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Author Topic: Is Jesus God?  (Read 7261 times)

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Yengimer

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Is Jesus God?
« on: April 29, 2018, 12:50:07 PM »
How do you guys understand this? Let me know what you believe and I will later give my thoughts about it.




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Online Visualmon

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Re: Is Jesus God?
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2018, 03:10:55 AM »
Didn't John the Baptist blurt it out to the sinners at the Jordan river when he announced that Jesus was the one who can bless anyone with the holy spirit and fire (weapon against demons/zeal to God), filter out the inequities with a winnow (pitchfork), and rescue anyone from pain/sorrow and condemnation from his father's wrath?




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Re: Is Jesus God?
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2018, 11:38:10 AM »
The answer give clues from the old testament but if you want to refute, go the Jewish doctrine route. 

Funny how the atheist don't go the atheist route but crop the route of the Jewish and ride with it.   



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Yengimer

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Re: Is Jesus God?
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2018, 04:06:48 PM »
Didn't John the Baptist blurt it out to the sinners at the Jordan river when he announced that Jesus was the one who can bless anyone with the holy spirit and fire (weapon against demons/zeal to God), filter out the inequities with a winnow (pitchfork), and rescue anyone from pain/sorrow and condemnation from his father's wrath?



From what I remember, John the Baptist said "Behold the Lamb of God..."

The Jehovah Witnesses will say that Jesus been given all authority by the Father. So everything Jesus does it's because He didn't do it by Himself. It was the Father who gave Him the power. So just because Jesus did these things, it still doesn't mean Jesus is God. So how can we refute this?



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Yengimer

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Re: Is Jesus God?
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2018, 04:07:42 PM »
The answer give clues from the old testament but if you want to refute, go the Jewish doctrine route. 

Funny how the atheist don't go the atheist route but crop the route of the Jewish and ride with it.

Even the Muslims are now using the Jehovah Witnesses arguments.



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Online Visualmon

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Re: Is Jesus God?
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2018, 08:54:09 PM »
From what I remember, John the Baptist said "Behold the Lamb of God..."

The Jehovah Witnesses will say that Jesus been given all authority by the Father. So everything Jesus does it's because He didn't do it by Himself. It was the Father who gave Him the power. So just because Jesus did these things, it still doesn't mean Jesus is God. So how can we refute this?

Well, that's their knowledge, not according to what Jesus had said to his disciples. JWs are crappy and full of contradictions . One time they try to convince me that there's no Jesus except his father. If there's no Jesus what's the point of preaching Jesus's name from the New World Translation whenever they go doors to doors in people's homes. That's doesn't makes sense.  :2funny:

There were more contradictions from their mouth:
1. They said when we die, we're going back to the ground where we were once created and we ought to stay under the ground until God give us purgatory. There's no Kingdom up there in Heaven but we gonna stay here on earth and God will grant us new life and everyone from the dead will be resurrected.
Hum, that ain't salvation. It's more like God serving us other than other way around where we were suppose to serve him.
2. God communicate with us in words from the bible as it teaches us fundamental things about how God works mysterious ways. Whenever we dreams about something important, the devil is tempting us. How come an Angel talk to Mary (Jesus's biological mother) and God talks to Joseph in his sleep? How come Jacob's son Joseph receive the gift of dream to his family and the Pharaoh?


« Last Edit: May 05, 2018, 08:56:20 PM by Visualmon »

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Yengimer

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Re: Is Jesus God?
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2018, 09:05:10 AM »
Well, that's their knowledge, not according to what Jesus had said to his disciples. JWs are crappy and full of contradictions . One time they try to convince me that there's no Jesus except his father. If there's no Jesus what's the point of preaching Jesus's name from the New World Translation whenever they go doors to doors in people's homes. That's doesn't makes sense.  :2funny:

There were more contradictions from their mouth:
1. They said when we die, we're going back to the ground where we were once created and we ought to stay under the ground until God give us purgatory. There's no Kingdom up there in Heaven but we gonna stay here on earth and God will grant us new life and everyone from the dead will be resurrected.
Hum, that ain't salvation. It's more like God serving us other than other way around where we were suppose to serve him.
2. God communicate with us in words from the bible as it teaches us fundamental things about how God works mysterious ways. Whenever we dreams about something important, the devil is tempting us. How come an Angel talk to Mary (Jesus's biological mother) and God talks to Joseph in his sleep? How come Jacob's son Joseph receive the gift of dream to his family and the Pharaoh?

The Jehovah Witnesses believe they are the 144,000.  They will rule with Jehovah in His earthy kingdom.

They don't believe in Hell as we Christians understood it, they believe when one dies he is annihilated.

Jesus is Michael the Arch Angel before His incarnation, and He didn't bodily resurrected either, God actually recreated Michael the Arch Angel again. Jesus is not Jesus in heaven right now. He is Michael.



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Offline DuMa

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Re: Is Jesus God?
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2018, 04:40:39 PM »
Matthew 16:13-20

Jesus asked Simon Peter who he was.  He said you are the Messiah, son of the living god. 

No flesh on Earth told him that but his father in heaven.  Because of that, Peter is known by the Roman Catholic church as the first pope and the key holder to heaven.  What he binds on Earth, heaven will also binds. 

Jesus also tells his disciples no to tell anyone that he is the Messiah. 



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Online Visualmon

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Re: Is Jesus God?
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2018, 05:09:53 PM »
Matthew 16:13-20

Jesus asked Simon Peter who he was.  He said you are the Messiah, son of the living god. 

No flesh on Earth told him that but his father in heaven.  Because of that, Peter is known by the Roman Catholic church as the first pope and the key holder to heaven.  What he binds on Earth, heaven will also binds. 

Jesus also tells his disciples no to tell anyone that he is the Messiah.

 O0 O0



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Online Visualmon

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Re: Is Jesus God?
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2018, 05:27:34 PM »
The Jehovah Witnesses believe they are the 144,000.  They will rule with Jehovah in His earthy kingdom.

They don't believe in Hell as we Christians understood it, they believe when one dies he is annihilated.

Jesus is Michael the Arch Angel before His incarnation, and He didn't bodily resurrected either, God actually recreated Michael the Arch Angel again. Jesus is not Jesus in heaven right now. He is Michael.

Please dude, stop  ;D. No more ideas from their theology. Their belief are giving me migraine.



This is why I hop on the magic carpet and flew the hell out of there. That's because I receive a sign and a dream telling me to get away from them or else I'll end up having a curse of 666 on my forehead. When I die, I'll be among them vomit out of God's mouth when he reveal our inequity for mocking him. Good thing I haven't been baptized in water at their kingdom hall. Before I went into their congregation, I receive a dream about being baptized in water and being exorcised by men like the speaker or a pastor will not lead to salvation. Only Jesus Christ can.



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Yengimer

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Re: Is Jesus God?
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2018, 05:55:19 PM »
Matthew 16:13-20

Jesus asked Simon Peter who he was.  He said you are the Messiah, son of the living god. 

No flesh on Earth told him that but his father in heaven.  Because of that, Peter is known by the Roman Catholic church as the first pope and the key holder to heaven.  What he binds on Earth, heaven will also binds. 

Jesus also tells his disciples no to tell anyone that he is the Messiah.

Messiah doesn't mean God. Messiah means God annointed king or priest.  David was both.



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Yengimer

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Re: Is Jesus God?
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2018, 05:57:37 PM »
Please dude, stop  ;D. No more ideas from their theology. Their belief are giving me migraine.



This is why I hop on the magic carpet and flew the hell out of there. That's because I receive a sign and a dream telling me to get away from them or else I'll end up having a curse of 666 on my forehead. When I die, I'll be among them vomit out of God's mouth when he reveal our inequity for mocking him. Good thing I haven't been baptized in water at their kingdom hall. Before I went into their congregation, I receive a dream about being baptized in water and being exorcised by men like the speaker or a pastor will not lead to salvation. Only Jesus Christ can.

 :2funny: Hey I'm just replying to what you said because I don't want to mispresent Jehovah Witness.

I try to be open and see it from all perspectives.



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Yengimer

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Re: Is Jesus God?
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2018, 07:37:16 PM »
There's a passage where Jesus claim to be God or equal to the Father and the Pharasee picked up stones to stoned Him.

Jesus answered them: "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are "gods"?

This is a quote from Psalms 82:6 "I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'

Does anybody have a clear explanation for this?

Also, when the Jews asked Jesus who He is, and they say "you are the son the David".

Mat 22:41  While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
Mat 22:42  "What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?" "The son of David," they replied.
Mat 22:43  He said to them, "How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him 'Lord'? For he says,
Mat 22:44  " 'The Lord said to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet." '
Mat 22:45  If then David calls him 'Lord,' how can he be his son?"
Mat 22:46  No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.

This quote comes from Psalm 110:1: "The LORD says to my lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."

My understanding is that David calls Jesus his master, not God. The word "Lord" means master.

What's your understanding of these two passages?

These are probably some of the passages that Jehovah Witness used.



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Offline DuMa

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Re: Is Jesus God?
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2018, 08:46:10 PM »
There's a passage where Jesus claim to be God or equal to the Father and the Pharasee picked up stones to stoned Him.

Jesus answered them: "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are "gods"?

This is a quote from Psalms 82:6 "I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'

Does anybody have a clear explanation for this?

Also, when the Jews asked Jesus who He is, and they say "you are the son the David".

Mat 22:41  While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
Mat 22:42  "What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?" "The son of David," they replied.
Mat 22:43  He said to them, "How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him 'Lord'? For he says,
Mat 22:44  " 'The Lord said to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet." '
Mat 22:45  If then David calls him 'Lord,' how can he be his son?"
Mat 22:46  No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.

This quote comes from Psalm 110:1: "The LORD says to my lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."

My understanding is that David calls Jesus his master, not God. The word "Lord" means master.

What's your understanding of these two passages?

These are probably some of the passages that Jehovah Witness used.

David is of the old testament and Jesus'Christ is of the new so David never saw Jesus however, David saw and declared that Jesus is his Lord or master. 

We only see the name Jesus Christ in the new testament as he took on human form as is correct that he came from the line of King David.  What the Jews were doing is declaring that the Messiah is a son of King David.  Jesus reminded them that how can it be if David himself called this Messiah his Lord or master?

The Jews are looking for an earthly guy while Jesus reminded them that he is also of the spirit.  If Jesus is god or Lord then he was already there from the beginning as in the beginning, there was the word and Jesus is also known as the word.  It just that he took on a different form and this is what the Jews are missing. 

They got stucked so they don't dare to test Jesus from that point on. 



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Yengimer

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Re: Is Jesus God?
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2018, 10:11:51 PM »
David is of the old testament and Jesus'Christ is of the new so David never saw Jesus however, David saw and declared that Jesus is his Lord or master. 

We only see the name Jesus Christ in the new testament as he took on human form as is correct that he came from the line of King David.  What the Jews were doing is declaring that the Messiah is a son of King David.  Jesus reminded them that how can it be if David himself called this Messiah his Lord or master?

The Jews are looking for an earthly guy while Jesus reminded them that he is also of the spirit.  If Jesus is god or Lord then he was already there from the beginning as in the beginning, there was the word and Jesus is also known as the word.  It just that he took on a different form and this is what the Jews are missing. 

They got stucked so they don't dare to test Jesus from that point on.

Good point. I think Jesus is the "son of David" while not physically descendant, but by his adopted father Joseph. Adoption still counts, and Joseph is descendant from King David.

I am still puzzled about Mary's genealogy though. Remember Jesus still has a blood line through her mother Mary. We're told she's Elizabeth's cousin who is from the tribe of Levi since her husband Zachariah is a priest and it's common for people to married their own tribe. If she and Mary are both cousins & she's from tribe of Levi, I'm assume Mary is also from the tribe of Levi?



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