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Author Topic: What are your thoughts on Hmong leaders today  (Read 6502 times)

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Offline Reporter

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Re: What are your thoughts on Hmong leaders today
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2018, 02:23:39 PM »
They've allowed women to have more rights. They are more on time now. Many are advocating against drinking and abuses.


Since you've worked with them before, what are the changes? Improvements from the past ones?



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Offline mind-teaser

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Re: What are your thoughts on Hmong leaders today
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2018, 02:56:18 PM »
I'm not talking about the Hmong leaders in the mainstream community but the ones for the Hmong community like the 18 clans, leaders of so and so hmong organization, etc..

There are two camps/definition when it comes to "hmoob Leaders" yog cov zoo licas? Here's what I know.  Yog koj nrog cov neeg laus tham, lawv hais tias hmoob leaders yog cov paub txog hmoob kab liag kev cai zoo zoo.  Cov no mas yog hmoob cov "LEADERS" tag nawb.  Vim lawv paub txog Hmoob culture zoo heev, lawv thiaj yuav PAB TAU HMOOB???  NOW if you ask people like me and those of my generation and younger....The ir perception of "hmoob Leaders" will be different.  Different in the perception that in order to be considered a "leader" This individual MUST be someone who had graduated from some form of HIGHER POST-SECONDARY education.  He/she MUST  be someone who is well versed in the Hmong community and the mainstream community in order to be considered worthy of being a "Hmong leader".   When you have two groups of people with conflicting perception of what a Hmong leader should be, we will have issue. 

MORE LATER...



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Offline Reporter

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Re: What are your thoughts on Hmong leaders today
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2018, 06:59:38 PM »
Ok. That's your opinion as requested by Dok.

a leader is naturally born and made...no voting system or self proclaiming... haha



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Offline w1s3m0n

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Re: What are your thoughts on Hmong leaders today
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2018, 09:09:27 PM »
Here is my opinion on Hmong Leaders and I would never want to do such a thankless job...I admire their noble ambitions and what they are trying to do.  I believe they do a good job advocating for Hmong interest with the government to support Hmong/Asian causes.  I believe they do a good job in organizing traditions and rituals such as new year, etc...  I believe they do a decent job in advocating and helping elders adapt.  What Hmong leaders cannot do because they don't have the resources are:
1) They cannot close the achievement gap because they don't understand the social science behind why Hmong kids are failing to catch up with their Asian peers.
2) They cannot close the equity gap because they don't understand the socio-economics conditions and they do not have the means to close the equity gap.
3) They cannot help entrepreneurs grow because they don't understand business management.

In order for the 18 clans to change, they need to change leadership.  The change in leadership will cause a paradigm shift in the mindset, thinking, etc... and then the people will shift.  What this means is business leaders and educational leaders in the Hmong community should step up, but most of them want none of the political or leadership burden.

NOTE: Having a PhD does not make you a leader...  It just means you work really hard to study a specific subject and you may be a subject matter expert.  Hmong people often confuse expert with leadership.  Leadership by definition is a servant who helps cause change in the system.  So pretty much anyone who dares to lead and be put under a microscope can become a leader.


« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 09:14:05 PM by w1s3m0n »

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Offline Mr_Mechanic

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Re: What are your thoughts on Hmong leaders today
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2018, 06:31:14 AM »
I know a few men that tries to be a leader........ .but can't even lead his household.



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Offline Dok_Champa

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Re: What are your thoughts on Hmong leaders today
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2018, 11:41:10 AM »
There are two camps/definition when it comes to "hmoob Leaders" yog cov zoo licas? Here's what I know.  Yog koj nrog cov neeg laus tham, lawv hais tias hmoob leaders yog cov paub txog hmoob kab liag kev cai zoo zoo.  Cov no mas yog hmoob cov "LEADERS" tag nawb.  Vim lawv paub txog Hmoob culture zoo heev, lawv thiaj yuav PAB TAU HMOOB???  NOW if you ask people like me and those of my generation and younger....The ir perception of "hmoob Leaders" will be different.  Different in the perception that in order to be considered a "leader" This individual MUST be someone who had graduated from some form of HIGHER POST-SECONDARY education.  He/she MUST  be someone who is well versed in the Hmong community and the mainstream community in order to be considered worthy of being a "Hmong leader".   When you have two groups of people with conflicting perception of what a Hmong leader should be, we will have issue. 

MORE LATER...
Ok, so in young people's mind, someone educated and well verse in the Hmong community and culture.  To me, what's important is someone w/a passion, a love for the Hmong people is the # 1 criteria and the other is wisdom/smart - knowing where to get/find resources to get the job done.  General Vang Pao has met both criteria.   
Here is my opinion on Hmong Leaders and I would never want to do such a thankless job...I admire their noble ambitions and what they are trying to do.  I believe they do a good job advocating for Hmong interest with the government to support Hmong/Asian causes.  I believe they do a good job in organizing traditions and rituals such as new year, etc...  I believe they do a decent job in advocating and helping elders adapt.  What Hmong leaders cannot do because they don't have the resources are:
1) They cannot close the achievement gap because they don't understand the social science behind why Hmong kids are failing to catch up with their Asian peers.
2) They cannot close the equity gap because they don't understand the socio-economics conditions and they do not have the means to close the equity gap.
3) They cannot help entrepreneurs grow because they don't understand business management.


In order for the 18 clans to change, they need to change leadership.  The change in leadership will cause a paradigm shift in the mindset, thinking, etc... and then the people will shift.  What this means is business leaders and educational leaders in the Hmong community should step up, but most of them want none of the political or leadership burden.

NOTE: Having a PhD does not make you a leader...  It just means you work really hard to study a specific subject and you may be a subject matter expert.  Hmong people often confuse expert with leadership.  Leadership by definition is a servant who helps cause change in the system.  So pretty much anyone who dares to lead and be put under a microscope can become a leader.
It's hard to do those items in bold when the hmong leaders, i.e from the 18 clan, are doing their job voluntarily w/o financial supports from the gov't or people to provide direct services.  But they can support and collaborate w/ social agencies/non-profit groups that already provided those services.   I think this is the route to go UNLESS they get funding which means they have to registered as a non-profit group and request for funding/grants/donations to run their programs, etc..

You bring up very good points.




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Offline Dok_Champa

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Re: What are your thoughts on Hmong leaders today
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2018, 11:52:22 AM »

-----
That aside.  The better question to ask. Do we need Hmong leaders?  What purpose do they serve? So what do they actually do to help out the community? Host and run the Hmong New Years?  That doesn't benefit the community too much .Yes it brings people together, but being Hmong and enjoying it as a festival tend to hide from all the nonsense, greed, drama, that it produces.

As I mentioned earlier, to be a leader, first and most important criteria you've got to have a love for your own people, a genuine desire to serve your people and when this foundation is in your heart and mind, no greed and less drama.


It's the same question I once asked the local Hmong student Organization. What benefit is it to be a part of your organization? A place for students to gather. Yea, that's great. But what is the purpose? Nothing really, other than bonding and an easier place to meet people.  There is nothing about teaching leadership, college survival, support system, giving back to the community, co-hosting events with other organizations. - and a sidenote, for a Hmong student organization, most of them cannot speak, read or write Hmong and are disrespectful students. It's nothing more than just a place for students to kick back and goof off.

Students sometimes don't know the value of a student org but their club advisors should be able to point them in the right direction.

I agree w/ you..women need to sit at the table because they have alot to contribute.



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Offline mind-teaser

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Re: What are your thoughts on Hmong leaders today
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2018, 01:27:15 PM »
DOK....koj puas tau MOB HLWB txaus? HAHA....yuav ua HMOOB ib tug thawm coj mas tsis yoojyim kiag nawb.   Kawg yawg hlob VP twb hlub Hmoob kawg, tseem muaj ib cov neeg siab phem heev rau nws.  Nes hnub nim no lawv tseem muaj ib cov neeg CEM yawg hlob kawg li thiab.  Kuv cia li  txaj muag rau Hmoon li lawm.



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Offline starchaser1989

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Re: What are your thoughts on Hmong leaders today
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2018, 03:01:53 PM »
They are just another person working a job to pay the bills, nothing more.



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Offline Dok_Champa

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Re: What are your thoughts on Hmong leaders today
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2018, 03:24:27 PM »
DOK....koj puas tau MOB HLWB txaus? HAHA....yuav ua HMOOB ib tug thawm coj mas tsis yoojyim kiag nawb.   Kawg yawg hlob VP twb hlub Hmoob kawg, tseem muaj ib cov neeg siab phem heev rau nws.  Nes hnub nim no lawv tseem muaj ib cov neeg CEM yawg hlob kawg li thiab.  Kuv cia li  txaj muag rau Hmoon li lawm.
Ua haujlwm rau hmoob yeej mob hlwb vim hmoob tsis kawm ces tsis paub thiaj lam cem tus ub tus no tabsis cov paub lawv understand kawg.  Ua tus coj yuav tau understand ua siab ntev...mob hlwb npaum cas los ua siab ntev.  Muaj tus cem los yeej muaj tus txawb.   AND tej niag haujlwm ua tus coj yog volunteer xwb os...  Yog tseem muaj tus xav ua tus coj, sawvdaws yuav tau UA TSAUG vim ntau leej ntau tus tsis xav volunteer lawv lub time and $$.



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Offline w1s3m0n

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Re: What are your thoughts on Hmong leaders today
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2018, 08:58:22 PM »
Ok, so in young people's mind, someone educated and well verse in the Hmong community and culture.  To me, what's important is someone w/a passion, a love for the Hmong people is the # 1 criteria and the other is wisdom/smart - knowing where to get/find resources to get the job done.  General Vang Pao has met both criteria.   

GVP was only effective in an authoritarian society.  Once in America where people have freedom and choice, GVP could not influence effectively and his leadership diminished.  His influence revived within the Hmong community after the FBI went after him.

It's hard to do those items in bold when the hmong leaders, i.e from the 18 clan, are doing their job voluntarily w/o financial supports from the gov't or people to provide direct services.  But they can support and collaborate w/ social agencies/non-profit groups that already provided those services.   I think this is the route to go UNLESS they get funding which means they have to registered as a non-profit group and request for funding/grants/donations to run their programs, etc..

You bring up very good points.

Don't take my writing seriously because I'm just sharing my thoughts with the community here.  These are the 3 topics that I think will transform the Hmong community, and yes, I understand it's incredibly hard and it's something that needs more discussion.  Most of the time people talk about bride price, traditions, conservation of culture and ritual, etc...  What we need to understand is time changes people, and rituals and tradition will change to embrace the change because the next generation those old values will diminish, and the next it will diminish more until it's no longer practice. 



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Offline Believe_N_Me

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Re: What are your thoughts on Hmong leaders today
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2018, 12:19:52 AM »
I have no issues with those involved in 18 Xeem and such. It seems to work for the older generation. And trust me, those younger people who think they're so tough and smart become weak and dumb when they find themselves in a bind.

Who else is there to clean up after their mess and handle their crap but their clan AND 18 Xeem in some cases.

Marriage, funeral, and hais plaub -----> I have never seen these same smart mouth youngens take the lead. They only know how to drink beer with their useless buddies.




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Offline nightrider

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Re: What are your thoughts on Hmong leaders today
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2018, 06:45:15 PM »
They are full of themselves, everyone of them only want to make a name for themselves by changing/adding customs that not all people want to accept. You can say that they're dysfunctional, very much like elected officials in DC.



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Offline dogmai

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Re: What are your thoughts on Hmong leaders today
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2018, 12:01:45 PM »
How are the leaders? Well..  Not great. Maybe you can point out some improvements, but at the same time there are dozens more flaws.

We already have enough talk about the whole New Year fiasco so no real reason to rehash that. 

Everything still runs on greed.  There's having a business mindset and wanting to make money. We all need money.  But greed is their main thing.  You can still make money meanwhile doing something great.  But with Hmong people, it's, "what's the easiest and cheapest way to make money now" aka get rick quick schemes.

A great leader needs to also be a great follower.  Can't say that there are many Hmong people who can follow, ego too big for their own good.

-
I had a talk with a Hmong student about a week ago regarding this topic.  He said he was invited to go to some Hmong presentation/discussion (something) where there will be several Hmong scholars coming together as a panel to discuss the Hmong community and how we can improve it.  He said it's being led by a Hmong guy who has a PHD or something like that.
I told him my exact thoughts about the community.  Thinking too small. get rich quick schemes. catering to only Hmong people.  Lack of resources and connections.  He asked why I wouldn't go and talk. I told him it seemed pointless. I asked if he knew the people who were on the panel or will be talking.  Not surprisingly they were reported to be all Hmong men.  And I explained to him that, that is the problem and why I won't be going.  The people talking should be a group of qualified leaders who have a goal or dream to want to support Hmong people.  Maybe these individuals do, but at the same time, we won't have much growth if we are plagued with the same issue as before which is not letting Women get a seat at the table.  Today, there are most likely more Hmong women than Hmong men who go onto a higher level of education and get the degrees.  And there are plenty who are active in the Hmong community beit doctors or whatnot.  So if Hmong women are not a part of this panel, I'd be interested in knowing why. If it's, no one responded, then well, who did they ask and why didn't they respond or why can't they make it? 
Conversation basically died there. But IMO that should be a major topic if they want to begin with talking about the Hmong community.  Higher Education.  Why do we have a piss poor graduation rate?  Why are there more Hmong women than men graduating from college these days? Education might not be the most important thing out there, but in America, it plays a great deal.

-----
That aside.  The better question to ask. Do we need Hmong leaders?  What purpose do they serve? So what do they actually do to help out the community? Host and run the Hmong New Years?  That doesn't benefit the community too much .Yes it brings people together, but being Hmong and enjoying it as a festival tend to hide from all the nonsense, greed, drama, that it produces.


It's the same question I once asked the local Hmong student Organization. What benefit is it to be a part of your organization? A place for students to gather. Yea, that's great. But what is the purpose? Nothing really, other than bonding and an easier place to meet people.  There is nothing about teaching leadership, college survival, support system, giving back to the community, co-hosting events with other organizations. - and a sidenote, for a Hmong student organization, most of them cannot speak, read or write Hmong and are disrespectful students. It's nothing more than just a place for students to kick back and goof off.

tidbit. there's actually 2 local Hmong organizations, and from what I saw, they barely engage together.  One is actually one I can get behind because they have a major event they host every year where they provide free health screenings (vision, hearing, blood pressure, etc.) and they also do it at the local Hmong New Year.  This kind of organization is a step in the right direction because it actually shows how it benefits the community, not just Hmong but the community as a whole.

You brought up a good point and also answered it. Why are there no women? One possible explanation is what you said. No women are willing to attend.



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Offline w1s3m0n

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Re: What are your thoughts on Hmong leaders today
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2018, 08:10:07 PM »
You brought up a good point and also answered it. Why are there no women? One possible explanation is what you said. No women are willing to attend.

NO way...  Honestly, women are not well accepted with the traditional Hmong Leadership circles.  It is why many highly capable Hmong Woman Leader lead outside the traditional leadership circles and into the nonprofit and for profit.  I think women have a lot of ideas to add just like men.



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