DC vs. Marvel

[bulbasaur]

Did they change it again?  Maybe TV/Movies are separate now, or maybe that was a rumor to begin with.  I don't always follow the rumors. 

I think DC might make MoS the starting point in their universe.  Which means Nolan's Batman is non-canon.  If MoS is the starting point, then I am not sure how i feel about it.  MoS wasn't really that good. 

Completely forgot about Jonah Hex. But then I don't know much about him.

Which TV shows are canon and in the same shared universe as the movie?

IIRC. Arrow and flash aren't.  Haven't heard much word on Supergirl.  Izombie is something else.. Gotham, well that's a different pile of turd.

[LION HEART]

As someone who's read comics from both companies, I lean heavily towards Marvel.  One of the reasons why has to do with how people can relate to them.  I was an avid reader of X-Men in the 90s.  I identified with their struggle because of our people's own struggles with prejudice.  Sure both had powers but their struggles were different.


 

[bulbasaur]

DC and Marvel tell slightly different stories. 

Marvel (generally speaking) likes to focus on humanity while making very strong parallels with today's issues.  For example, the entire relationship between Beast and his "human" girlfriend at the time.  That was clearly a jab at the gay marriage debate. 

DC will tell stories that are on the cosmic/mythical level.  Timelines falling apart.  Time travel.  Alternate Earths.  Space.  Aliens invasions.  One super team vs. another super team. 

That being said, both DC and Marvel have their versions of all these stories.  It just seems that each company tend to focus on one more than the other.  I like them both equally. 

As someone who's read comics from both companies, I lean heavily towards Marvel.  One of the reasons why has to do with how people can relate to them.  I was an avid reader of X-Men in the 90s.  I identified with their struggle because of our people's own struggles with prejudice.  Sure both had powers but their struggles were different.


 

[bulbasaur]

DC Cinematic is kinda messed up...which might actually work out for a good Crisis story.  However, I think DC is too dumb to figure that out. 

Yea I think so.

There were rumors about a separate flash film not canon with the series, with different stars.

Even Suicide Squad isn't going to be canon.  Rumors are: That's why Deadshot supposably died offscreen.  And Katana kind of had a weaker roll.  It's also rumored to be why the Harley cameo went nowhere.

MoS wasn't awesome.  But it wasn't terrible either.  It was slightly above average.. 

There's a wikipedia page about the DC shared universe and it does start with MoS. but its wikipedia so we take it with a grain of salt.

IMO.  Even though nolanverse was a good trilogy.  It'll be more challenging to fit it in the shared universe since he attempted to make everything so realistic, doesn't fit in any super powered friends and foes.

[chidorix0x]

And Krypton doesn't exist in Marvel, so it's not really a weakness Superman would have against Marvel.  Marvel isn't going to have any Kryptonite. 

It should be noted that MCU Thor isn't really that strong.  Thor looks like he is only just as strong as Iron Man and Captain America.  MoS Superman looks stronger.  However, MCU Hulk looks stronger than MoS Superman.  Talk about Hulk...

Which Hulk is even canon?  Avengers Hulk looks like a different Hulk from the movies.  And each Hulk movie looks like a different Hulk.  It's too inconsistent.

...  kekeke  ...   

"Magic" most definitely exist in the MU -- the likes of Thor, Hercules, Dr Strange, and Scarlet Witch etc..  And per DC, Superman is a weaksauce against "magic", easily overcomed and defeated by Shazam/Capt Marvel and Black Adam as already noted in an earlier comment/post.  DC fanboys/girls are/is clearly ignoring (and being ignorant of) this DC fact.  DOLT!  ...  KEKEKE  ...   

[bulbasaur]

...  kekeke  ...   

"Magic" most definitely exist in the MU -- the likes of Thor, Hercules, Dr Strange, and Scarlet Witch etc..  And per DC, Superman is a weaksauce against "magic", easily overcomed and defeated by Shazam/Capt Marvel and Black Adam as already noted in an earlier comment/post.  DC fanboys/girls are/is clearly ignoring (and being ignorant of) this DC fact.  DOLT!  ...  KEKEKE  ...   

[LION HEART]

Just to make a correction but X-Men and Fantastic Four film rights belong to Fox and not Sony.

Sony has the film rights to Spider-Man but now Disney and Sony are teaming up together like Disney and Universal to bring Spidey into the MCU (via Captain America 3: Civil War) like how they did The Hulk.

[bulbasaur]

I can't remember who owns all the rights anymore.  I just know they are separate.  The Spiderman movies haven't really been super awesome, so it is understandable that they would negotiate.  X-Men has been pretty good lately.  I am not sure if Fox is willing to give them up.  After all, Fox didn't give up Fantastic Four, and only the first FF was decent.  Talk about FF...

I hope the new one is good, but it seems unlikely.  Dr. Doom a blogger?  There is great source material, why do writers feel like they must put their own twist on it.  It seems like some pretentious writer/blogger who simply wanted to make Dr. Doom a blogger.  FF are heroes.  They should be in the MCU.  But, I'll hold off judgement...

Just to make a correction but X-Men and Fantastic Four film rights belong to Fox and not Sony.

Sony has the film rights to Spider-Man but now Disney and Sony are teaming up together like Disney and Universal to bring Spidey into the MCU (via Captain America 3: Civil War) like how they did The Hulk.

[bulbasaur]

This leads the question of which is the worst, X3, FF2, or Spidy3. 

I didn't hate FF1 as much as most people.  The "superhero-ness" of the plot was lacking, but I enjoyed seeing the characters interact.  It's just odd to see Captain America be Human Torch too.  That's like Ryan Reynolds.  He plays GL and Deadpool.  He could get away with it since those are two different universes.  However, he also plays Hannibal King in Blade.  Maybe Blade doesn't exist in the X-universe or the MCU, but he should.  That would be awesome.   

Xmen has been good overall. sure 3 wasn't great. but overall its still watchable compared to the likes of Fantastic four 2.
I wonder how much marvel would have to pay to buy back xmen, spiderman, and whatever else they don't own..

I'm sure if Disney wanted to, they could buy it all back. they are Disney after all.


The first 2 didn't set much of a Bar...  First one was decent, although the fight with doom was garbage. can't really call it a fight.

But we'll see.. It can't be much worse right?

[bulbasaur]

Blade is probably the reason why the MCU exists.  People seem to think that it was X1 that gave confidence to making big comic book movies (especially for Marvel), but it was actually Blade. 

Since the demise of the Superman and Batman franchises, studios didn't want to take on comic books anymore.  Blade came in 1998 and showed how awesome comic book movies could be if taken seriously.  Almost every comic book movie since has taken the approach of "What if they were real?" 

Before Blade, even TMNT were going downhill.  We had to settle with movies like Tank Girl, Mystery Men, Power Rangers, Steel, The Phantom. 

There were some good comic book movies around this time too.  The Crow, Spawn, Men In Black.  Talk about MiB, that movie probably deserves some credit along with Blade for boosting Marvel...even though MiB was really a Malibu comic. 

It was just the end that was meh to me.. "johnny go supernova" and that's about it.
could've been a longer and more interesting fight overall. didn't care much about the superheroness.

I would say. the other two made X3 look good in comparison.   Bit of a toss up.  I'm not sure which I'd choose.. emo peter or Galactus Cloud.

- most people probably didn't even know blade was marvel.

[bulbasaur]

Battle of the Suits

Iron Man vs. Steel vs. X-O Manowar vs. Lex Luthor vs. Dr. Doom vs. Samus vs. Megaman vs. Master Chief vs. Robocop vs. Terminator vs. Cyborg vs. Vision

Battle Royale of the mechanical suits.  Not sure if Terminator and Vision belong in the fight since there aren't any "human" parts. 

I am probably missing more suits.  I suppose we could always throw in Batman. 

[thenewbguy]

Are you talking sheer power or are you talking about stories/characters/development? Marvel is way more successful than DC these days.

If you're talking Cosmic beings Marvel has a lot of very powerful ones like Galactus, Thanos, Apocalypse, Silver Surfer, Beyonder, Captain Marvel, Death...to name a few. There are more but they're not as well known as the DC ones.

DC has only a handful of characters I actually like or care about, Marvel has way more. However Batman will probably be one of my fav all time characters.

[thenewbguy]

I don't think we can go sheer power.  Otherwise anyone could just say Superman wins because well, superman is superman.  His powers are always different each time.

You make good points and I agree about the DC animated movies, they are decent to pretty good. I can't agree with you about the movies though as Marvel has made huge hits out of characters that weren't huge before like Iron Man. DC has yet to find a good way to make their characters more appealing to audiences, they failed with their Superman remakes. The only good franchise movie DC has had in the past 10 years was Nolan's Batman trilogy.

To me Marvel characters are just more appealing as a whole over the DC ones.

Superman is weak against magic and has been beaten many times, I believe Shazam can beat him.

[thenewbguy]

I liked MoS.
Dark Knight Rises... meh. I didn't really like it.   It was good.  But maybe its cause Bane wasn't really bane.  He just felt too watered down.

They should try to not be all dark and realistic with some characters.  Let them flesh out like in the comics.  I want to see Bane with his venom tank.  Not the one nolan gave us.  I liked it for it's script, not for it's realistic take.

IDK, MoS did not feel like a Superman movie to me. It felt like a Batman movie, starring Superman.

I also didn't like the last installment of Nolan's Batman series but it was better to me than MoS. MoS felt like it was a moody indie drama then went to Dragonball level craziness. Also Superman killing someone, not what I'm used to and not what Superman would do. I appreciate different takes on characters but this one felt like, oh Batman was successful cause it was dark and gritty, let's also make Superman dark and gritty.

The TV shows blow to me, they are all just "ok" and nothing special besides the fact that some minor characters I like pop up now and again. I though Daredevil on Netflix was the best and it was still just ok to me.

[thenewbguy]

to me MoS kind of shows the difference between Batman and Superman.
While both will do whatever it takes to save others.  Batman will do his absolute best to not kill anyone regardless of what they do, while superman if he has to, will kill.

The dark and gritty was a bit annoying.  Yea I agree there.  And BVS feels like a batman movie too.  Not really a superman movie.  maybe thats where they think the money is at.  the darker take on heroes.  But really it is kind of hit or miss.   I say, it works with batman because he's a flawed human being with alot of mental issues.  There's no denying he still suffers from grief over his parents death, he may have a split personality or just multiple personality,  and he very much does have a hero complex. Superman on the otherhand,  you could almost name the same things.  But it doesn't go too much into detail about this stuff.  So he's kind of just there.

Well DD benefits from Netflix.  So it doesn't have to be toned down for regular television channels.  so there's that. It helps that they can introduce alot of violence and go all batshit crazy.

Arrow season 2 and flash season 1 are the better seasons to watch.   


I'm hoping Legends of Tomorrow is good.  It looks promising as an action series. story wise, it's kind of eh from the trailer.

Back in my day I was a huge comics fanboy, the only one I knew of. lol

To me Superman also isn't supposed to kill, it's cemented in the mythology of Superman. They picked the right guy to be Superman, they just picked the wrong director/storyline.

I never got into the Flash or Green Arrow because I was never a fan of their characters, they were just side characters to more exciting ones like Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. I gave Green Arrow a shot but it was just OK, I know it's TV and they have to cut some stuff out but he went from chump to hero too quickly.

The Flash I've only seen a few episodes of, I might give it a shot but as of now I have very little time to watch anything these days.