Fresno police release more details about murder-suicide in fresno cal

[Sydney]

I see more and more Hmong letting go of the "bad" so I'm sure we will get there someday where the majority if not all will have the common sense to see the light...

I know, right? 

[sam]

Her generation was the generation menyuam laib.  Girls tend to disappear for days or months.  I believe that a normal family will not let their daughter get marry at that young age.  Unless she was menyuam laib and niamtxiv hais tsis tau es kam liam nws lawm xwb.  But over all, as parents--please love your children.  It's not about child support or who gets all the children.  Help take care your children.  Don't make each others suffer.  Split the children evenly and raise them up.  Be civil to each others.

[Envy2]

When I first heard of this  I was like "dam duckking Hmong people". Guess I hit the nail when the names came out. This is a sad ending. Hmong men need to realize that ain't the only "cat" in the world.

[lost_forever]

thanks for the update.  I don't know what to think of this...It doesn't make any sense why she is living in the garage when it says they have been separated for 7 years, she works the clinic for 10 years. I'm assuming this is all because of revenge and bitterness. 

[Special_K]

This has nothing to do with tradition.. culture or whatever. What it boils down to is, if she was treated so poorly, why didn't she leave? Don't tell me she had no where to go.. there are shelters, her parents? Siblings?

All those other options would have been better than living in an abusive husband's garage.

[lost_forever]

 That's what I'm curious about to.  What about her parents place ? She had a decent job and I'm sure she would qualify for welfare. 

[theking]

It's hard to say...

Having worked with DV victims in the past, I know that it's not as simple as we think for some...I personally have to encouraged some victims enough times before they can see the light and mustered enough courage to press charge against their abusers. And it's not just Asian victims but Black, Spanish, and White victims as well.

For some, they have been oppressed and traumatized for so long that they feel worthless and useless so even something as simple as calling 9-1-1 is hard for them to do.

You guys remembered the White girl (Elizabeth Smart?) from Lake Tahoe that was kidnapped?

She had several opportunities to escape but didn't because she didn't have the courage to after being traumatized for so long.

For this Vang girl, I bet she went to her side for help but was told to go back to her husband due to the "loose face" factor...

[VillainousHero]

Similar things keep happening/repeating because the issue has never been permanently fixed or addressed.  We know we cannot control public criticism or prevent people from being so defensive, but as a whole, this sort of killing problem can be minimized. 

We need to study, discuss, dissect and change most of the harmful elements/practices in our culture in order to become stronger and healthier for future generation.

As the saying goes, keep the good and throw the bad out.  Same goes for our culture or traditional practices.  We have to learn how to let go, so our cup won't be so full in order to absorb new values.

Peace.

Let's examine a few things.

Marry young and die young.  It's not a culture nor traditional practice.  It's a reality when you know you're going to live 40-50 yrs in a third world country - even less while being hunted down refugees.  Now after being refugees with modern nutrition and medical care, the life expectancies has prolonged.  No one knows how long they'll live to begin with.

Buying - buying a bride or buying a prostitute for life?  It's not a culture nor traditional practice.  It's the dark side of human society.

Hmong marriages - Did they ever filed for marriage?  Probably not when she was a minor.  She's not married.  This court has no records of your marriage, but according to your cohabitation evidence...She knew what she was doing when she went to court.  nuff said.

Hmong marriages - Does not have to involve any exchange of money.  Yes truthfully traditional practice.  Then how is one going to pay respect?  There's options at negotiating table. 

Lovers elope - Then claim they want to get married.  Rebels.

Bride-napping - or kidnapping - groom-napping: Hey what ever happened to these issues?  More deviant human behavior.  Who's going to claim this as part of their culture?  Pirates of the Jungle!

Don't get me wrong.  When some Hmong want to claim parts of dark societal behavior as part of their Hmong culture, I just don't know what to say to that.  Some things are just all about the realities of society. 

[gr3nd3l]

I've heard some say they were married in the old country, are there any truth to that? or were they married in the states?

[Sydney]

Let's examine a few things.

Marry young and die young.  It's not a culture nor traditional practice.  It's a reality when you know you're going to live 40-50 yrs in a third world country - even less while being hunted down refugees.  Now after being refugees with modern nutrition and medical care, the life expectancies has prolonged.  No one knows how long they'll live to begin with.

Buying - buying a bride or buying a prostitute for life?  It's not a culture nor traditional practice.  It's the dark side of human society.

Hmong marriages - Did they ever filed for marriage?  Probably not when she was a minor.  She's not married.  This court has no records of your marriage, but according to your cohabitation evidence...She knew what she was doing when she went to court.  nuff said.

Hmong marriages - Does not have to involve any exchange of money.  Yes truthfully traditional practice.  Then how is one going to pay respect?  There's options at negotiating table. 

Lovers elope - Then claim they want to get married.  Rebels.

Bride-napping - or kidnapping - groom-napping: Hey what ever happened to these issues?  More deviant human behavior.  Who's going to claim this as part of their culture?  Pirates of the Jungle!

Don't get me wrong.  When some Hmong want to claim parts of dark societal behavior as part of their Hmong culture, I just don't know what to say to that.  Some things are just all about the realities of society.

Not sure what to make of your response, but its all about personal identities. 

Even though all of us are of the same Hmong origin, we practice/recognize the same set of values differently.   Therefore, we are of not one, but many people with many distinguished characteristic s, knowledge, experiences and belief systems.  With that being said, if people claim certain aspects of their culture as part of their Hmong culture, it is actually not incorrect because its a part of who they are/know. 

I believe there are some good traditional values as well as modern values.  We just have allow people the freedom to choose, so hopefully, all the negative values can be replaced by the positive ones. 

Each to their own interest/preferences based on their own limited understanding.  That is the reality.

[VillainousHero]

Not sure what to make of your response, but its all about personal identities. 

Even though all of us are of the same Hmong origin, we practice/recognize the same set of values differently.   Therefore, we are of not one, but many people with many distinguished characteristic s, knowledge, experiences and belief systems.  With that being said, if people claim certain aspects of their culture as part of their Hmong culture, it is actually not incorrect because its a part of who they are/know. 

I believe there are some good traditional values as well as modern values.  We just have allow people the freedom to choose, so hopefully, all the negative values can be replaced by the positive ones. 

Each to their own interest/preferences based on their own limited understanding.  That is the reality.

So this goes back to culture being attributed to one individual's practice - when followed becomes tradition - when there's a local following becomes a culture. The Hmong experience, even globally human society has become more deviant.  This freedom of expression leads to more coming out of the closet behaviors.  Now some people out of ignorance are going to vocally claim those things as traditional culture.  Perhaps it is, perhaps it's not.  We understand how American pop culture works, so in a way it can be done.  However the confusion is Hmong people claiming American pop culture as traditional Hmong culture.  These things are so blended that people can no longer separate one or the other.  What's even worst is erroneous/derogatory labels are being applied and ignorant people are continuously using them.

Ask a Hmong what takes place on July 4th.  Oh it's a traditional holiday where we hold a big time soccer tournament and other sports.

Ask a Hmong what takes place on Thanksgiving.  Oh it's a tradition for Hmong New Year.  (You mean Hmong Thanksgiving.  No Hmong New Year.)

We know how easily Hmong can assimilate other cultures where ever they end up populating.  Our identity becomes permutations and we just start claiming things as culture.  Things like selling brides, kidnapping brides, multiple wives, are now part of the claimed culture.  Maybe it's all superficial, but nonetheless we are tagged with those associations as our identity now.

This murder-suicide will blow over as soon as the media finds something else juicy.

[SummerBerry]

thanks for the update.  I don't know what to think of this...It doesn't make any sense why she is living in the garage when it says they have been separated for 7 years, she works the clinic for 10 years. I'm assuming this is all because of revenge and bitterness.

Separated in 2003.

Lived in home and then garage for couple of year.

Met new husband that she has 2 kids and then moved out which is 7 yrs.

Worked at the clinic 10 yrs.

What I don't  understand is why she still at the house unless she has the right to lived there because they owned it together.  What about her family, sibling, etc.  she was grant custody of the 5 kids  in 2004 so might as well get out and then tried to sell the house but he was preventing the sale of it. 

Most people don't like to pay child support.  There is pros and cons. 

The guy funeral is this weekend.  I might stop by as I know some of the Moua..... 

[lost_forever]

Why fight for the house when you're not even legally married..too much hassle.  She may have the right to still live there, however if the ex husband already remarried...it s pointless to live together for the sake of the kids.  I would have moved far far away. 

  Keep us updated.

[SumTingWong]

Make no mistake about it, the Hmong are a very resourceful people and perhaps it is this resourcefulnes s that will be our downfall as well. In every situation, where we have encountered a new race, a different culture or a new nation. We have not only adapted but have thrive, in most cases, only in a few generations.

Migrating to the US has been no different... here, we have thrive, living in all 50 states, having and raising children and our children having and raising the next generation of Hmongs. The main difference is that here in the US, Money and the pursue of wealth, has taken a front seat to everything else we hold true as Hmong values. Sure, we have seen this in the past, but it is nothing on a scale of this magnitude. Here, Money is the way and the only way... perhaps a trait we adapted from capitalism.

For anyone to see my point... let me give an example.

The Bride Price as practice from the old days, was meant to compensate the mother and father of the bride. Money given in exchange for the void and burden of losing a daughter, a compensation to the parents for all those years of having to feed and raise the daughter and to some extend, the bride price serves as insurance that the marriage will last.

Traditionally, when a couple divorces... fault is usually assigned, whether fair or just is another debate... But non the less, fault is assigned to the best of our ability and the assets of the marriage are divided accordingly.

The death of this man and this women, tragic as it may seem, could have been avoided. We stand at a cross roads, my Hmong people. This culture and the standards of this country are too strict for us to have it both ways... both Hmong values and American standards.

You either say only marriages that fall within lines of US standards are acceptable... by this I mean, be of legal age, non related, and there is no bride price. Or you say, fine you can married at 12, be related, and bride price must be paid... but when you divorce you cannot and must not involve the courts. Sounds extreme? Right... but that's how it has to be.

Don't just involve the rules and laws of this country when it suits you or only when you can benefit from it.

[Envy2]

Separated in 2003.

Lived in home and then garage for couple of year.

Met new husband that she has 2 kids and then moved out which is 7 yrs.

Worked at the clinic 10 yrs.

What I don't  understand is why she still at the house unless she has the right to lived there because they owned it together.  What about her family, sibling, etc.  she was grant custody of the 5 kids  in 2004 so might as well get out and then tried to sell the house but he was preventing the sale of it. 

Most people don't like to pay child support.  There is pros and cons. 

The guy funeral is this weekend.  I might stop by as I know some of the Moua.....

Make sure to punch him in his casket for me!