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Author Topic: Pro Shot Shooting System  (Read 10810 times)

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bulbasaur

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Pro Shot Shooting System
« on: March 01, 2015, 11:23:59 PM »
Anyone watch their videos?  They aren't necessarily wrong in what they teach, but they aren't completely correct in their analysis either.  In fact, I shoot very similar to their methods.  Anyways, let's break their analysis down...

1.  They complain about BEEF and promote FOREST.  The BEEF method is a part of their FOREST method.  How can they insult BEEF when FOREST incorporates it also?  They say that BEEF is incomplete and needs explanation.  However, FOREST also needs explanation.  If a player had to choose one to use on the court, BEEF might be better because it is easier to remember 4 simple steps vs. FOREST with 6 steps.  FOREST might be good for the classroom, but then, why not have THE FOREST so it can be even more "complete." 

2.  They insult "squaring up."  Pro Shot literally interprets squaring up as standing straight up and down.  Then, they insult it, and they teach the "turn."  However, people who teach the "square up" method follow up with the explanation, "Now, put your power foot forward a bit."  Guess what?  The "Square Up" method also teaches the "turn."  They simply don't call it the "turn." 

3.  They use NBA clips to prove their points.  They will say, "Hey look!  Curry uses the hop method."  Yes, it is true that Curry uses the hop method.  However, Curry also uses the 1-2 method along with many other methods.  Pro Shot simply chose specific clips that promote their system while ignoring clips that go against their system. 

More ranting as I get annoyed with their videos.  Again, there is nothing wrong with their system of shooting.  Their analysis is simply not completely correct. 



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bulbasaur

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Re: Pro Shot Shooting System
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2015, 06:25:45 PM »
4. Which finger to use?  Pro Shot promotes the index in the middle of the ball, and insults all others.  Personally, I actually use the index finger as they promote, and I use it for the exact reasons they claim.  However, that is not to say that other methods are invalid.  Can you shoot with the middle finger in the middle of the ball?  Yes.  Simply adjust the elbow.  Can you shoot with the center of the ball between the index and the middle?  Yes.  Again, simply adjust the elbow.  People should use the finger that they are most comfortable with.  If you are a new player and you feel comfortable using anything, then go ahead and use the index because it is less adjustment.  Pro Shot makes it seem that the difference is night and day, but it's not.  Like Pro Shot, I am an index finger shooter, but I can easily switch between the methods.  If you understand basic shooting mechanics, it is not that hard to make the adjustments.  For in-game, go with what you practiced and are most comfortable with. 

More rantings as I get annoyed with their videos. 



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Offline thePoster

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Re: Pro Shot Shooting System
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2015, 09:07:23 PM »
I tried to watch one video..

To see what you're ranting about and...

I couldn't watch it...

I learned to play by myself... with no coach... just watching t.v. and mimicking player's I liked.

Here are two thing's I've learned from watching a movie and sometime I saw a long time ago on t.v. like way before the day's of youtube.

I watched "Above the Rim" with tupac... and at the very end of the movie... one of the kid I believe he ends up in georgetown and shoots a winning shot.. and the commentator ask him what he was thinking and he said all he could think was getting that rotation on the ball...

Every since that, everytime I shoot, I'm not happy unless I get a nice nice rotation on the ball.  I want that ball spinning!  Not a slow rotation but a nice medium if not fast rotation on the ball.  So I guess I flip the ball when I shoot, my hand will usually snap way down to get that nice rotation on the ball.  Ever since then, every shot I take, I try my best to put a nice rotation on the ball, plus it makes a nice swoosh sound when you get nothing but net.

Secondly... the other thing I learned from t.v. a long long long time ago.. was... the index finger thing... I remember a guy on t.v. saying make sure you keep your index finger in the middle of the ball.   I try to think about it when I shoot, but I doubt I ever keep my index finger in the middle, it's too much position I think.  I don't think I ever put my index finger in the middle though as my "shot" looks weird.  So the index finger thing I've heard and learned it, but I never used it, I think I might only shoot it with the index finger for free throws as my free throws are pretty good.

And then from mimicking player's I like.  I the way Kobe shoots.. but he got his shot from micheal...

I like their shots... I like how their arms extend out and their legs kick out...with a little jump but mixed with a fadeaway...

All my shots are like fadeaways...

I think my shot looks like that..but appearantly it doesn't according to other people...

So that's how I model my shot...


A long time ago I use to like doing rainbow shots.  I thought it looked cool, I kinda went away from that.  They would go in too.

I'd say the best way to learn how to play is just go out and play and play with better people than you, that way you can develop skills and shots to overcome those players... and therefore you'll learn new stuff in my opinion.




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I went through all 15k posts and those 2 quotes I found were the only ones so I guess that would make it "everytime".  Feel free to go through all 15k posts and verify by quoting them all.  You need to quote them all to verifying prove "everytime".   Please verify that Im wrong.

bulbasaur

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Re: Pro Shot Shooting System
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2015, 11:48:10 PM »
Everyone has their own preference to shooting, but...

1.  The rotational speed on the ball will vary among players.  The ball doesn't need to be spinning like a record, but there should be rotation.  Rotation is a sign of a good snap. 

2.  It's weird that you aren't shooting the same way each time.  That's probably not an efficient way to become a good shooter.

3.  All your shots shouldn't really be fades, but as long as they go in, then it doesn't really matter. 

4.  Shots should have an arc.  It's possible to make shots without much arc, but there is a risk of being streaky. 

5.  Shooting mechanics is different from winning games.  For example, Shaq is a great player, but he can't shoot.  Just because Shaq can't shoot, that doesn't mean that people shouldn't learn to shoot. 

I tried to watch one video..

To see what you're ranting about and...

I couldn't watch it...

I learned to play by myself... with no coach... just watching t.v. and mimicking player's I liked.

Here are two thing's I've learned from watching a movie and sometime I saw a long time ago on t.v. like way before the day's of youtube.

I watched "Above the Rim" with tupac... and at the very end of the movie... one of the kid I believe he ends up in georgetown and shoots a winning shot.. and the commentator ask him what he was thinking and he said all he could think was getting that rotation on the ball...

Every since that, everytime I shoot, I'm not happy unless I get a nice nice rotation on the ball.  I want that ball spinning!  Not a slow rotation but a nice medium if not fast rotation on the ball.  So I guess I flip the ball when I shoot, my hand will usually snap way down to get that nice rotation on the ball.  Ever since then, every shot I take, I try my best to put a nice rotation on the ball, plus it makes a nice swoosh sound when you get nothing but net.

Secondly... the other thing I learned from t.v. a long long long time ago.. was... the index finger thing... I remember a guy on t.v. saying make sure you keep your index finger in the middle of the ball.   I try to think about it when I shoot, but I doubt I ever keep my index finger in the middle, it's too much position I think.  I don't think I ever put my index finger in the middle though as my "shot" looks weird.  So the index finger thing I've heard and learned it, but I never used it, I think I might only shoot it with the index finger for free throws as my free throws are pretty good.

And then from mimicking player's I like.  I the way Kobe shoots.. but he got his shot from micheal...

I like their shots... I like how their arms extend out and their legs kick out...with a little jump but mixed with a fadeaway...

All my shots are like fadeaways...

I think my shot looks like that..but appearantly it doesn't according to other people...

So that's how I model my shot...


A long time ago I use to like doing rainbow shots.  I thought it looked cool, I kinda went away from that.  They would go in too.

I'd say the best way to learn how to play is just go out and play and play with better people than you, that way you can develop skills and shots to overcome those players... and therefore you'll learn new stuff in my opinion.



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bulbasaur

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Re: Pro Shot Shooting System
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2015, 03:44:19 AM »
Adding to the Pro Shot Shooting rant....

5.  They claim that people who attend their camp leave as better shooters; therefore, their method is justified as the true method.  However, that is a misleading claim and statistic (if they even have the statistic).  First, their camp is essentially practice.  Of course players are going to get better with more practice.  I can hold a camp and not teach anything about shooting, but simply make the participants take hundreds of shots a day.  By the end, the participants will probably be better.  A better comparison would be whether or not the lessons taught got the most improvement out of the participants, but that is much harder to prove.  Second, we have to compare the participants in these camps.  I am willing to bet that most of these participants are young people.  They have very little experience, so virtually any viable method will probably produce positive results.  I'd like to see a 85% free throw shooter, age 25, who shoots a different method, then try to adopt the Pro Shot method.  85% is a decent percentage, but not really top tier.  Can the 85% shooter increase his percentage to 90-95%?  Can a 90% shooter go up to 95%?  Truth is, if you're a 30% free throw shooter, you have no where to go but up.  In the end, pointing to their camp as evidence is not really the best way to prove their method.   


« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 03:46:30 AM by bulbasaur »

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Offline thePoster

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Re: Pro Shot Shooting System
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2015, 07:59:18 AM »
I'll probably never do pro shot shooting becuase I think it looks dorkie.



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I went through all 15k posts and those 2 quotes I found were the only ones so I guess that would make it "everytime".  Feel free to go through all 15k posts and verify by quoting them all.  You need to quote them all to verifying prove "everytime".   Please verify that Im wrong.

bulbasaur

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Re: Pro Shot Shooting System
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2015, 08:09:50 AM »
But fading back while kicking one leg out on an open shot is not dorkie?   :2funny:

I'll probably never do pro shot shooting becuase I think it looks dorkie.



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bulbasaur

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Re: Pro Shot Shooting System
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2015, 06:03:17 PM »
6.  Pro Shot claims that the mid-range pull-up jumper is a lost art because people don't know how to do it.  Their evidence is that NBA players don't use it as much, but the ones that do are All Stars. Unfortunately, that is only a half truth.  Players don't pull-up as much because it's not worth it.  Coaches have figured this out.  If the choice is a 3 pointer, a drive, or a pull-up, then the pull-up might be on the bottom of that list.  The risk-reward is better with taking a 3 pointer or a drive than taking a pull-up.  A good 3 point shooter might be 40%.  Take 10 shots, you get 12 points.  A good pull-up shooter might be 50%.  Take 10 shots, you get 10 points.  Add to the fact that a pull-up will be better defended, then the percentage might go down.  Add to the fact that taking a 3 stretches the floor, it is a benefit to the offense.  Add to the fact that driving to the basket creates fouls/free throws, it is a benefit. 

As for the NBA players they list as great pull-up shooters...the y only list players who are isolation players, except for Chris Paul.  However, why would anyone consider Paul to be a great shooter?  He's not bad, but great? 

Again, Pro Shot only tells a half truth.  More rantings as I get annoyed with their videos. 



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Offline thePoster

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Re: Pro Shot Shooting System
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2015, 09:37:00 PM »
It's not dorkie... it's the Dirk Shot!

Anyways...

The first time I felt that was way back in the day...

I had recently transfered to a new high school becuase my family had moved.

Anyways it was PE class.

All the classes was let loose to play basketball or whatever. 

The varsity basketball team was there.. playing/practicing, you know how it goes, during their PE class the coaches have them practice and play basketball.

I don't know why, but I think this one guy didn't like me.

Class was over everyone was dressed and sitting on the courtside waiting for the bell to ring, the vasity players were playing straight through into practice, it was the last class of the day.

This one guy on the team kept looking at me and I believed he was talking shit to me, I never did anything to him.  Then he would take his shot.

And I remember thinking to myself "Your shot looks dorkie, you look like you're squating down to take a shit".

He shoots like he's shooting a free throw except from the 3 point line.

Squares up, looking straight at the basket.

Bends the knees and get's down in a squat like position.

ETc etc etc, pretty much your standard high school free throw form.

Like I said I remember thinking "Dude, you look so dorkie right now you don't even know it, you look like you're squating down to take a shit and that shot looks so uncomfortable"

Ever since then, I never shot like that and never will.




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I went through all 15k posts and those 2 quotes I found were the only ones so I guess that would make it "everytime".  Feel free to go through all 15k posts and verify by quoting them all.  You need to quote them all to verifying prove "everytime".   Please verify that Im wrong.

bulbasaur

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Re: Pro Shot Shooting System
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2015, 10:15:33 PM »
Using your logic, they are not dorkie either.  It's the JJ Shot.  It's not fair to call it dorkie because a lot of people shot that way, and they are very successful. 

Bill Gates looks like a dork.  Studying.  Programming.  Business.  Using your logic, we shouldn't follow Gates' example. 

Trash talking is part of old school basketball.  You should have talked trash back and beat him.  Then again, maybe you are new school. 

BTW, the way you described that guy's shot is not how Pro Shot teaches; it's not how most good shooters shoot either. 



It's not dorkie... it's the Dirk Shot!

Anyways...

The first time I felt that was way back in the day...

I had recently transfered to a new high school becuase my family had moved.

Anyways it was PE class.

All the classes was let loose to play basketball or whatever. 

The varsity basketball team was there.. playing/practicing, you know how it goes, during their PE class the coaches have them practice and play basketball.

I don't know why, but I think this one guy didn't like me.

Class was over everyone was dressed and sitting on the courtside waiting for the bell to ring, the vasity players were playing straight through into practice, it was the last class of the day.

This one guy on the team kept looking at me and I believed he was talking shit to me, I never did anything to him.  Then he would take his shot.

And I remember thinking to myself "Your shot looks dorkie, you look like you're squating down to take a shit".

He shoots like he's shooting a free throw except from the 3 point line.

Squares up, looking straight at the basket.

Bends the knees and get's down in a squat like position.

ETc etc etc, pretty much your standard high school free throw form.

Like I said I remember thinking "Dude, you look so dorkie right now you don't even know it, you look like you're squating down to take a shit and that shot looks so uncomfortable"

Ever since then, I never shot like that and never will.



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bulbasaur

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Re: Pro Shot Shooting System
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2015, 11:13:25 PM »
7. The Fog.  Pro Shot likes to say, "At Pro Shot, we love to talk about The Fog."  Well, let's examine this "fog" of theirs.  They claim that some people live in The Fog because they think they are doing one thing, but in reality, they are doing something different. 

Pro Shot shows clips of players stating that shooters should land in the same place where they jumped.  Then, Pro Shot will show clips of those same players shooting and landing in a different spot.  They will then claim that they are correct and everyone else is wrong.  Unfortunately, this is not really true.  Pro Shot actually misinterpreted what the players meant.  Many players will consider a small shift forward to still be the same spot.  Pro Shot used Kevin Love as an example of a player living in the fog, but Pro Shot conveniently ignored that Love actually said "almost"  in the same spot; Love did not say the "exact" same spot.  When players and shooters say "land in the same spot," what they really mean is "don't be jumping 2 feet away out of control." 

Pro Shot also argues that some players square their feet on free throws, but turn on their jumpers.  They claim that these players also live in The Fog.  Unfortunately, this is probably not really true, either.  Did it ever occur to Pro Shot that a player could have more than just one kind of shot?  I really don't understand why Pro Shot is so easily confused by this.  The perfect example would be Rick Barry.  Barry shot granny shots for free throws.  It's obvious he has more than one kind of shot.  Barry (like many of the other players Pro Shot denigrates) isn't confused; he simply has two different forms. 

Pro Shot thinks they are arguing one thing, but in reality, they are arguing something totally different. Who is actually living in The Fog? 

More rantings as I get annoyed with their videos. 



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Offline thePoster

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Re: Pro Shot Shooting System
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2015, 10:36:55 PM »
I was watching one... the one where it says why d rose and r brook are bad shooter...


I don't care much for all these scientific reasonings...

I think the guy's stupid.


Some guys just shoot better becuase they practice more, thats the way I see it.

D rose and R brook probably don't practice that much ... that's why.



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I went through all 15k posts and those 2 quotes I found were the only ones so I guess that would make it "everytime".  Feel free to go through all 15k posts and verify by quoting them all.  You need to quote them all to verifying prove "everytime".   Please verify that Im wrong.

bulbasaur

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Re: Pro Shot Shooting System
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2015, 07:43:55 PM »
I also disagree with their analysis of Rose's shot.  Pro Shot says that Rose isn't a great shooter because he jumps too high.  However, there isn't anything necessarily wrong with his mechanics; he's lined up, he extends, he follows through, etc.  Does Pro Shot really think that simply not jumping as high is going to make Rose a better shooter?  That's doubtful.  Rose bases his game on his penetration, and that is why his jumper isn't great.  He simply doesn't practice his jumper as much.  There is no huge flaw in his mechanics. 

Or, think of it this way.  The best shooters are not always great drivers.  Why?  Because shooters clearly practice their shot more than their drive. 

In a few years, if Rose is still in the league, Rose might be a better shooter.  Pro Shot will say, "Look, he doesn't jump as high anymore.  He took our advice, and he's a better shooter."  Pro Shot will conveniently ignore that Rose had to practice shooting more as his legs don't allow him to penetrate as effectively.  That means that Rose can't jump as high anymore.  That means Rose had to change his game, and that means more practice with his jumper. 

I was watching one... the one where it says why d rose and r brook are bad shooter...


I don't care much for all these scientific reasonings...

I think the guy's stupid.


Some guys just shoot better becuase they practice more, thats the way I see it.

D rose and R brook probably don't practice that much ... that's why.



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bulbasaur

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Re: Pro Shot Shooting System
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2015, 08:35:46 AM »
Some posts got lost.  Oh well.  I should be fair and say that Pro Shot has eased up on their self-righteousness in some of their more recent videos...a bit.  I believe they are slowly realizing that they aren't completely right, and that there are other viable methods out there.  Unfortunately, they haven't fully figured it out yet, so let's rant some more on their illogical videos...

8.  The Hop.  Pro Shot says that shooters should hop to receive the ball.  They claim that hopping makes you a better athlete, and that you can get your shot off faster.  And as always, they show NBA clips to prove their point.  And as always, they are not completely right. 

First, there is nothing wrong with hopping into catching the ball.  Pro Shot insults the 1-2 step, but the 1-2 step is also important in many situations.  In one video, Pro Shot was clearly trying to get Ray Allen to say that the hop is better than the 1-2.  Ray Allen looked quite annoyed in the video.  Unfortunately for Pro Shot, Ray Allen schooled them on the importance of having different types of shots.  Anyone who has ever played enough basketball knows this.  Pro Shot finally seemed to have eased up on their stance about the hop after the Ray Allen interview.  Here is the video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw9KA1yxOME

Second, Pro Shot loves to use Kyle Korver as an example of their method.  They say that Korver hops into his shot.  It is true that Korver hops, but not always.  Like Ray Allen, Korver understands the importance of having different types of shots.  Here is a video of Korver shooting.  Sometimes he hops.  Sometimes he 1-2 with the right.  Sometimes he 1-2 with the left.  1-2 with the left as a right-handed shooter is difficult, but Korver clearly thinks it is important.  Here is the video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJH8O3Zzl-s

Third, hopping does not make you a better athlete.  Better athletes will tend to hop.  Like many of their illogical claims, they can't seem to differentiate between cause and effect.  Think of it this way: Running a marathon in under 3 hours does not make you a better athlete.  Why?  Because you have to be a good athlete before you can run a marathon in under 3 hours.  Running a marathon in under 3 hours is an effect of being a good athlete, not the other way around. 

More rantings as they come...




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bulbasaur

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Re: Pro Shot Shooting System
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2015, 08:54:20 AM »
I think I have finally figured out this guy's problem.  I don't think he played much basketball in his life.   He might have played some, but probably not much.  He said he became a coach at 20.  At 20, most ballers are playing, not coaching.  He might have been balling and coaching at the same time, but I get the feeling he was coaching more than he was balling.  This would explain why he has such a hard time understanding that people have/need different shots.  Anyone who has played enough good basketball knows this.  Then again, maybe he did play a lot of ball, and he simply doesn't get it.  Who knows?  I'll use myself as the example this time....

When I first started to learn to shoot, I simply copied other good shooters.  I dipped the ball, 1-2 step, shot.  I got pretty good at it.  90% from the FT, 80% 3PT (high school).  Unfortunately, dipping the ball and 1-2 stepping was too much of a giveaway for the defense.  The defense quickly learned when I wanted to shoot, and when I didn't.   So, I added a stand-still shot.  When they figured that out, I added a no-dip shot.  When they figured that out, I added a flick shot above my head.  When they figured that out, I did a power hop/jump.  And it goes on.  Mix these things together, and the defense has a harder time guessing the jump shot.  All of this was just done by me playing pick-up ball.  Imagine what professionals go through. 

Pro Shot Guy has one way of thought because that is the way that works for him.  It might be a good way of teaching a new player, but it is a poor way of analyzing the game.  It's an awful way to make an argument.  For an older guy, he hasn't figured out some of the basics yet. 


« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 09:04:14 AM by bulbasaur »

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