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Offline slude

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Temple of Hmongism
« on: September 18, 2014, 04:22:30 PM »
it's not a new religion, more like a modified version of the current funeral rites and rituals. very interesting... the discussion about simplifying funeral rituals has been going on for years. finally a group has enough 'believers' to do it. more power to them.





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Offline pievang

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Re: Temple of Hmongism
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2014, 04:41:27 PM »
Do not join those families aren't themseleves and it's the work of sex magick thelema!!!!  Every Hmong secret is to be practice alone by yourself if you are like me...  They are not and soon they fall!!!  Becareful once you are possessed they will try to make you do things!!!!!   Stay away from those fellowers....   I am Va Hmong Phayeesern Vang!!!  I am the yingyang and black circle!!!



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Offline yuknowthat

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Re: Temple of Hmongism
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2014, 05:11:47 PM »
Seems valid to certai extent on some area..

, but cov laus ua laub lub ntsiab always says , "txiv taw kev tsis zov tuag" tawv kev tag ces tu txiv taws kev mus tsev lawm xwb...



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Offline chidorix0x

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Re: Temple of Hmongism
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2014, 09:04:37 PM »
Old news actually.

And this group has already been criticized by traditional and non-traditional Hmong practitioners, for various reasons, which I do not care to elaborate on.  "Ignorance is bliss." is all that should be dutifully noted.

One might even argue this is a "new cult" of the Hmong, mixing and matching beliefs and practices, to incept their own practice(s), for their own purpose(s).



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Offline anonymouse

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Re: Temple of Hmongism
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2014, 06:38:12 PM »
Watched a bit of the video. Read a few things on the website, and I saw one of the posts on their facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/HMONGISM.ORG

The religious organization just screams "bullshit" to me.

for one.

This is their mission as stated on the website Hmongism.org

Quote
The mission the Temple of Hmongism is to simplify our traditional religious practices in order to dramatically reduce time and money and to inspire future generations to proudly remain with Hmongism as their faith.

And then they also have it again in Hmong.

Quote
Lub hom phiaj ntawm Hmongism los yog Temple of Hmongism yog txhim kho Hmoob tus dab qhuas qub niaj hnub no kom zoo tshaj qub, luv tshaj qub, thiab kom poob caij nyoog thiab poob nyiaj tsawg tshaj qhov qub.

I agree with what one of the facebook posters said.

It may seem like we're cherrypicking a bit. But, watching a bit of the video, and seeing it say on their website what the mission is.
It's about money. Saving money and decreasing cost. Now I'm no expert in Religious theories, origins, and philosophies. But I've met lots of different religiously affiliated folks.  they all came from different religions; Christians, Catholics, Animists/Shamans, Taoists, Buddhists, and so on.  But I've never heard a religion say "Our mission is to decrease how much money you spend on services."

I've heard it in alot of other places though. Where, might you ask? On billboards, on business ads, on presidential campaigns, on assembly member campaigns.

Yes that's right. They don't sound like your typical religious organization, they sound like the typical money based organizations.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The post on the facebook comes off as very offensive and spews nonsense.

to save you guys the trouble I'll reiterate what they said when responding to criticism.

1. Hmongism is not a new religion. it's a simplified version of the old religion>

2. stuff about names.

3. misinformed information about other religions. Making claims as if they are experts in other religions.

4. Idiotic post asking what the difference between calling their religion Temple of Hmongism, versus other people calling their place of worship something like the Hmong Lutheran Church.

5. is hmong copyrights?

6. Huge idiotic claim that they originally thought Hmong people did not have a religion. However, Hmongism is possibly the first religion to prove that Hmong people do have a religion.

----
Someone already commented and already showed the idiocy and hypocrisy of the post. but I agree for the most part with what she said, so I'll say it here to make it easy for everyone.

1 and 6 are contradictions .

1 says Hmongism is not a new religion. 6 says they thought Hmong people did not have a religion but with Hmongism they can prove that Hmong people do have a religion. 
If Hmongism is not new and it is based off an older religion, then a religion already exist. They didn't do anything or prove anything. The religion already exist, all they did was change a few things, slap on a new label, and called it a day.




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Offline slude

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Re: Temple of Hmongism
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2014, 01:06:09 PM »
i'm not going to interpret or debate whether 'shamanism/animism' or hmonganism is a religion or not.

i agree that the 'mission statement' and name "-ism" are poor choices but they don't take away the purpose, and that is to simplify/reduce the amount of work, labor, money/ & time taken to carry out a funeral service.

from afar everyone can point fingers and criticize. to appreciate hmongaism you had to experienced the tiresome nights of staying up, butchering, long funeral rites, etc., and the total expenses paid after a funeral service.

i think it has good intention and that is to help the younger hmong generation. point is, they're making changes rather than just talking about it. it's a start...




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Offline chidorix0x

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Re: Temple of Hmongism
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2014, 05:04:13 PM »
i'm not going to interpret or debate whether 'shamanism/animism' or hmonganism is a religion or not.

i agree that the 'mission statement' and name "-ism" are poor choices but they don't take away the purpose, and that is to simplify/reduce the amount of work, labor, money/ & time taken to carry out a funeral service.

from afar everyone can point fingers and criticize. to appreciate hmongaism you had to experienced the tiresome nights of staying up, butchering, long funeral rites, etc., and the total expenses paid after a funeral service.

i think it has good intention and that is to help the younger hmong generation. point is, they're making changes rather than just talking about it. it's a start...

These "purposes", or "mission", have been discussed and been hotly debated and contested throughout the Hmong community nationwide for at least the last decade.  Nothing new. (I am not going to elaborate on the disparities and feuds of both sides, those FOR and Against change; that has stagnated any formal revision, editing, or Westernization of the traditional Hmong funeral rites.)

The folks behind "Temple of Hmongism" did not find, co-found, propose, or enact anything new whatsoever.  The only thing they did was pooled together a few ignorant followers and started preaching (lauding) themselves as if they are the next Hmong "messiah", or evolutionary Hmong belief/practice system.  Whatever.  Some, arguably most of these folks, do not even have a clue how to orchestrate the traditional Hmong funeral rites, so whatever "change" they are trying to instill is just typical Hmong-wanna-be nonsense.

As you mentioned, the name itself, "Temple of Hmongism", already profoundly self-incriminates their layman intellect. And that's not necessarily Hmong funeral rites either, but more so sound global religious practices (awareness).

A "temple" is a place of worship -- not for funeral rites.  Examp:  Shaolin/Buddhist temple, Mosque, Hindu temple. Only a church, arguably not a temple, holds funeral services.

The use of "ISM", aka Hmongism.  Stupid. It's all I care to say.



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Offline anonymouse

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Re: Temple of Hmongism
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2014, 12:23:12 PM »
These "purposes", or "mission", have been discussed and been hotly debated and contested throughout the Hmong community nationwide for at least the last decade.  Nothing new. (I am not going to elaborate on the disparities and feuds of both sides, those FOR and Against change; that has stagnated any formal revision, editing, or Westernization of the traditional Hmong funeral rites.)

The folks behind "Temple of Hmongism" did not find, co-found, propose, or enact anything new whatsoever.  The only thing they did was pooled together a few ignorant followers and started preaching (lauding) themselves as if they are the next Hmong "messiah", or evolutionary Hmong belief/practice system.  Whatever.  Some, arguably most of these folks, do not even have a clue how to orchestrate the traditional Hmong funeral rites, so whatever "change" they are trying to instill is just typical Hmong-wanna-be nonsense.

As you mentioned, the name itself, "Temple of Hmongism", already profoundly self-incriminates their layman intellect. And that's not necessarily Hmong funeral rites either, but more so sound global religious practices (awareness).

A "temple" is a place of worship -- not for funeral rites.  Examp:  Shaolin/Buddhist temple, Mosque, Hindu temple. Only a church, arguably not a temple, holds funeral services.

The use of "ISM", aka Hmongism.  Stupid. It's all I care to say.

I'm not against change. I like change. I like the idea of improving the systems we have in place.

But from the things these folks have said, they are not improvements. And they appear to lack the empathy behind the practices.

They claim they are "the Hmong religion of the future" (it says so on the website). Making themselves sound like they are revolutionary. Like chirdori said, they are preaching themselves as the next "messiah." When really they didn't do anything.

They took someone elses work. Changed a few wordings here and there. Slapped on a new label. And are now professing it as some revolutionary thing.

I only watched the first 10 minutes. Read a few posts, and as previously stated, saw their mission statement. And its the same thing, talking about money.

Yes money is a big deal to alot of families, even my own. Funerals are expensive. But when it comes time for the funeral, the focus was never about money. It was about honoring the person's life. Perhaps they see it differently, but to me, my relatives, and friends, we see the passing of someone as highly valued and meaningful. We don't turn the focus onto money.  We DON'T see it as a detrimental loss to our finances and we don't treat it as such..  To do so would be to disrespect the person, to belittle their life. It's shameful if you ask me.

So yea. maybe they don't think like me or the people I know do. Maybe they do focus on money more than the person.  And there technically isn't anything wrong to think that way. But I don't know any religion that treats the passing of someone as a detrimental loss to their finances.  It may actually be seen as disgraceful to Hmong people and to Hmong religion altogether.

======================================================================================================================================
I'm not sure if this person is the same one as the "founder" of the religion. But this is what was said from someone by the name of Yuepheng Xiong (same name as the founder) on the youtube comments (that video in the TC's post).

Someone had asked who pays for the funeral, the family or the "temple of Hmongism"
And Yuepheng's reply was.
Quote
The Temple of Hmongism pays for the priests (cov coj dab coj qhua) and provides for all funeral services. And if you have a funeral home, the members use for free of charge. But when we don't have one, everyone has to pay for funeral home. The rest, food, coffin, grave, spirit money, etc, is paid for by the deceased family.

The most important thing here is that the Temple did the research, simplify our religion, develop policies for the Temple and its members so that the rituals costs are kept at minimal. On the average, a funeral will only cost around $10,000, $15,000 on the high end. This saves our members thousands of dollars.

If this is the same guy (never know, it can be someone who's against the religion, or a troll). Then my question would be for those followers of the religion. What difference did this change? You are still paying for virtually everything. The only thing the religion helps pay for is the funeral home, the priests and whatever they consider "service". That's a joke.

It's almost like saying, Hey lets have a picnic this weekend. You guys bring the food, I'll bring the rice. or Lets have a party at my house, I'll provide the place, you guys provide everything else including food and equipment.

= Hopefully someone has a more credible source than the youtube comment.

--- edit... Someone asked on the facebook the same question. and they gave the same exact answer.


« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 02:59:10 PM by anonymouse »

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Offline chidorix0x

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Re: Temple of Hmongism
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2014, 10:55:11 PM »
I'm not against change. I like change. I like the idea of improving the systems we have in place.

But from the things these folks have said, they are not improvements. And they appear to lack the empathy behind the practices.

They claim they are "the Hmong religion of the future" (it says so on the website). Making themselves sound like they are revolutionary. Like chirdori said, they are preaching themselves as the next "messiah." When really they didn't do anything.

They took someone elses work. Changed a few wordings here and there. Slapped on a new label. And are now professing it as some revolutionary thing.

I only watched the first 10 minutes. Read a few posts, and as previously stated, saw their mission statement. And its the same thing, talking about money.

Yes money is a big deal to alot of families, even my own. Funerals are expensive. But when it comes time for the funeral, the focus was never about money. It was about honoring the person's life. Perhaps they see it differently, but to me, my relatives, and friends, we see the passing of someone as highly valued and meaningful. We don't turn the focus onto money.  We DON'T see it as a detrimental loss to our finances and we don't treat it as such..  To do so would be to disrespect the person, to belittle their life. It's shameful if you ask me.

So yea. maybe they don't think like me or the people I know do. Maybe they do focus on money more than the person.  And there technically isn't anything wrong to think that way. But I don't know any religion that treats the passing of someone as a detrimental loss to their finances.  It may actually be seen as disgraceful to Hmong people and to Hmong religion altogether.

======================================================================================================================================
I'm not sure if this person is the same one as the "founder" of the religion. But this is what was said from someone by the name of Yuepheng Xiong (same name as the founder) on the youtube comments (that video in the TC's post).

Someone had asked who pays for the funeral, the family or the "temple of Hmongism"
And Yuepheng's reply was.
If this is the same guy (never know, it can be someone who's against the religion, or a troll). Then my question would be for those followers of the religion. What difference did this change? You are still paying for virtually everything. The only thing the religion helps pay for is the funeral home, the priests and whatever they consider "service". That's a joke.

It's almost like saying, Hey lets have a picnic this weekend. You guys bring the food, I'll bring the rice. or Lets have a party at my house, I'll provide the place, you guys provide everything else including food and equipment.

= Hopefully someone has a more credible source than the youtube comment.

--- edit... Someone asked on the facebook the same question. and they gave the same exact answer.

The guy in the Youtube video is Yuepheng Xiong, who is also the founder (or one of the co-founders) of this new bogus religion.  (He's also the owner of the "Hmong ABC" bookstore too is what I have heard/been told.)

I never care to pay much attention to any/ALL of these Hmong-this Hmong-that ranters, but from your summary, it is crystal clear to me -- at least, as to EXACTLY what they are doing (or have minimized, revised, or changed with respect to the traditional funeral ceremony).  Basically, they HAVE NOT CHANGED anything except to USURP up "SERVICES", or specifically the "SERVICE MEN/woman".  That's NOTHING in the grand scheme of a Hmong funeral ceremony; traditional or NON-traditional. Long story short, they sound EXACTLY like (doing exactly the same as) how Hmong-Christians are handling/performing their funeral ceremonies nowadays.  (The Church and its members do all the work/labor, aka SERVICES, as a FREE/PRE-PAID service, for all/any active Church-member, but all other EXPENSES: food, funeral home rental, casket etc. are still the deceased family's SOLE RESPONSIBILITY .  That still means EXPENSES, EXPENSES, EXPENSES etc.)  And this DOES not SAVE $thousands$ of $dollars$ as it is being FALSELY commercialized .  (Okay, maybe $1000-$5000MAX (if that). But that's pocket change when it comes to a funeral.)  To my knowledge, per some of my Hmong-Christian's funerals, a typical Hmong-Christian funeral ceremony, which this new bogus religion has blueprinted, still costs between $30,000 - $50,000+ in general, and overall.  There is absolutely NO WAY this, or any new bogus religion, can cut their funeral ceremony down to $10,000 or $15,000; especially if they want to have some elements of Christianity, or traditional Hmong services and reception (vigil time) for all the grieving parties: families, relatives, friends, in-laws etc. etc...  For those who are clueless, or are LIARS like this new bogus religion, a "casket" alone is easily $5,000 - $10,000. And those caskets are at Hmong prices, Hmong made, and Hmong preferred ones too (presently) -- not any HIGH end or LOW end USA caskets whatsoever.  Again, that is just for the "casket" alone.

The more I see and read about this new bogus religion, the more it screams, "They are frauds, if not complete *D(0+$!"



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Offline anonymouse

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Re: Temple of Hmongism
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2014, 12:38:57 AM »
^ I have really close friends who were Hmong Christians (CMA).
Yes I say, WERE.. They no longer are and this is why:

Their family have to pay some amount of money each year to be part of the church.  I never bothered to ask how much.  They said they help out at funerals, if they have trouble, if they need help moving.
When they were moving, the church didn't do shit. They showed up for maybe 20 minutes, stand there mostly.
Some time later, their grandma passed away. The church did "help" and provide "service."
How? might you ask. well, after the family already got done with the animals and such. The church came to help prep the food.
The family wanted to sing a few songs in honor of the loved one who passed away. The church members said they have to approve of the songs first.
To top it off.. The WORST offense came  that night. When the church notified them that because they are members of the church, they are required to give 20% of the money given to them by relatives during the funeral. (sorry, I don't know the exact hmong term for it).

Had a small meeting that night. I was with my friends and their immediate family to talk about it. It was never about the money. They thought about it and decided, it's best not to deal with the church's bullshit. Instead, they are going to let their grandma go in peace. Let her go peacefully, and then say good riddance to the duckfest that is the church.

Of course. The last day (it was only 2 days for the entire thing). The church even had the balls to say, they want their people to carry the casket. not the family, but their people. The family said no.

Pay monthly to be a member of the church? pay 20%? and just to be ridiculed and disrespected like that? that's a joke.

But I agree chidori. It is bullshit. this "revisioned religion" is bullshit just like some Hmong christians are. I'm sure there are some hmong christians who are actually legit and good people. But There are many like the ones my friends family got involved with, who are just bullshit.

They are a fraud. They are bullshit. They are quite shameful. Taking a culture, taking a religion, removing key things of importance. turning it to focus on money. slapping on a new title. and professing themselves as something great.

But hey. I'm glad we're able to prove they are bullshit. :)

I'd make a much more public post to let the world know. But it'll happen when it happens. If no one knows about it, then I don't need to do the post. Doing so might bring them the attention they want.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To all my Hmong brothers and sisters.

Don't fall for this bullshit of a religion. They have admitted they won't be really helping you pay for anything. Don't let their bullshit fool you.
At the end of the day. The funeral will fall on you, your relatives and your families hands. Not theirs. They will only be there for the name.

Temple of Bullshit. :p



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Offline Believe_N_Me

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Re: Temple of Hmongism
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2014, 01:02:16 PM »
anonymouse,

If that is their mission then I call b.s, too. I mean, do people need to start a new religion to save on time and money?  :idiot2: It is downright laughable that anybody would join these people for those reasons alone.

And unfortunately, nowadays many Hmong churches have turned into organizations where it is required to pay a membership fee with the promise of certain services in return.  :idiot2: I stay away from those churches and I encourage any persons to follow suit.

Pay tithing to pay for rent, utilities, and church programs - YES. Pay so that you can get help during a funeral? Not.

 



« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 01:05:39 PM by Believe_N_Me »

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Offline anonymouse

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Re: Temple of Hmongism
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2014, 12:13:39 AM »
anonymouse,

If that is their mission then I call b.s, too. I mean, do people need to start a new religion to save on time and money?  :idiot2: It is downright laughable that anybody would join these people for those reasons alone.

And unfortunately, nowadays many Hmong churches have turned into organizations where it is required to pay a membership fee with the promise of certain services in return.  :idiot2: I stay away from those churches and I encourage any persons to follow suit.

Pay tithing to pay for rent, utilities, and church programs - YES. Pay so that you can get help during a funeral? Not.

That's what they said in a facebook reply and that's what it says on their page. so Yea I'm going by it.

Good thing it died out before it began. No one I know was gullible enough to fall for it. :)

Definitely. I can understand the giving a dollar or two as donations or offerings during mass. Even going so far as paying a small amountthat goes towards the new year celebration several churches I've come across have (they pool money to buy enough food, rent a place, etc. for the whole church).

But paying money every month like some church requires? nope.



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Offline Reporter

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Re: Temple of Hmongism
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2015, 07:30:36 PM »
Is this the same as that Poj Koob Yawm Ntxwv organization? They have a White male shaman joining them.


« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 11:43:09 AM by Reporter »

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Offline chidorix0x

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Re: Temple of Hmongism
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2015, 07:55:36 AM »
Is this the same as that Poj Koob Yawm Ntswv organization? They have a White male shaman joining them.

No! They all are different scam (loonies), so-called cultural reformers,  or crazies  ... kekeke ...  >:D ( Take your pick.)

There's a new group in the name of Siv Yis now.  Saw their Utube ad ... kekeke ...  :idiot2:


« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 07:59:47 AM by chidorix0x »

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Offline Reporter

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Re: Temple of Hmongism
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2015, 11:43:38 AM »
So many, huh?

I'm sticking to my Catholicism.

No! They all are different scam (loonies), so-called cultural reformers,  or crazies  ... kekeke ...  >:D ( Take your pick.)

There's a new group in the name of Siv Yis now.  Saw their Utube ad ... kekeke ...  :idiot2:



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