Swv," rather than Miao. I heard them saying "Hmoob Swv."

...
...

Anyway, since Hmoob Swv and Cooj Was (Wah) are related somehow, Hmong people use to live in the lands of the Cantonese, close to Beijing (Bay Ching {In Hmong: Baj Tshib}). Just remember, we are Hmoob Swv, which is the PROPER WAY of saying our name...NOT MIAO TXU!

Never heard of, or not sure where you got "Hmoob Swv" from?  (To my knowledge, and from all my personal research, I have never come across that term -- whether in Hmong, Chinese, or any other language (written document/historical record(s)).)  Care to share your references/resources/books/articles?  The word "Hmoob Swv", as it appears is definitely RPA Hmong -- not any other language I am familiar with.  Plus I have never heard any Hmong, old gen or new gen, ever referring to, or calling Hmong by that term/name ever?  Again, cite your resources, as I am curious in and of/about this new terminology, and its origin, and application.

For the record, Cantonese is mostly (mainly) used to differentiate language, specifically meaning non-Mandarin, then an ethnic identity.  When a Chinese say (call) themselves "Cantonese", it typically means they speak the "Cantonese language" and not the "Mandarin language".  Plus, Cantonese are mainly (arguably exclusively) found, and are the citizens of Taiwan (and Hong Kong), not mainland China.  Some/most Taiwanese/Cantonese would argue they are not Chinese (Han/Manchu), despite having the same ancestry, or exact bloodline.  Point is, Hmong IS NOT Cantonese period, or Chinese either.  That "wishful thinking" (hypothesis) is pure nonsense/ignorance, and poor research (fact-finding).  Despite sharing some (a lot) of history, culture, surnames etc. etc. with the Chinese, DNA evidence proves Hmong and Chinese are as different as Europeans and Africans.



Like this post: 0

Offline dogmai

  • Jr. Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 2846
  • Respect: +87
    • View Profile
Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2014, 09:41:24 PM »
(Some historians/researchers have argued that these types of commonly found/shared artifacts/instruments were/are a product of trade, or immigration, and chance meeting throughout the ages when man (various ethnicity) traveled the globe in search of fertile land and preferred places of settlement, whether by choice, famine, or warfare etc..)

Without researching, these reasons were my first thoughts.



Like this post: 0

 

Advertisements