The Bride Price...Again

[bulbasaur]

Alrighty, let's beat this dead horse....

I am not really against or for the bride price.  If people want to or not want to practice it, then whatever.  However, I heard some poor arguments recently. 

1.  The bride price is slavery.  Well, no.  Most of the time (in the States anyways), the bride and groom really do want to marry each other.  Pre-arranged marriage is really going away among Hmong Americans. 

2.  The bride price leads to domestic violence.  Well, no.  Those are two very separate events.  There are lots of people who practiced the bride price, and they are not domestically violent.  People might point to that a high number of Hmong people who are in domestic violence also practiced the bride price.  However, that is a skewed statistic.  There is no causality factor.  You might as well say eating rice leads to domestic violence.  Or, living in urban areas lead to domestic violence. 

3.  The bride price leads to adultery.  Well, no.  Again, same reasons as 2.

More as they come....

[nightrider]

Whatever these smart educated women or men like to believe. If having a price on your head is demeaning, slavery, leads to domestic violence, abuse, and or death - people these days have many options to choose from, they can go white/black/brown for all I care. Spousal problems is no stranger to all race of people. But when one thinks of their own systems as being worthless or pointless, they're just a piece of sh1+. I'm sure we all know of someone marrying out, some good life they have right? Life is just as fuk up or far worst. There's nothing more to it...

As far as the cap goes, I say it's a joke. If you can't fork 5k, 10k, 20k, or even getting down on your knees because of your religion... You're simply not a man but a piece of turd. & yes, women, y'all better be worth the price too. If you're going to demand this so called 50/50, be a nagging bitc#, and be disgraceful to your family, you're not even worth a dime either.lol The brides family, I believe this dowry was supposed to be some sort of insurance money but why eat it? You already eat meat, drink wine/beer, and etc... Least you can do is hold the dowry for safe keeping, besides you'd gained plenty of benefits from the groom. That's probably more than make up for the labor of bring up an outstanding trophy wife.

Bride price, even today I still hear people who wants to get marry but can't fork a mere 5k. That's just ridiculous... That means such people are turds. turd people including the so called educated just don't f-ing get it. We have a system for a reason so turds can't make more turds or create more problems they can't take care of.  BE RESPONSIBLE DAMNIT!

And women, your mex/white/black fiance needs to fork it up and get down on his f-ing knees like he meaning. Don't be covering for that sob-making it seem like he honors the family, you'll regret it later when they're done with you.

Ok. Enough ranting in this genre...

[Hung_Low]

I don't care about the dowry... but some family demand boat load of cash for their daughter because she's got a degree. That's BS...

What I hate is when the family demand dowry from other Hmong family but says sh1t when it's other race.

[nightrider]

That's why men need to beat their wifes.lol
Because they pay sh!+ load of money.

[lexicon]

My personal experience was definitely different from what I had always heard. My parents drilled into the men in our family that we needed to start saving money as soon as we started working, for our future wives. We've heard how families in CA were asking for 10K on average and close to 30K for their college educated daughters. Considering couples were getting married young at this time and young in general, you're looking at having that amount of money set aside in your late teens or early twenties. Who among us can say they did?

All things considered, I do believe we're left with a few bad examples, hearsay and a lot of generalization . In the end, it's the parents who set the precedence. Some defer to their children, some stand by tradition, some adhere to the guidelines of the Hmong 18 Clan Council and others just don't see the bride price as something to potentially have a wedding hinge upon. And yes, even some few parents do treat their daughters as a commodity, a means to financial gain.

I'm not sure where all this discrimination and negativity is coming from? This is one of those experiences in Life where where the perspective as a participant is totally different than from the perspective as an observer or bystander.

[bulbasaur]

4.  The bride price lets parents choose the groom, and it allows parents to treat their daughters  like assets.  Well, no.  There are some insane stories where the price is ridiculous, but it's not really the norm.  The bride's parent do indeed set the bride price, but that price is negotiable.  There's a process for it.  And before people complain and say that the groom has no room to negotiate, he actually does.  In fact, the groom has the biggest bargaining chip: he has the girl. 

Some people think this entire process is tedious and should be abandoned, but there is some merit to it all.  It forces families to come together and work together.  People really remember how every single person helped out.  They can name each and every person and what their role was.  Unlike a "western" wedding, a person may not know what anyone did during the wedding.  People came, had a good time, and dropped off a gift,  but you may not remember what they did. 

If you don't like the practice, that's fine.  Don't do it.  But if you do, that's cool too.  You should do what is best for you.  Just don't assume that what is best for you is best for everyone. 

[lexicon]

$$$ = CLASS, NO

However...

$$$ = CLASS, sometimes.

Real World 5hit.

[Giggles_Shyly]

This topic has been blown out and now it's reached an all time high class of, "I don't really care how much the bride price/dowry is set at", a life together happily is all that matters. Life has no guarantees nor does it have a mapped out structure of how things will come to be.

I believe in the flat rate LOL regardless of education or back ground.

[lexicon]

Newlywed Couple: We don't want to start this chapter of our lives already in debt.

Parents: Let's not place unnecessary burden upon our kids by demanding so much from our new son/daughter in law.

That's how I remembered it anyways. I consider myself fortunate enough that through marriage I've had the chance to have more than one pair of caring parents. I refer to my in-laws as mom and dad and in return I'm just like another son to them. So maybe my views are a little biased.

[zena]

I can't believe this is even an argument, a debate.  We are free to marry who we love, guys.  FREE.  There should never be any other kind of offerings from family or anyone else.  It should be pure.  Two hearts.  Two lives intertwined.  Nothing else.

My daughters will marry whom they love.  Not the guy who can cough up the most money.  Pathetic. Dirty slave money coated with fake respect. Ugh.

[bulbasaur]

Who said you weren't free to marry whomever? 

I can't believe this is even an argument, a debate.  We are free to marry who we love, guys.  FREE.  There should never be any other kind of offerings from family or anyone else.  It should be pure.  Two hearts.  Two lives intertwined.  Nothing else.

My daughters will marry whom they love.  Not the guy who can cough up the most money.  Pathetic. Dirty slave money coated with fake respect. Ugh.

[bulbasaur]

5.  The girl has to marry whomever coughs up the highest bride price.  Well, no.  People who think this are neglecting all the other events leading up to this point.  The bride price does not equate to a prearranged marriage.   

[zena]

I pay for every thing.  For all kinds of people services.  It's natural for me to see that paying for a bride is wrong because if she doesn't live up to the price, then we know what will happen.  Just like if I paid for something and the service wasn't up to what I paid, you bet I will get my money's worth or get a refund. 

Imagine two girls at a gathering about how much each was worth.

Girl one: So, how much did your husband pay for you?

Girl Two:  He paid $5,000.

Girl one:  That's it?  Don't you have a bachelor's degree?

Girl Two: MD, but I'm not using it so his family didn't include it in the price.

Girl one: Oh...

Girl Two: How much did yours pay for you?

Girl one: $20K.

Girl Two: Wow.  What does that include?

Girl one: I work in my field of study.

Girl Two: What do you do?

Girl one: I'm a first grade teacher.  Why aren't you using your degree?

Girl Two: I was a surgeon but my father got ill and I was the only who could care for him so I had to quit.

Girl Three walks into the convo: Hi girls!

Girl one: Out of curiosity, did your husband pay a bride price for you?

Girl Three: Why would he do that?

Girl one: That's what Hmong families are supposed to do out of respect for the family and the culture.

Girl Three: Respect shouldn't cost a dime.  Respect is earned, not paid for.

 

All silliness aside.  No matter which way you look at it, a bride price is wrong.  Truly, if you can't see that it is a form of slavery, then you are blind.  I get that a lot families choose to pretend that it's not slavery.  Those families didn't learn about what slavery is and what it does to people.  Why do you think we ended slavery in the U.S?  I know there are still slavery countries out there.  That's fine. They allow it, but not here.  This is not the country to do that and if you do it, you are doing it under cover.  Sure, there are women who want to be a slave to her husband.  That's fine, but only if she chooses.  Families are still teaching their daughters to live up to the man and that is so wrong.  Let your daughters think for themselves.  Let them find love on there own without this bride price looming over them.  Let your sons find love on their own without the stress of having to save up for the perfect girl his parents will love.  There are other countries out there who are bounded by strict cultures...and that's okay because that's them.  They are not free to think or feel the spectrum of love out there.  We are in this country.  We should utilize it.  It's a form of advancement.  Don't bound yourself to primitive rules that will only limit you in your greatness.

[bulbasaur]

You are simply incorrect.  Mormons are Christians.  Baptists actually do read the OT.  And now, this. 

1.  Imaginary conversations do not prove anything.  I can rewrite the entire conversation and make it pro bride price.  The worst part about your imaginary conversation is that it doesn't even prove your point.

2.  Please explain how bride price equates to slavery.  Black people would love to hear it. 

3.  You wrote and ask, "Those families didn't learn about what slavery is and what it does to people.  Why do you think we ended slavery in the U.S"  Unfortunately for you, history is not on your side.  The large majority of Americans during slavery did not practice the bride price. 

4.  You wrote, "I know there are still slavery countries out there.  That's fine."  Wait, what?  No, it is not fine.  Also, why are you totally fine with slavery in other countries, but you get all bent out of shape over the bride price?  That makes no sense. 

5.  You wrote, " Families are still teaching their daughters to live up to the man and that is so wrong."  That has nothing to do with the bride price. 

6.  You wrote, "Let your daughters think for themselves.  Let them find love on there own without this bride price looming over them.  Let your sons find love on their own without the stress of having to save up for the perfect girl his parents will love."  That's great.  It's a good thing the bride price does not restrict any of those things. 

7. You wrote, "Don't bound yourself to primitive rules that will only limit you in your greatness."  That's great.  It's a good thing the bride price does not restrict that either.  BTW, can we get a look at your wedding ring?  How much did that cost?

I pay for every thing.  For all kinds of people services.  It's natural for me to see that paying for a bride is wrong because if she doesn't live up to the price, then we know what will happen.  Just like if I paid for something and the service wasn't up to what I paid, you bet I will get my money's worth or get a refund. 

Imagine two girls at a gathering about how much each was worth.

Girl one: So, how much did your husband pay for you?

Girl Two:  He paid $5,000.

Girl one:  That's it?  Don't you have a bachelor's degree?

Girl Two: MD, but I'm not using it so his family didn't include it in the price.

Girl one: Oh...

Girl Two: How much did yours pay for you?

Girl one: $20K.

Girl Two: Wow.  What does that include?

Girl one: I work in my field of study.

Girl Two: What do you do?

Girl one: I'm a first grade teacher.  Why aren't you using your degree?

Girl Two: I was a surgeon but my father got ill and I was the only who could care for him so I had to quit.

Girl Three walks into the convo: Hi girls!

Girl one: Out of curiosity, did your husband pay a bride price for you?

Girl Three: Why would he do that?

Girl one: That's what Hmong families are supposed to do out of respect for the family and the culture.

Girl Three: Respect shouldn't cost a dime.  Respect is earned, not paid for.

 

All silliness aside.  No matter which way you look at it, a bride price is wrong.  Truly, if you can't see that it is a form of slavery, then you are blind.  I get that a lot families choose to pretend that it's not slavery.  Those families didn't learn about what slavery is and what it does to people.  Why do you think we ended slavery in the U.S?  I know there are still slavery countries out there.  That's fine. They allow it, but not here.  This is not the country to do that and if you do it, you are doing it under cover.  Sure, there are women who want to be a slave to her husband.  That's fine, but only if she chooses.  Families are still teaching their daughters to live up to the man and that is so wrong.  Let your daughters think for themselves.  Let them find love on there own without this bride price looming over them.  Let your sons find love on their own without the stress of having to save up for the perfect girl his parents will love.  There are other countries out there who are bounded by strict cultures...and that's okay because that's them.  They are not free to think or feel the spectrum of love out there.  We are in this country.  We should utilize it.  It's a form of advancement.  Don't bound yourself to primitive rules that will only limit you in your greatness.

[zena]

Interesting.  No good rebuttals, so this means, I'm glad you agree. 

As for the wedding band, I was the breadwinner at the time so I paid for husband's and mine.  I also paid for my wedding ring but had to sell it when times got tough.  On our 10th wedding anniversary, husband got me a new 3-stone ring to remember that we made it past the 10th mark.  He marked the moment with a new watch for himself that cost a little more than my ring.  I didn't go with something expensive. I went simple because I wanted to just remember that we worked hard and we worked together to be where we're at today.

I'm not the materialistic person you might think I am.