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Offline chidorix0x

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Re: very disappointed funeral
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2014, 07:02:29 PM »
Most of your post is correct.  However, you presented some false information as well.  Also, keep in mind that every Hmong family practices funeral traditions in different ways so you should not assume that the information you presented is true for all Hmongs.  In my Xiong clan, the OLDEST nyab brings the CANDLE (which represents the deceased's spirit and is used again during the "xw" and "tso plig") home from the funeral home and is forbidden to attend the burial.  The other nyabs are free to attend the burial.

The following statement that you wrote above is FALSE: "The MAIN/SOLE REASON she cannot attend the burial and is going back before everyone is to prepare TWO things for everyone upon their return.  ONE, she must get and setup a bucket or pale of water outside so that everyone returning home can wash (cleanse) their hands.  TWO, she must also start a fire outside of the house so that everyone returning home can dry their washed hands and must step over the fire before entering the home."  While that MAY be the nyab's responsibility, that is NOT her SOLE responsibility Her main responsibility, in our clan anyway, is to coj plig mus tsev.  In fact, I have seen men prepare the water and fire before for the ones returning from the burial.

I also want to add to Summerberry's comment regarding the nyab's responsibility for watching over the body of the deceased and the casket. It IS a responsibility of the nyab - though it may not be her only responsibility - to watch over to ensure that other people with bad intentions do not sneak in metal or any other foreign objects into the casket.  Hmongs believe that the body should only be buried with natural materials that will decompose into the earth.  Metals or other foreign objects will cause an imbalance in the spirit world and cause harm to the descendants.  That is why Hmongs will pull out tooth fillings, metal crowns from the body and remove metal buttons and zippers from the clothing of the body.

Talk about FALSE, or FAULTY information  ...  kekeke  ...   >:D .  Thanks for the LAFFS.  (The information I have presented is historic/traditional/nowadays Hmong/Mong NORMs, and funeral rites -- over 90% -- practiced globally; that is USA and SEAsia.)

The stuff in RED, of your post/comment, arguably your whole posts/comments, just shows how little you know (have sound knowledge) about Hmong/Mong funeral rites.  It definitely IS NOT, " Hmong family practices funeral traditions in different ways   ", but more so, "Hmong CLANS -- not families -- may (do) practice funeral rites in different ways." -- if you/anyone wants to make that argument.  Truthfully, they are just MINOR nuisances, which is likely due to the family (or clan's) ignorance, lack of knowledge, and/or just changes (adding/deleting) of certain things that are/were originally CONSISTENT in their family, clan, and/or all Hmong/Mong in general, and overall.  (I SEE these discrepancies everyday, even today -- in practice, among families/clans of the SAME famiy/clan.)  The historically and well-known differencies/nuiances are mainly between Hmong (White) and Mong (Green) funeral rites.  But even then, they are just minor differences/nuiances which I do not care to go over.

Your comment, " It IS a responsibility of the nyab (to watch over/safeguard the casket) ...", you are WRONG.  You just do not know how WRONG you are *giggles*.  Go ask any Kav Xwm, Thawj Xyom Cuab, and Txiv Coj Xai -- not your average Joe -- for FACT versus fiction (hersay, sideline observation) okay?  (Hint: I have personally TRAINED in one of these role/job for over 3+years, so you'd think I might know what I am talking about ... *smiles*)

And what I had stated, WAS NOT to compare/contrast your Xiong family to other Xiong family, or Xiong clan to other Xiong clan, or even one Hmong/Mong family/clan to another Hmong/Mong family/clan.  Whether you know it or NOT, a single clan (Xiong or whatever) may/do have SEVERAL ways of doing things -- NOT just funeral rites.  (Again, the reasons will vary in every which way: from ignorance, to lack of knowledge etc..)  That was never the topic, or points (insights, information) of my posts/comments.  That said, what I had posted/commented ON and ABOUT is overwhelming the majority of Hmong/Mong practices, and funeral rites, arguably over 90% if not more.  Cases like yours, your Xiong family, are exceptions to the rule, and arguably IS/ARE NOT the NORMs -- being consistent with traditional funeral rites/practices.

The stuff in GREEN, of your posts, as you, yourself, have claimed; only applies to your Xiong family -- likely NOT even your whole Xiong clan.  So basically, only your Xiong family practices these (newly added/changed) variant(s).  It definitely IS NOT the NORM of/within Hmong/Mong funeral rites.  Truthfully, I have NEVER heard of, nor see, a "nyab coj plig mus tsev".  It makes no sense.  How can the "plig/spirit" be taken home, when it hasn't even been buried yet.  Traditional Hmong/Mong funeral rites, to my knowledge, and from all of my firsthand experiences, IS NOT done that way period -- meaning NO ONE (tub, anyone, especially a "nyab") is tasked to take (even just verbally ASK) the "plig/spirit" to go home, especially BEFORE the burial, from the funeral home.  (What your Xiong family did, or is practicing, is likely a Western adoption -- newly added practice.) The NORM is that once and only after the burial, a "MALE" will be tasked on 3, or more days, separately, either from the burial towards the house, or vice versa, to call the "plig/spirit" to come home.  (I am not going to explain/elaborate on this.)  Additionally, only on the day -- not anytime before, at the ceremony of "XW/TSO PLIG", it is IN FACT one of the SONS (or MALE) who calls and brings the "plig/spirit" to come back for that ritual.  Definitely NOT a "nyab", (or female). Unless NO male is present *giggles*. And I have NEVER seen a "candle" (representing the "plig/spirit") used for that purpose either.  (Maybe  that, the candle, is unique to/in your Xiong family, but NOT in any/all Hmong/Mong (some Xiongs included) "XW/TSO PLIG" I have witnessed/participated in.  The norm, according to tradition/custom, is either a small rock (pebbles), or a hand full of dirt, representing the burial/grave, or "plig/spirit" of the deceased, is preferred/used -- NOT a candle. I see this ALL the time, in every "XW/TSO PLIG" nowadays, I have witnessed/participated in.)

Maybe I am ignorant of ALL family/clan-centric funeral practices/rites, but what I have post/commented of, on, and about is historic/well-known Hmong/Mong funeral rites/practices that has been practiced/observed for decades, hundreds, if not centuries.

SinX,
What is exactly your Xiong family, or specific clan?  Be very specific (hopefully you know), and I will pay closer attention (ask in detail) about this Xiong family (clan) the next time I have an opportunity to attend/observe one of their funeral ceremony.  (If you do not know precisely what Xiong family, or clan, you belong to, then PM one, or most of your leaders, especially one/those who perform/orchestrate your Xiong family's funeral rites.)



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Offline SinX

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Re: very disappointed funeral
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2014, 08:16:04 PM »
Nope!  I'm done with this conversation.  You say so yourself that each clan may practice rites a different way; yet, you laugh (giggles) and elevate yourself on your high horse as if you know everything.  Even my 90-year old grandfather who has been a mej koob, txiv Xaiv, who can hu plig, etc. doesn't claim to have the knowledge you do.  You're over generalizing. And yes, a nyab's role includes (but is NOT LIMITED to) watching over the body.  For the simple reason that you are arguing this point, I will conclude that YOU are a fraud. Lol.  Giggles.



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Offline chidorix0x

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Re: very disappointed funeral
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2014, 09:30:05 PM »
Nope!  I'm done with this conversation.  You say so yourself that each clan may practice rites a different way; yet, you laugh (giggles) and elevate yourself on your high horse as if you know everything.  Even my 90-year old grandfather who has been a mej koob, txiv Xaiv, who can hu plig, etc. doesn't claim to have the knowledge you do.  You're over generalizing. And yes, a nyab's role includes (but is NOT LIMITED to) watching over the body.  For the simple reason that you are arguing this point, I will conclude that YOU are a fraud. Lol.  Giggles.

Awww shucks!  And I was really looking forward to learning (add to my knowledgebase) of and about your specific Xiong family's practices (variants) too ... kekeke  ...   >:D 
(Talk about being fraudulent  ...  *giggles*)

Yup, I did say clan (that is a known fact, easily observable nowadays throughout the USA/SEAsia), and even gave sound reason(s)/rationale for all the little discrepancies/nuances too.  But unlike you, I never said "FAMILY" (no such thing historically, traditionally, inherently; except for reasons, I too, have stated)  ... lolz.  Hmoob/Moob txoj cai thiab lub neej (tsis hais dab qhuas los kev cai), DO NOT have per family leader(s).  Hmong/Mong, in fact, has and only have CLAN (or subclan) leader(s) -- ib tug coj los sis tus coj dab qhuas tsaws plaub ntug *smiles*.  Hopefully you (everyone) knows what this means, and encompasses.  (Hint:  He (tus coj/clan leader) is arguably the primary source of any/all of the clan's ritual/rites/affairs (public and private) -- not just funeral rites.  True, nowadays, some of these leaders are as ignorant as US-born HA'Mung kids/adults, as the basis (criteria/requirements) of being chosen and appointed for this role/job has changed dramatically/superficially.)

Throughout my life presently, and to date, I have yet to meet (or know of) a 90-year old Hmong father, grandfather, or great grandfather, especially one versed in the traditional Hmong arts you've mentioned ... *giggles*.  (Talk about being fraudulent  ...  *giggles*)

Like I said (don't take my word for it), "Go ask any endowed traditionalist Hmong Kav Xwm, Thawj Xyom Cuab, and Txiv Coj Xai about the role/responsibility inherent to a "nyab"."  I can guarantee you, it is not "watching over, safeguarding, or even loathing" around the decease's casket. Only ignorant "nyab(s)" would do this, or foolishly/blindly think it is their role/responsibility, atypical of most/all US HA'Mung "nyab(s)" you see/observe nowadays *giggles*.  (Hint:  I have already stated this in one of my earlier post/comment, but this role/responsibility is tasked/assigned, and even has to be FORMALLY requested/appointed by a Kav Xwm of/from that said person, aka "Ntxhais Vauv zov qauv (for the record, this/these is/are the SOLE/MAIN person(s) tasked/responsible for this job, of watching over/safeguarding the casket."  NOT "tub nyab(s) zov hleb"; which there is NO SUCH thing, and/or is NON-existent in a traditional Hmong funeral rite/ceremony.  "Tub nyab(s)" are in fact Tsev Xyom Cuab -- even if they are just cousins; 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or whatever.  LoLz! *smiles*)

And yes, arguably I am more knowledgeable about Hmong anything/everything than you, or any other HA'Mung PHer(s)  ...  kekeke  ...   >:D

Come on yo, give/tell me who is a family leader(s) of your Xiong family, or the specific Xiong clan you are a part of?  I want to know (learn) more about the "candle", or whatever variants your Xiong family practices/observes compared/contrast to the rest of the Hmong/Mong communities nationwide ...   :icon_thumright:



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Offline Pwko_hauvkojlubSiab

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Re: very disappointed funeral
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2015, 11:59:55 PM »
we had a traditional funeral for a great grandmother. 1 of my nyab is traditional and the 2 others are christians.
if it was not for my traditional nyab, nothing would get done. no food would be cooked and no items, ingredients, supplies would be bought.
my 2 other christian nyab just dranked their lungs out till they were drunk and never lifted a finger to cook. they sat inside and slept on benches where their tight clothed bodies were exposed to all the guest and woke up to play cards with mens.
the worst part, the 2 christian nyab brought drama to the funeral and fought other ppl. all 30 yr olds plus. shame. shame. shameful. embarassing.

what i want to say is, all you christian nyab, don't be like that. you married into a shaman family, learn and respect our ways, as we do, yours. stop the embarassment.

doing work is not a religious thing, but it is the personal traits and characteristic s - people who understand the principle of helping each others in a hardship time would do whatever they can to help one another.

only stupid people who think that because of their belief would deter and against their principle...be cause there is no such thing about after life...just make-believe to make  human being happy here on earth



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