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Author Topic: What is the big deal with hmong and goats?  (Read 5682 times)

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Offline DuMa

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What is the big deal with hmong and goats?
« on: August 07, 2014, 04:33:19 PM »
I've been to plenty of hmong invites and seems to me like non of them have goat.  It is always fresh killed pigs or cows or chicken but no goat. 

Is it taboo to eat goat or have goat as a sacrificial for the hmong or what? 

My hmong friend said that goat is powerful and I'm still clueless.  I have access to goat meat and I do not want to offend them when they be trading me squirrel rodents for my goat meat. 

Please advised if you know.  thank you



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Offline chidorix0x

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Re: What is the big deal with hmong and goats?
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2014, 12:21:21 AM »
"Goat" is not a taboo among Hmong people worldwide whatsoever to my knowledge.  We, meaning Hmong, consume "goat" like any other livestock; cattle, pigs, chicken, turkey, duck, lamb, monkeys, and other wild/domestic animals, including -- yes even "dogs and cats", though that I've only heard stories about -- mainly from the elders when they were in SE Asia.

That said, "goat" is not a prime stable on the Hmong diet, like cattle, pigs, and chicken.  My guess is mainly because of its "goat aroma/smell/stench" which is not very palatable to most Hmong; unlike the other livestock which have not after taste, or smell/stench.

As for it being "powerful", that's just a belief, or Hmong superstition.  Goat, for some Hmong, is considered a delicacy.  (Not gonna elaborate on that.)

My family, uncles, and relatives (in-laws), all who are Hmong, have "goat" stew at least 2 or 3 times a year.  Yup, that does not compare to cattle, pigs, and chicken on a daily, weekly, and monthly basis, but the point is "goat" is definitely not off the Hmong menu -- or a "taboo" period.



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Offline DuMa

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Re: What is the big deal with hmong and goats?
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2014, 06:44:30 PM »
"Goat" is not a taboo among Hmong people worldwide whatsoever to my knowledge.  We, meaning Hmong, consume "goat" like any other livestock; cattle, pigs, chicken, turkey, duck, lamb, monkeys, and other wild/domestic animals, including -- yes even "dogs and cats", though that I've only heard stories about -- mainly from the elders when they were in SE Asia.

That said, "goat" is not a prime stable on the Hmong diet, like cattle, pigs, and chicken.  My guess is mainly because of its "goat aroma/smell/stench" which is not very palatable to most Hmong; unlike the other livestock which have not after taste, or smell/stench.

As for it being "powerful", that's just a belief, or Hmong superstition.  Goat, for some Hmong, is considered a delicacy.  (Not gonna elaborate on that.)

My family, uncles, and relatives (in-laws), all who are Hmong, have "goat" stew at least 2 or 3 times a year.  Yup, that does not compare to cattle, pigs, and chicken on a daily, weekly, and monthly basis, but the point is "goat" is definitely not off the Hmong menu -- or a "taboo" period.

thanks for the education

If killing an animal for a ritual is like a sacrificial then wouldn't a goat be better than a pig or a cow since it is more rare to get a goat?

Maybe perhaps when the hmong goes hunting, there is no goat in fox holes.  All you see are deer and bear and occasionally wild pigs to pheasants. 




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Offline chidorix0x

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Re: What is the big deal with hmong and goats?
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2014, 12:00:31 AM »
thanks for the education

If killing an animal for a ritual is like a sacrificial then wouldn't a goat be better than a pig or a cow since it is more rare to get a goat?

Maybe perhaps when the hmong goes hunting, there is no goat in fox holes.  All you see are deer and bear and occasionally wild pigs to pheasants.

When I said, "My family, uncles, and relatives (in-laws), all who are Hmong, have "goat" stew at least 2 or 3 times a year.", it was implied the "goat" was for a ritual/sacrificial ceremony  ...  :)  ...  though I did not specifically state that.  (Remember, you said "goats were suppose to be powerful"?)

And again, the Hmong norm is to mainly use cows, pigs, and chickens.  That does not mean a yak, goat, or duck cannot be used.  It is just that those livestock are not the norm -- or arguably as abundant, easily accessible, and as cheap per head.  (Yes, I have witnessed, butchered, and ate plenty of goat and duck at/for numerous Hmong ceremonies.)

Another way of looking at this is, that in America -- Americans do not eat "horse" meat.  While in France, the French have "horse" steak on a daily basis.  Comprendez?  The point is, "Meat is meat -- food is food."  Who, how, when, where, and why is all personal preference in accordance to one's social (ethnic) belief/norms.  You do know that nearly ALL Middle Easterns (some Africans) do not eat pigs right?  But "goat", that is their number one choice, and prime source of protein/meat.



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Offline BetterWitAge

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Re: What is the big deal with hmong and goats?
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2014, 03:26:44 AM »
I believe the story goes something like Hmong people would throw the goat's horns into the river, and it would get lodge in the dragon's throat. The dragons gets upset and would break the river banks so that the village will get flooded. Since then Hmongs rarely uses goats for sacrificial purposes.




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Offline duckwingduck

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Re: What is the big deal with hmong and goats?
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2014, 08:51:07 AM »
I believe the story goes something like Hmong people would throw the goat's horns into the river, and it would get lodge in the dragon's throat. The dragons gets upset and would break the river banks so that the village will get flooded. Since then Hmongs rarely uses goats for sacrificial purposes.

i heard of this in the past.  superstitions do sound silly.

in thailand, i saw some dog heads hanging on some gate.  they believe the dog spirits will protect the gate from evils spirits.



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Offline chidorix0x

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Re: What is the big deal with hmong and goats?
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2014, 09:17:22 PM »
I believe the story goes something like Hmong people would throw the goat's horns into the river, and it would get lodge in the dragon's throat. The dragons gets upset and would break the river banks so that the village will get flooded. Since then Hmongs rarely uses goats for sacrificial purposes.

Exactly what "Hmong ritual/ceremony/practice" be it a wedding rite, funeral rite, or casual rite requires the goat's horns to be thrown into the river?

I have NEVER heard of (seen) such a practice in any/all Hmong rites/practices.  Even among and with all of the most common sacrificial livestock; such as cow, pigs, chickens, ducks etc. etc. etc., including "goats" -- nothing is ever thrown or tossed anywhere; be it a river, pond, meadow, ravean, or whatever natural setting/location.  (Yes, a butchered livestock can be, or is cleaned at a river bank, pond, or lake -- especially in SE Asia -- being that that is the most practical/main water source; thus some blood, organs, and wastes may be deposited, thrown away, or deposited there, but as to purposely throw such things, like the horns, IS NOT a Hmong norm in any/all Hmong rites/practices.)

The ONLY known "throwing" of anything to my personal knowledge is foremost, "the food -- meat and rice etc.", that is offered to the spirits in any/all Hmong rites/practices called "lag dab".  No horns here.  And lastly, and this is only done within some specific clans, not all Hmong clans, but during a funeral on the day of taking the "casket" to be buried, the "butchered chicken" (meal for the deceased) is "thrown away" somewhere along the way with the person carrying the "chicken package" exclaiming, "Dav muab qaib aub!", then tosses the package into the woods, or to the side of the road.  Again, no horns here.  (All other clans, this "chicken package" is actually buried with the deceased, in the grave with the casket.)

More importantly, "horns" of any kind, especially from a "goat", "rhino", or endangered species, is revered among many/ALL Hmong so such things would never be THROWN AWAY.  That is where the "powerful" superstition belief stems from.



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Offline BetterWitAge

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Re: What is the big deal with hmong and goats?
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2014, 02:11:32 AM »
it's just one of those Hmong tall tales or folklore  sort of story I remember my father once mentioned to me. My father is a hardcore believer in dragons. He would tell stories when he was a kid and how intense the rain storms were during those days and how they would see the dragon's tail flapping violently from the distant. Where the entire village would stay up just to make sure their village don't get flooded or what not.



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Offline chabee

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Re: What is the big deal with hmong and goats?
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2014, 12:09:43 PM »

Another way of looking at this is, that in America -- Americans do not eat "horse" meat.  While in France, the French have "horse" steak on a daily basis.  Comprendez?  The point is, "Meat is meat -- food is food."  Who, how, when, where, and why is all personal preference in accordance to one's social (ethnic) belief/norms.  You do know that nearly ALL Middle Easterns (some Africans) do not eat pigs right?   But "goat", that is their number one choice, and prime source of protein/meat.

They don't eat PORK because they follow the Old Testament aka Quranh. Pigs is forbidden to be eaten by God for the Israelites. They rejected Jesus Christ as their savior so they stuck to that. Jesus changed all that so that's why Christians in North America (not sure about anywhere else) can eat anything that their faith will allow them to eat.




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Offline chidorix0x

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Re: What is the big deal with hmong and goats?
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2014, 03:27:23 AM »
They don't eat PORK because they follow the Old Testament aka Quranh. Pigs is forbidden to be eaten by God for the Israelites. They rejected Jesus Christ as their savior so they stuck to that. Jesus changed all that so that's why Christians in North America (not sure about anywhere else) can eat anything that their faith will allow them to eat.


It is called/spelled "Quran" (Qu'ran/Koran)  ...  hahaha.  (Nice try though  ...  hahaha.)

"Pigs is forbidden to be eaten by God for the Israelites.  They rejected Jesus ... Jesus changed all that ..."  *LMAO!*  (Fawking HILARIOUS shiEtZ yo!  FYI -- I ain't a dumbASSH like you, or what you think.  I am sure I probably know more about the Old Testament, New Testatment, and possibly more about the Koran and Torah than you do ... HAHAHA!  But thanks for the LAFF regardless.  HINT:  Without the Koran and Torah, there would be NO "Old/New Testament", especially Christianity.  DUH!  And "vegetarians" DO NOT EAT MEAT period.  Some are devoted Christians, Hindu, Muslims, Buddhist, Hmong, Thai, Chinese, Americans etc. etc.. What now yo? *LMAO*)



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Offline chabee

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Re: What is the big deal with hmong and goats?
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2014, 06:23:47 AM »
It is called/spelled "Quran" (Qu'ran/Koran)  ...  hahaha.  (Nice try though  ...  hahaha.)

"Pigs is forbidden to be eaten by God for the Israelites.  They rejected Jesus ... Jesus changed all that ..."  *LMAO!*  (Fawking HILARIOUS shiEtZ yo!  FYI -- I ain't a dumbASSH like you, or what you think.  I am sure I probably know more about the Old Testament, New Testatment, and possibly more about the Koran and Torah than you do ... HAHAHA!  But thanks for the LAFF regardless.  HINT:  Without the Koran and Torah, there would be NO "Old/New Testament", especially Christianity.  DUH!  And "vegetarians" DO NOT EAT MEAT period.  Some are devoted Christians, Hindu, Muslims, Buddhist, Hmong, Thai, Chinese, Americans etc. etc.. What now yo? *LMAO*)

I don't want to hijack this thread but I had another impression of you before this response. We're all adults, no need to call out any names or use foul language.



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Offline chidorix0x

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Re: What is the big deal with hmong and goats?
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2014, 03:44:17 PM »
I don't want to hijack this thread but I had another impression of you before this response. We're all adults, no need to call out any names or use foul language.


NOT entirely true.  Some adults (PHers) are arguably ignorant kids to the fullest, despite their receding hairline and bulging bellies.

(If you feel sympathetic towards "ignorance", then that is own you -- not me or anybody else.  That is why the USA is the best public academic system in the world.  "Use it or lose it.", and do not fault anybody else for your own ignorance/stupidity  ...   :icon_thumleft: )



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Offline slude

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Re: What is the big deal with hmong and goats?
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2014, 04:25:17 PM »
some family use a goat in place of a cow b/c they can't afford the more expensive animal for ritual, or maybe its too much of a hassle to find and butcher one. whatever the situation is, for convenience the elders refer to the goat as 'menyuam nyuj' or calf to not offend the spirits and sacrifice as a cow to them.

some believe a goat is more meaningful/powerful than a cow in sacrificial ua neeb rituals.

if you ask me, goat meat taste better than cow, thus the hmong shaman request goat instead of a cow cause he wants to try diff meat.



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Offline chidorix0x

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Re: What is the big deal with hmong and goats?
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2014, 07:50:29 PM »
some family use a goat in place of a cow b/c they can't afford the more expensive animal for ritual, or maybe its too much of a hassle to find and butcher one. whatever the situation is, for convenience the elders refer to the goat as 'menyuam nyuj' or calf to not offend the spirits and sacrifice as a cow to them.

some believe a goat is more meaningful/powerful than a cow in sacrificial ua neeb rituals.

if you ask me, goat meat taste better than cow, thus the hmong shaman request goat instead of a cow cause he wants to try diff meat.

HAHA  ...   >:D  (Thanks for the LAFFS  ...  no comment.  "menyuam nyuj", "cow in ... ua neeb", "shaman request goat ... he wants ... diff meat" -- LMAO!  ...   :crazy2:)



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Offline SummerBerry

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Re: What is the big deal with hmong and goats?
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2014, 01:27:33 PM »
One time my uncle they had to use a goat for the ritual.  No one ate it.



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