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Author Topic: Trust or Love?  (Read 6862 times)

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Offline w1s3m0n

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Re: Trust or Love?
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2018, 04:34:11 AM »
people in loving relationships take each other for granted

 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o  Is that really love?  Is that why we have 50% divorce rate?  My personal quest to understand more about love is precisely that point.  I feel EXACTLY that way and it bothers me.  Am I really love because of my utility?  What happens when I have no utility?  Is there still love?  So why not just call it utility?

I've been reading stoic philosophy for some reason.  Seneca  and Augustus.


« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 04:46:51 AM by w1s3m0n »

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Offline Hung_Low

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Re: Trust or Love?
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2018, 04:41:39 PM »
Trust is more important than love... if you don't have trust, you don't have love.



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Offline w1s3m0n

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Re: Trust or Love?
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2018, 11:54:52 PM »
I'm not a fan of Freud, but he did influence other scholars. Read Freud and his once hopeful student Carl Jung. Their are many credible early childhood models. The two that I subscribe to are Maslow and Erikson. Good luck.

The premise of your example with mother and child is flawed. That argument is a fallacy. By the way, most of the entertaining arguments in PH can be categorized into specific types of fallacy. Google fallacy, then read some of the heated discussions here; and you will find fallacies in their discord. Once you understand that, the humor will enlighten you. Have fun.

In behavioral management, and as a people manager, I apply Maslow and Erickson day to day.  I do this downward, laterally, and upward.  I find their work to be very practical in understanding normal people needs and wants, and in anticipating what/how to manage people to build trust, engagement.  Modern management style tend to use theory Y management style...inspir e people vs theoryX management style...be skeptical of people and use (utility) people as an means to an end of production/profits.  Everything I practice here is all about utility of production and profits through the manipulating human emotion to achieve the highest level of performance in people.  They call this leadership.  All these relationship are highly based upon trust.  I trust my employees will do a good job, and they trust me I will give them good raises and promotion.  This is what a transactional process is - I do A for B.  I put my $$ in the bank, and they give me 1% APR.

In your model of love, you have said love is on the apex and there are scaffolding and that scaffolding is the pyramid, Maslow and Erickson.  In addition, in your view on loving relationship, a loving relationship can be people taking each other for granted.  For sure you are very much a utilitarian on the concept of love.  I'm not.  I think love is sacred and you don't.  Your form of love might be eros and phileo...I try to seek forms of love that are unconditional, agape.  Everything else, I don't consider love.  My natural state is to serve and give so I don't really do the eros and phileo...in those cases it's friendship...i t's trusting.

In my world view, I see love above trust because love is sacred.  Love brings warmth.  Trust can be manipulating and cold because trust is often negotiated: I do X for Y.  Trust dies when it is not reciprocated.  Love doesn't die, it endures.  Don't believe me.  Test it.  Anyone who requires constant negotiating in I do X for Y, is not a loving relationship, it is a trusting relationship.  For example, in the Hmong culture, we talk about love as an exchange of energy and time.  That's not love.  That's trust.  Perhaps it is why many Hmong people see trust as higher because that's what we care most about.

In Brene Brown work on the anatomy of Trust she talks about BRAVING (boundaries, reliability, accountability, vault, integrity, non-judgement, generosity).  Nearly everything in the Hmong culture of love can be seen within this context.  Most relationship can be seen within this context.  The reality is, we have many, many trusting relationship, and we have VERY FEW loving relationship.  Some may HAVE NONE.  It is why the great Roman Philosopher and Christian Apostile, St Paul wrote, 1 COR 13, EPH 5, and perhaps the most insightful point on love by this great philosopher/apostle is the following:

1 COR 13:2 "If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing."  I argue most people fall into the latter categories...t heir love is not authentic in the romantic definition.  When you have nothing to give, you will know if they love you. 


« Last Edit: February 18, 2018, 12:05:44 AM by w1s3m0n »

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Offline thePoster

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Re: Trust or Love?
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2018, 03:12:47 PM »
saying I trust you is the same as saying I love you..

if you ever tell someone you love you don't trust them no more... there's no love no more..

if you love someone you don't doubt your trust in them..

if you trust someone you don't doubt your love for them..

In my opinion, you can't have one without the other...



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I went through all 15k posts and those 2 quotes I found were the only ones so I guess that would make it "everytime".  Feel free to go through all 15k posts and verify by quoting them all.  You need to quote them all to verifying prove "everytime".   Please verify that Im wrong.

Offline w1s3m0n

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Re: Trust or Love?
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2018, 12:47:33 PM »
The topic here is really about how you order your life and not so much about what is right for everyone.  There is no right/wrong way to order your life.  We see a lot of people order their life through trust because they need that sense of reliability.  That's great because we all need a sense of security and reliability.  High trusting relationship will do that.  I'll just say this about love...love is sacred and when you find a sacred relationship you'll know.  Penguin love.



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Offline dogmai

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Re: Trust or Love?
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2018, 11:07:38 AM »
A LOVING and COMPASSIONATE WORLD
A child was in the pathway of a semi-truck.  A stranger saw the child will be killed in a tragic accident.  There was only enough time to choose between the child or the person.  The person ran across the street and pushes the child forward and the semi-truck hits him.  Lying in a pool of blood, a stranger asked, why did you save this child at the cost of yours?  The stranger replied, I'm old, and I've lived a good life...This child deserves to experience a good life.

A TRUSTING WORLD
A child was in the pathway of a semi-truck.  A stranger saw the child will be killed in a tragic accident.  There was only enough time to choose between the child or the person.  The person/people watch in horror as the truck runs over the child.  Nobody saved this child.

Of the two stories, what is inspiring to you?

Those two scenarios have nothing to do with love or trust.



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Offline w1s3m0n

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Re: Trust or Love?
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2018, 01:07:19 AM »
Those two scenarios have nothing to do with love or trust.

Elaborate.



« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 08:01:42 AM by tRouBLe »

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Offline dogmai

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Re: Trust or Love?
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2018, 02:52:36 PM »
Elaborate.

1st scenario doesn't indicate that the man saved the child because of love.

2nd scenario  doesn't indicate that nobody saved the child because of trust.



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Online Visualmon

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Re: Trust or Love?
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2018, 07:15:08 PM »
In the beginning:
1. trusting too much
2. lusting and caring so much

The aftermath:
1. betrayed by the ppl
2. lost interest and repeat in endless cycle



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