Advertisement

Author Topic: Hmong Land  (Read 35100 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

chidorix0x

  • Guest
Re: Hmong Land
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2015, 05:19:43 AM »
Seeing the state of Hmong politics today and the political leaders that are currently available to us I do not care about Hmong Land. Sounds like a horrible place where shit will be backwards from the USA. If you want to move 20+ years into the past I guess it sounds like an ok idea.

As much as I see how messed up the USA is, it'll be exponentially better than living in "Hmong Land" with ppl like my dad and uncles running the place. As much as I love those guys they should not be running a country and I would not want to live in any country they're running.

Hmong Land - Like living with your parents premanently forever under their roof.

Your comment is a living, breathing, and cancer at the heart of any/ALL Hmong turmoil; past, present, and sadly the future too though hopefully that will not and no longer be the case in the near future.  Let us hope anyway.  There are some positive optimitism forthcoming from what I have been able to observe on a global scale, but it is still very much in its infancy.  Pray it is truly moving in that direction -- towards synergistic harmony -- and just not superficial offerings.

Without going into detail and naming specific individuals, interest groups, and incidents to date; I can honestly say that the majority of Hmong believe, still harbor, and can/will actualize all that which has stagnated (even hindered) Hmong advancement etc. throughout the ages to this very day.  For the last two decades plus, I have discussed (in order to better understand and hopefully provide a catalyst) towards Hmong's  transcendance with a lot of Hmong.  But sadly, all the persons (OGs, leaders, intellects, laypersons) I have sat down with all echo what you have said.  And that is just a drop in the bucket as a whole.

As much as I want, and want Hmong to have their own independent autonomous nation state, the facts speak for themselves.  And the facts are not too compelling whatsoever period.  I will simply paraphrase what some/most elders have said, "Cov tub ntxhais hluas tiam nod, lawd txawj ntse kawg -- yog Drs, lawyers, professionals, intellects etc., tiam sis lawd txoj kev txawj ntse nod tseem coj tau phem tshaj peb cov laus lawm tsis hais tiam nod los cov tiam tag los lawm."  (Your are open to decide for yourself the totality of this allegation.)



Like this post: 0

Adverstisement

Offline Believe_N_Me

  • Elite Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 14023
  • Respect: +454
    • View Profile
Re: Hmong Land
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2015, 03:37:36 PM »
Even though cliques exist among the OGs they are generally cooperative with each other and if left alone they can work together. They've been doing so for years long before coming to America. Their drawback is that they don't have the funds to back their ambitions. So I wouldn't criticize their politics so much because it works for them.

It is the younger generation that is misguided, dispersed, and lack leadership qualities. It is their politics that I want no part of.



Like this post: 0

chidorix0x

  • Guest
Re: Hmong Land
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2015, 04:53:27 PM »
Even though cliques exist among the OGs they are generally cooperative with each other and if left alone they can work together.  They've been doing so for years long before coming to America. Their drawback is that they don't have the funds to back their ambitions. So I wouldn't criticize their politics so much because it works for them.

It is the younger generation that is misguided, dispersed, and lack leadership qualities. It is their politics that I want no part of.

Without devulging too much, or bastardizing both fronts, you do make some good points.

As for the OGs, they have only been doing it for years (in SE Asia) prior to coming to America (the West), mainly because of the "Iron Fist" tactic/s -- or "Rule of Thumb" that everyone adhered/respected/upheld during that time.  Ask any OG (leaders of that time), they will admit it openly nowadays now that they are no longer bound by the "Iron Fist".  All the OGs I have had the pleasure to know, speak with, and spend quality time with have shared their experiences (knowledge/insight) with me for decades till they moved on with the "Sands of Time".  (Sadly, most and/or ALL those OG leaders are now in a better life/world beyond our inquiries, criticism/s, and love and care.  :'()

As for the younger generation, what the OGs have observed and commented/concluded of and about (since Hmong's arrive to the USA/West till now) resonates with my own opinion/belief at the moment.  The younger generation in all likelihood will be no different than what it is now.  Being worst is definitely not out of the question as evidenced by the HA'Mung  ...    :idiot2:  ...  :2funny:



Like this post: 0

thenewbguy

  • Guest
Re: Hmong Land
« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2015, 05:42:30 PM »
Your comment is a living, breathing, and cancer at the heart of any/ALL Hmong turmoil; past, present, and sadly the future too though hopefully that will not and no longer be the case in the near future.  Let us hope anyway.  There are some positive optimitism forthcoming from what I have been able to observe on a global scale, but it is still very much in its infancy.  Pray it is truly moving in that direction -- towards synergistic harmony -- and just not superficial offerings.

Proof of your assertion? Look at the leaders that are available to us now, which one would you want to run a country? Not a single one IMO, they will take us back in progress (socially mostly) from what we're accustomed to in this country. How is me stating the obvious a "cancer"? I did say I have hope for the future but do I want to live in a country where people with backwards and harsh philosophies run the country? No.

Are the Hmong leaders of today actually doing much to help Hmong people advance in the USA? Nope, mostly they worry about themselves, their orgs and their income/future prospects and KEEPING THE STATUS QUO in which they are in charge.

You hold onto tradition and value it but it's the elders fault we all lost it. I have seen it everywhere, our fathers didn't take the time to impart the importance of this onto their children so we don't see it as important. Is that our fault? No.

The elders already take all these shortcuts when it comes to ceremonies and tradition, you think their parents would be cool with them watering down our traditions for convenience? Nope.

See, you're just like the old foggies. You rag on us younger ones because we don't hold Hmong culture and tradition as highly as you think we should but it's your own faults for watering down our traditions and making our community celebration gatherings nothing more than glorified market places. Let's not forget not taking the time to teach us when we're young, now that we're older and have other interests that are more applicable to our lives now you criticize us. Where were you wanting to teach us when we were young? Not at home and didn't care to take the time.

You're like thsoe people who's kids become gangbangers and then lay all the blame on the kid but don't realize what shit parents they are and see their part in how their kid behaves. No accountability or responsibility taken by old Hmong ppl. If kids turn out good it's the parents, if they turn out bad it's the kids. I have had many struggles growing up and though I was not a gang banger I saw many friends who were. It was their parents' lack of understanding their kid's own struggles with identity and growing up in the USA that pushed them to react with bad parenting techniques further pushing their kids away.

Hmong New Years and Soccer tourneys going on everywhere all the time in the USA but what's the point? Hmong cultural awareness and celebration? Nope, the point more often and the primary focus is to make money, not bring the community together. Every year the booths sections get bigger and the section for cultural displays/events gets smaller.

Do I want those leaders who are currently running Hmong people, traditions and culture into the ground running a country? No.

I don't want a Hmong land, what makes you guys think we deserve our own country? That's a little entitled isn't it?

Most ethnic groups do not have their own countries and I don't think we should. The Hmong identity was fractured long ago when we all decided to move from our homeland to our respective Western nations. Now our identity is complex and not nationalistic, which is why we have so many political factions and disagreements. Couple that with half of all Hmong currently going to chruch and half not, this serves as another wedge in our community.

None of our elder leaders I've heard of understand the difficulties and nuances of leadership in the 21st Century. Many of them still run on rumor and hearsay, not facts.

What will happen if we have our own country is shit loads of government corruption, cronyism and women will return to second class citizen status. How do I know this? Because it's already happening in orgs across the country with our most recognized leaders.

So I'm the cancer for not believing in these old fools but they get a pass despite failing to be good stewards of our culture and traditions.


« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 05:51:34 PM by thenewbguy »

Like this post: 0

thenewbguy

  • Guest
Re: Hmong Land
« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2015, 06:18:11 PM »
How is that so?... If its free and cheap meals why not? Country would provide better and more job opportunities for these girls to earn a living thereby they would cease their prostitution for dollars and these pervurted OG and the wicked would have no place to land or exploit these girl, poverty is where prostitution breed fyi.

So you're saying since they already have to be prostitutes there they might as well be prostitutes for Hmong Land? Damn, pretty sinister.

Why not say instead that they'll have a place in Hmong Land where they will be protected from forced prostitution and abuse?

Sadly I think if there ever would be a Hmong Land women will be taken advantage of again.



Like this post: 0

chidorix0x

  • Guest
Re: Hmong Land
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2015, 03:51:26 AM »
Thenewbguy,

For the record, I never said you are/were a cancer.  "Your comment" does not equate to your being. Duh.

And the nonsense about prostitution is  ::) . No further comment warranted.




Like this post: 0

Offline Believe_N_Me

  • Elite Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 14023
  • Respect: +454
    • View Profile
Re: Hmong Land
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2015, 08:14:58 AM »
Proof of your assertion? Look at the leaders that are available to us now, which one would you want to run a country? Not a single one IMO, they will take us back in progress (socially mostly) from what we're accustomed to in this country. How is me stating the obvious a "cancer"? I did say I have hope for the future but do I want to live in a country where people with backwards and harsh philosophies run the country? No.

Are the Hmong leaders of today actually doing much to help Hmong people advance in the USA? Nope, mostly they worry about themselves, their orgs and their income/future prospects and KEEPING THE STATUS QUO in which they are in charge.

You hold onto tradition and value it but it's the elders fault we all lost it. I have seen it everywhere, our fathers didn't take the time to impart the importance of this onto their children so we don't see it as important. Is that our fault? No.

The elders already take all these shortcuts when it comes to ceremonies and tradition, you think their parents would be cool with them watering down our traditions for convenience? Nope.

See, you're just like the old foggies. You rag on us younger ones because we don't hold Hmong culture and tradition as highly as you think we should but it's your own faults for watering down our traditions and making our community celebration gatherings nothing more than glorified market places. Let's not forget not taking the time to teach us when we're young, now that we're older and have other interests that are more applicable to our lives now you criticize us. Where were you wanting to teach us when we were young? Not at home and didn't care to take the time.

You're like thsoe people who's kids become gangbangers and then lay all the blame on the kid but don't realize what shit parents they are and see their part in how their kid behaves. No accountability or responsibility taken by old Hmong ppl. If kids turn out good it's the parents, if they turn out bad it's the kids. I have had many struggles growing up and though I was not a gang banger I saw many friends who were. It was their parents' lack of understanding their kid's own struggles with identity and growing up in the USA that pushed them to react with bad parenting techniques further pushing their kids away.

Hmong New Years and Soccer tourneys going on everywhere all the time in the USA but what's the point? Hmong cultural awareness and celebration? Nope, the point more often and the primary focus is to make money, not bring the community together. Every year the booths sections get bigger and the section for cultural displays/events gets smaller.

Do I want those leaders who are currently running Hmong people, traditions and culture into the ground running a country? No.

I don't want a Hmong land, what makes you guys think we deserve our own country? That's a little entitled isn't it?

Most ethnic groups do not have their own countries and I don't think we should. The Hmong identity was fractured long ago when we all decided to move from our homeland to our respective Western nations. Now our identity is complex and not nationalistic, which is why we have so many political factions and disagreements. Couple that with half of all Hmong currently going to chruch and half not, this serves as another wedge in our community.

None of our elder leaders I've heard of understand the difficulties and nuances of leadership in the 21st Century. Many of them still run on rumor and hearsay, not facts.

What will happen if we have our own country is shit loads of government corruption, cronyism and women will return to second class citizen status. How do I know this? Because it's already happening in orgs across the country with our most recognized leaders.

So I'm the cancer for not believing in these old fools but they get a pass despite failing to be good stewards of our culture and traditions.

Hold up! Wait a minute here....

Exactly what do YOU mean when you say OG?

Everybody you described sounds like what I would call the YOUNGER GENERATION and after. (50 and under - most likely to have received some formal education in Laos and America.)




Like this post: 0

thenewbguy

  • Guest
Re: Hmong Land
« Reply #37 on: January 23, 2015, 03:11:36 PM »
Thenewbguy,

For the record, I never said you are/were a cancer.  "Your comment" does not equate to your being. Duh.

And the nonsense about prostitution is  ::) . No further comment warranted.

Oh because I don't agree with our current leaders then anything I say against them is a "cancer"? Sorry for pointing out the GLARING TRUTH of the situation.

I've worked in the non-profit world for nearly a decade and found that Hmong non-profits aren't taken that seriously because so many of the Hmong non-profits have mismanaged funds. This seems to be a nationwide problem as I have heard of these issues from every area in the USA with a substantial Hmong population. Ethics in politics and business is a new concept to Hmong leaders and business owners. Even our most revered politician/leader GVP was dogged by accusations of murder of political adversaries. He was ruthless with those who disagreed with him, I'm not looking to return to those times. Every other leader so far that has appeared has questionable motives and pedigrees (some claim to be doctors but no PhD???).

All the current "acceptable" leaders we have are old men who want to return to the status quo of their heyday. Because I oppose that and oppose a "Hmong Land" my comments are a "cancer". Yeah because our leaders have done so well for us since we got to the States. Hmong ppl are among the poorest of all the Asian groups still after 30+ years of being in this country.

Yeah I make cancerous statements because they are true and you can't deal with it.



Like this post: 0

thenewbguy

  • Guest
Re: Hmong Land
« Reply #38 on: January 23, 2015, 03:28:13 PM »
Its either I didn't make myself clear or you have severe comprehension problem. NO that's not what I mean, Lao is a poor communist country and many of these Hmong-Lao girl just wants a luxury lifestyle with very limited to none other ways to access it leaving them with the options of prostitution or seducing these OG for American dollars as the most prevalent means...their motive are the same as We Hmong-American getting a college degree for, more money. If granted a country whether they chose to or not Hmong at least has the authority to do something about this and many of the ongoing issues happening in the community and among the people.

It's not the same thing at all, not even close. In one situation a person is bettering themselves on their own through education that is available to them because of their geopraphical location. In another situation a person in power (hmong man in the USA) is using that position of power over a person of a lower socio-economic class (poor Hmong girl from laos) who has few options to escape their poverty.

If you don't see how this could lead to social problems for society down the road then IDK what to say but they are definitely not the same thing, not even close.



Like this post: 0

chidorix0x

  • Guest
Re: Hmong Land
« Reply #39 on: January 23, 2015, 05:28:55 PM »
Oh because I don't agree with our current leaders then anything I say against them is a "cancer"? Sorry for pointing out the GLARING TRUTH of the situation.

I've worked in the non-profit world for nearly a decade and found that Hmong non-profits aren't taken that seriously because so many of the Hmong non-profits have mismanaged funds. This seems to be a nationwide problem as I have heard of these issues from every area in the USA with a substantial Hmong population. Ethics in politics and business is a new concept to Hmong leaders and business owners. Even our most revered politician/leader GVP was dogged by accusations of murder of political adversaries. He was ruthless with those who disagreed with him, I'm not looking to return to those times. Every other leader so far that has appeared has questionable motives and pedigrees (some claim to be doctors but no PhD???).

All the current "acceptable" leaders we have are old men who want to return to the status quo of their heyday. Because I oppose that and oppose a "Hmong Land" my comments are a "cancer". Yeah because our leaders have done so well for us since we got to the States. Hmong ppl are among the poorest of all the Asian groups still after 30+ years of being in this country.

Yeah I make cancerous statements because they are true and you can't deal with it.

 :idiot2:  ...   :2funny:

"  ...  you have severe comprehension problem."  ...  kekeke  ...   >:D

(Reprising/amending your HA'Mung rant is pointless due to "  ...  you have severe comprehension problem."  ...  KEKEKE  ...   8))



Like this post: 0

shina

  • Guest
Re: Hmong Land
« Reply #40 on: January 23, 2015, 07:31:38 PM »
Only very STUPID people would give their hard earned money to any Hmong to go fight for a Hmong Kingdom.  LOL...the Hmong people funded Gen. Vang Pao casino fund for the last 40 years and what did they get out of it??  LOL...now the Vang Pao sons are starting a new foundation called "Hmong Development" to collect more money from the STUPID Hmong people.  Why not??  Hmong are STUPID and would fund it too.  I guess they will collect free money until they die and then their children will carry on with the promise of Hmong Kingdom.  LOL...



Like this post: 0

shina

  • Guest
Re: Hmong Land
« Reply #41 on: January 23, 2015, 07:39:51 PM »
I honestly think "Hmong Land" will never work. 1) Who has the $$$ to down payment, cash, or finance x amount of acres? 2) Who has the W2 to support the purchase/finance 3) If Hmong peoples do decide to come together then who's name will be on the title? 4) Who's paying for property tax? However, I know one Hmong Family who owns almost 400 acres now....pretty impressive.

Additionally, a Hmong Man named Lormong Lo from Omaha, Nebraska who can also be found on Google because of his achievements (Big whoop) went around the Arkansas/Oklahoma area trying to scam Hmong people for money. He presented a very nice program letter stating that Hmong People finally had their own country assuming if they have funding. The program showed the country of Laos with a small cut out "supposedly" belonging to the Hmong people in the near future. It was a nice try but my family didn't fall for it. He later used the money he received to go bullshit in Laos and other Asian countries until his death.

On the other hand, Vang Pao should only receive credit for bringing the Hmong to the U.S. How can he officially be a "General Officer" when he couldn't even spell his name in french? Trying to overthrow the Laotian Government? Of course you will land in jail. Also, Dr. Yang, Dao is unfit to lead. Just because you have a Doctorates degree doesn't mean you'll be a leader. I know plenty of retards with college degrees ranging from a bachelors to doctorates. Leaders MANAGE and find solutions to problems unlike Vang Pao's Son who griped about the 18 Clan issue.

What we need are leaders who are fair, understands the Hmong Culture, & leads for the betterment of the Hmong populations well being. Most likely somebody who is not from the older generation because we all know they are narrow minded and stubborn. Somebody(s) who is an educated, logical, born-leader who puts the Hmong People before himself. Maybe one day he/she will rise.
                                                                                                                                                                            -P5

Good luck finding such a Hmong man...LOL...al l Hmong men are crooks, degree or not



Like this post: 0

shina

  • Guest
Re: Hmong Land
« Reply #42 on: January 23, 2015, 07:42:23 PM »
Lol, ??? you think like I do. I don't believe that having a doctors degree make you in charge of a group of people. I'm not sure if the Hmong guy from Omaha was the guy that went to Laos and got killed. I'm pretty sure either way it was for black markets. I would say that if you believe you would get a chance to live in Laos again "freely", I don't think so. Here in America there are laws that you can't break. In Laos the laws are different. You are more protected here in America vs in Laos. I'm pretty sure if the Old Soldiers go back to live in Laos, all of them would either get kidnapped or murder. Due to being a part of the Vietnam War. History is right in our eyes, but why do some people choose to rebuild the past.

The guy from Omaha was Laomong Lor and he died of cancer.  The guy was a talker, but he was Hmong first City Council man elected by blacks and whites, not Hmong people



Like this post: 0

shina

  • Guest
Re: Hmong Land
« Reply #43 on: January 23, 2015, 07:47:23 PM »
Seeing the state of Hmong politics today and the political leaders that are currently available to us I do not care about Hmong Land. Sounds like a horrible place where shit will be backwards from the USA. If you want to move 20+ years into the past I guess it sounds like an ok idea.

As much as I see how messed up the USA is, it'll be exponentially better than living in "Hmong Land" with ppl like my dad and uncles running the place. As much as I love those guys they should not be running a country and I would not want to live in any country they're running.

Hmong Land - Like living with your parents premanently forever under their roof.

I'm glad you young people are smart enough to realize that and don't waste your money funding a dead cause.  Who the hell DUMB enough to want to go live in a third world country when you are living in the best country already??



Like this post: 0

shina

  • Guest
Re: Hmong Land
« Reply #44 on: January 23, 2015, 08:02:49 PM »
Please list the benefits.

Where is Hmong Kingdom??  Laos??  Laos has never been a Hmong country.  Learn your history first before wasting your money on it.  Hmong were illegal aliens sneaking into Laos. They hided on the northern mountains of Laos until the French came to colonize.  Hmong refused to pay taxes, so the French killed and sold many Hmong children.  This was how the Krazy War started. The French got smarter and decided to recruit Hmong people to collect taxes from Hmong.  This was where our history begun. 

Make no mistake, the UN or US has no power to give or divide Laos into two countries so the Hmong can have a land.  Well, they must kill all Laotians first before this can happen because Lao people are not going to give up their country to us.   Can you see the US government killing all Laotians without the Chinese interference??   It's not going to be easy because China is starting to have too much influences in Lao economy.  If Hmong were to get a piece of Laos, Gen. Vang Pao would have handed to us long time ago.  Now, it's impossible.   The only possible thing for Hmong people is to work harder and make the most of the opportunities this great nation called USA has given us.  Go tell your kids to go to college and do something great!!!



Like this post: 0

 

Advertisements