The Politics of Being Liberal or Conservative...

[Evil_K_Man]

However, let us not digress, we should get back to the subject at hand so we can have a healthy debate.

This debate concluded when you failed to refute and back up your arguments.

[bulbasaur]

The debate is concluded when you failed to refute any of my arguments.  In fact, explain exactly which part you actually disagree with?  You admitted that the ACA is also political, thus, you admit that I am correct.  Yet, here you are all mad.   

This debate concluded when you failed to refute and back up your arguments.

[Evil_K_Man]

.......the ACA is also ......correct.

So you agree with me? Point proven!

[bulbasaur]

 

So you agree with me? Point proven!

[thenewbguy]

The label of being politically liberal or conservative doesn't really serve the individual as much as it serves the politicians.  It doesn't even serve the actual politics.  Think about this: Politicians get paid.  Chances are that they get paid more being a politician than their otherwise occupation.  Or at the very least, being a politician is much less work for the pay.  The next time you want to argue about how liberals or conservatives are right or wrong, you should consider who is benefiting from it the most. 

Republicans and Democrats benefit from the perceived failures of the other.  They both like to argue that things would be different if they were in control.  However, a similar result would have most likely happened regardless of who was in control.   Look back at all the losers of the recent elections.  Would things really have been radically different if it were Romney, McCain, Kerry, Gore, Dole, Bush?

Sure they are labels that apply to people and it goes beyond politics but it is political language.

I don't agree with the premise that all those politicians would've been the same but I do agree there are overall trends which were set in motion decades ago and are continuting today like the gutting of the middle class that neither party has dealt with. I think if Gore would've won we wouldn't have gone to Iraq, maybe Afghanistan but not Iraq since Cheney was the chief architect of Iraq.

I do think labels apply but everyone is a mix of liberal and conservative ideas. Heck, even I have some conservative ideas and come down on the conservative side on a few issues. The vast majority of people are moderates and even the seemingly die hard conservatives and liberals in here would agree on a lot of issues if we spoke face to face.

Polls already show the vast majority of the American public (even conservative republicans) support many liberal ideas: universal health care now supported by a majority, legalization of weed, marriage equality, higher corporate/rich tax rates.

[bulbasaur]

Even if Gore was President, we still might have gone to Iraq.  The Republicans voted for the Iraq Resolution in 2002. Also, about 40% of Democrats still voted for the Iraq Resolution.  In the Senate, Democrats voted for the Iraq Resolution 29-21.   And in 2002, the American public was all about taking down all kinds of perceived terrorism, and Saddam was at the perceived top.  It would have been difficult for Gore to not take action. 

Sure they are labels that apply to people and it goes beyond politics but it is political language.

I don't agree with the premise that all those politicians would've been the same but I do agree there are overall trends which were set in motion decades ago and are continuting today like the gutting of the middle class that neither party has dealt with. I think if Gore would've won we wouldn't have gone to Iraq, maybe Afghanistan but not Iraq since Cheney was the chief architect of Iraq.

I do think labels apply but everyone is a mix of liberal and conservative ideas. Heck, even I have some conservative ideas and come down on the conservative side on a few issues. The vast majority of people are moderates and even the seemingly die hard conservatives and liberals in here would agree on a lot of issues if we spoke face to face.

Polls already show the vast majority of the American public (even conservative republicans) support many liberal ideas: universal health care now supported by a majority, legalization of weed, marriage equality, higher corporate/rich tax rates.

[thenewbguy]

Even if Gore was President, we still might have gone to Iraq.  The Republicans voted for the Iraq Resolution in 2002. Also, about 40% of Democrats still voted for the Iraq Resolution.  In the Senate, Democrats voted for the Iraq Resolution 29-21.   And in 2002, the American public was all about taking down all kinds of perceived terrorism, and Saddam was at the perceived top.  It would have been difficult for Gore to not take action.

I suppose anything could've happened but I don't think we would've gone to Iraq with Gore. Here's the reason: The Bush admin was the primary driver of going to Iraq. They provided all the false intelligence and false narrative that Congress voted on. Without that impetus I don't think we would've gone to war. Just follow the money, Cheney gets us into war, Halliburton gets billions in governement contracts (Cheney's old company), Cheney gets cash kickback in the millions from Halliburton.

They presented fake evidence to Congress and Congress voted in good conscience that the information provided to them by the administration was correct. They were misled.

Though I'm not naive and know that both parties are bought and sold by corporations there is a HUGE difference between Dems and the GOP. Dems are at least trying to govern in a shitty system, the GOP has done almost nothing to govern. I can name a handful of platform ideas the Dems have proposed, can't name a one the GOP has proposed.

GOP wins both houses and their first order of business is to gut Dodd-Frank and let banks gamble with our money even to a riskier degree than previously when they crashed our economy. They also voted to repeal the ACA (Obamacare) for the 56th time. They've spent more time trying to repeal Obamacare than actually passing any laws to help anyone but the rich and the corps.

Right now no GOP rep has any major ideas to address any of our major national issues. They are not interested in governing...ju st grabbing the cash and running, at least the Dems try.

[bulbasaur]

Over a year later, and guess who was proven correct.   

1.  Obamacare is STILL being used as a political tool.  Whether or not you believe the ACA is good or bad, it is used politically.  Heck, the name itself, "Obamacare," should be a dead giveaway that it is political.  We call it Obamacare more than we call it the Affordable Care Act.

2.  And now that we're back in an election year, the politicians are going to try to rally the masses against the "evils" of the other side.  Having the people fight among themselves saves them the trouble of having to actually do anything.