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Is playing morality immoral?

Yes, it's immoral
1 (33.3%)
No, it's not immoral
1 (33.3%)
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Offline dogmai

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Re: Is playing morality immoral?
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2018, 01:22:24 PM »
Then I take it where you allow evil to run around to do a lot of damage. Leave the strawman in the corn field and not use it in this discussion. And this is the part that you are not understanding. Your asserted conclusion shows the basis to your argument, ignorance, which is also the flaw in your proposed solution. With ignorance, you are the one who is actually allowing evil to roam around freely. We both proposed a solution to stop evil. Your way allows evil to take over humanity unknowingly and willfully due to no defence against it. As a result, the person who is consumed by evil end up as collateral damage. I on the other hand, proposed the solution of humanity being aware of what evil is and learning to see it in whatever shape it takes, and when confronted by it, has the means to defeat it. I deal with the cause of the problem and prevent it from the beginning. You, on the other hand wait for the symptoms to happen and only get rid of symptoms.   Congratulation, you just allowed the eternal crusade of good vs. evil where us normal people will die in the between the crossfire. We seeing evil creeping from a distance is a lot better than having evil already on your front door selling you things or worse, already sitting on the couch in your living room.  Maybe we might get sandwich from these two. If you think the Philippine island is doing wrong by just killing criminals, Their "war on drugs " policy has taken many lives but have the drug problem been solved? No. Have the drug trafficking been affected by the policy? No, drug prices are lower than ever.do you think Adolf Hitler deserves to die? If I had the power of time cloning, I will clone one billion of Adolf Hitler and perform a holocaust on those clones of Adolf Hitler to insult the evil community. Again, ignorance, had prevented you from seeing the many different forms of evil. The killer of Adolf Hitler had become Adolf Hitler without knowing it, and thats before  initiating the holocaust. If I am God in HIS shoes, I will create a universe without anyone except me. Also, I too, will agree to the accord of what the angels have said to God that we don't deserve to come into existence because of what we will become. Yet, HE F-EN DOES IT!According to biblical teachings, we did deserve to exist because we are better than the angels. Humanity has the will to face evil and ultimately defeat it. That's why the angels were jealous of us. Humanity can achieve what they cannot. Isn't the reason as to why Satan hated humanity because god created humanity starting with nothing but will become something greater and surpassing the angels to where humanity is able to sit by the side of god? To be confronted by evil and having the will to defeat it, is the ultimate victory. Choosing to be blind to evil, means that you have surrendered, and evil has already won.

By reading the entire Old Testament, I come to a conclusion that mankind don't deserve to be human until they are ready. If they can't, oh well--so be it.Preventing mankind from growing up and being prepared will result in them to never be ready. A blind man cannot reach the top of the hill if his attendant is leading him downhill. As I quote:

"Hitler and the Nazi did really think that they were saving the world by killing the jews , it wasn't just out of hate, but actually thinking that tbey are getting rid of evil people. Murder rate has gone up and the drug problem has gotten worse. Just because someone does it, doesn't mean that you should do the same"

Hitler was targeting Jews as a race; I target the rapist community, the murderer community, and every scumbag to be put in a concentration camp before burning them alive. How is this wrong? Because just like you, Hitler justified his actions and targeted an "evil" community, the Jews.  If the Punisher can kill a very bad-bad-bad guy and saved millions, why not? If after the Punisher kills millions and there are still millions of killers out there, how is that stopping evil? And of those millions, how many and which ones are first time offenders? And/or the ones who are not willing to murder again? When you start targeting and killing a particular community, you are no longer justified. Reason being, you are now killing a person not for what they did, but for what they are/were. A big time drug dealer is not the same as a curious kid trying a small amount of drug for the first time. It's injustice to kill both of them for possession of drugs thinking that they deserve the same punishment. 

Quote: "Ignorance is a major cause of it. People not knowing that what they are doing is bad. And/or People looking at it and turning away not seeing anything wrong with it."

It's not ignorance; it's "The Knowing." The more you know; the more you will be crazy. The less you know, the more you will be crazy, lacking the knowledge to understand why you are being crazy.  The more you know; the more you WISH you didn't know. The more you wish you didn't know, is the result of you fearing the truth.

Quote: " The only way to take responsibility is for people to know that what they did was wrong and how to correct it and prevent it from happening again in the future."

And how is that going for you? You seem to contain it; yet, don't change from it. Mankind cannot contain it because man doesn't want to. Some men likes to do bad because it's their taste to which I hate. And a lot of men do bad things because they don't realize that what they are doing is wrong. Dead men can't learn from their mistakes. My solution is to force them to BE good by straightening them out as if the good rapes the minds of evil to where unicorns and rainbows makes them want to puke. How is that wrong? Because I see double-standard in you. I offer my solution to solve evil and by doing that is to harm their minds by straightening them out. Actually, you have the double standard. Your argument is the one that forbids harm only when harm is being done to force someone into doing good. And there lies the problem again. Being forced to not do evil will not solve the problem itself. All it's doing is wash, rinse and wait until evil resurface in a
Recognizable form and repeat the process over. By staying ignorant of evil, not knowing how to recognize or having any means of preventing it results in the cycle repeating itself over and over again. 
It's like you force your son to get straight +As since he doesn't want to get an A in any of his classes because he prefers the F because he likes it. Well, a failure will be force live on a standard to where we can accept. And by forcing him to get A's, he will go back to
Getting F's again once the is no more authority figure, not understanding why one should strive to get A's instead of F's
Why do you think not many people respects the homeless? It's because of what they choose to become as their career in life. If I become a president, I will force every homeless to go and get a job, like it or not--OKAY DADDY, GEE!And by not understanding why having a job is good for them, they either refuse to get a job or get a job and be unsatisfied and return to their old ways.

Quote: "And That's why you are saying that your way is moral and his is immoral. Correcting his immoral nature."

I have never said He's immoral. Please, where did I say He's immoral and my literal words that comes from my mouth. I have said that He is He as I am I. You don't get that phrase, do you? We live on the same coin; however, I am on the other side of the coin. You see, the coin is morality. Morality can turn a man into a saint or an executioner.Morality is the coin, and a coin has either head or tail, moral or immoral. It's a contradiction to be both head and tails, moral and immoral at the same time. And by the way, this is what it means to have double standards, saying that something isn't immoral when it goes against what you believe to be moral simply to not make someone on your side not look as if they are not immoral. Well, I become an executioner because morality has turn me into that. Morality is a gun and most people don't see this as I do; No, morality is what determines our action to either pull the trigger or not. Saying that morality turned you into an executioner is considered as not taking responsibility for your actions and shifting the blame onto morality. You are responsible for your sense of morality and your actions are based on those moral beliefs. yet, I wish that I am not that too curious to read moral books from time to time since it's better than to be stupid and humble than to be smart and evil. Have you not seen Flowers for Algernon?
Not responding to criticism or remarks due to not realizing them does not mean that you are being humble.  Nor does being smart makes you evil. Having knowledge is what makes you choose to be humble. Charlie began as being ignorant and therefore didn't even realize that he was being mistreated. Evil was being done the whole time. Once Charlie's intelligence surface, he was mistreating others without realizing it. He was confronted by evil with no warnings and not knowing what to do, he willingly, unwillingly, or even perhaps mistakenly got consumed by evil. It's when found the knowledge to understand it, only then was he able to defeat evil. Having gain the knowledge, he took the responsibility of letting others know instead of letting them stay ignorant. That's when he determined what his sense of morality was. You are able to tell in the story when he came to recognize morality and chose to do the right choice.   


And that is what morality is.  It's not simply just about good and evil, but what is right and wrong. By not believing that murder is wrong even though you are not committing murder at this very moment, simply just waiting for the right moment, does not mean that you are a moral person. Simply waiting for the the day when you acknowledged that there is not god to finally commit murder makes you immoral.



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Offline dogmai

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Re: Is playing morality immoral?
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2018, 01:35:04 PM »
BTW, using a two headed coin means that you do not care about what is right or wrong as long as it suits you at the moment. In the Dark knight,  the black prisoner on the boat who threw the detonator out the window was more moral than Gotham's white knight. One has a clear understanding of what morality is, while the other on misunderstood it and used it as an excuse to do what he wants.



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Offline dogmai

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Re: Is playing morality immoral?
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2018, 10:25:19 PM »
Quote: "And a lot of men do bad things because they don't realize that what they are doing is wrong. Dead men can't learn from their mistakes"

UH...some men do and they don't give a fudge! I am talking about those people. The ones that don't will never do this because they have a conscience. Having a conscience means that you have some sort of moral code that you follow. They have a guilty conscience whenever they do/Did something that goes against their moral code. Some people might believe that murder is wrong but rape isn't. They still care about being right or wrong. So what happens then? The ones who throws conscience into the trash, find morality as insulting and racial discrimination TO their kinds of attitude, will purge whoever has conscience. Just look at Lucifer. He knows what he did is wrong; however, does he care? NO! This proves you wrong here. Because I am talking about the ones like these who throws conscience into the trash, steps on it, and calls it, "A total, righteous, virtuous ****." Some men likes being bad because you haven't seen one yet. I have. They don't care if they are wrong. Just look at the Japanese people who haven't apologize to China yet. Not apologizing does not mean that they care if they are wrong. There Can be other possible reasons for them not apologizing. Making claim without giving evidence doesn't validate your argument. At least America know what they did is wrong by mushroom bombing two cities in Japan.

You never answered my question from the other post. What is define as a "monster"? And how do you differentiate a monster from a human?



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Offline dogmai

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Re: Is playing morality immoral?
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2018, 10:42:30 PM »
Quote: "The less you know, the more you will be crazy, lacking the knowledge to understand why you are being crazy."

https://tenor.com/view/theoffice-dwight-false-gif-5220144

False! I don't see dumb people who goes crazy. Do you see one? Because I haven't. In my life, I have never seen a crazy dumb guy with no education, a high school drop out pulling on some smarty-artsy-fartsy moves about Darwinian theory, ethical philosophy, and literature on some debate. Most dumb people who knows they are drop outs will never talk because they aren't a big shot.

This is a fallacy.  To be specific,  it's the argument from ignorance.

And the less you know about a particular subject, makes you go crazy because you don't have the answers to your questions. Some people will even use irrational ideas as an answer to their questions.

BTW, I've met uneducated high school dropouts who are more moral than some educated ones.



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Offline dogmai

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Re: Is playing morality immoral?
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2018, 12:06:20 AM »
Yet, you are blind to see the wrongs in morality of what it can turn a man into. Morality can make you become an executioner or a saint. If that's what you consider it to be, then you are talking about something else, and not morality. You choose your code morality. Your actions are based on those moral codes that you choose to follow, blaming your wrongdoing on morality is just shifting the blame because you won't take responsibility for your actions.  About 90% of the time, people will become an executioner rather than a saint. Do tell me, are we ready for such knowledge as morality? Of course we are, that's the only way for someone to be a moral person. Only an amoral person would choose to reject having knowledge of morality.  Mankind is never ready to be expose in some rate-R scripture to where they cannot process that in their brains.While I do agree that some people are not ready and cannot process it, but overall,  mankind itself is ready for it. Mankind have been ready for it for a long time now, ever since when we were able to determine what is good and what is evil, right from wrong. I truly believe that the nightmares of mankind and having Jesus to die for us is to tell humanity that we don't deserve His grace. I for one, am not worthy. While I don't believe in the bible, logic would suggest that if someone decided to start preaching and spreading his ideas to people, that means that that person believe that people are ready to learn what is being taught. If you truly feel that you are not worthy and not ready, then your whole argument falls apart. The more you wish you didn't know, the more you become ignorant, thus, the more you lack the knowledge to understand it.  Someone ignorant in morality shouldn't be the one to teach/lead humanity in morality. They are not qualify to do so.

You have your solution; however, the process is too slow to the point, you are already dead at your old age before you even see your dream to come true. Mine, however, is a lot faster like a boom shot in Gears of War 2. All you need is to gather the criminals in the jail cell, find the level 10 highest criminal to be lined up in a circle, then you get your boom shot and blast them into smithereens. Job DONE! No more criminal will do harm to any others until they revolt for the rights of evil. I would like to see a riot of evil people, killing good people for not letting them rape people as they do as they please.
This is morality we're talking about here, not a race to see who reach the finish line first. Therefore, using your immoral way defeats the purpose of attempting to make mankind moral. Just because someone thinks that his actions were moral, doesn't necessarily mean that it is. A person will commit immoral acts believing it to be moral if that was what they were being taught   

We have gone from race to the hearts of man.

And your way does not solve the problem. Reacting to symptoms of a problem is not solving the problem, it's simply just dealing with the symptoms at hand. Solving the problem is to not have the symptoms showing up,  like my way.

Sure, a doctor can just give a patient some pain relievers for his headache and send him On his way. Yes, the pain will go away right there and then return later. Or a doctor can actually try and figure out what is causing the headaches. Once diagnosed, the doctor can now find a way to get rid of the headaches permanently by removing the brain tumor.



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Offline dogmai

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Re: Is playing morality immoral?
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2018, 12:41:22 AM »
Quote: " And by forcing him to get A's, he will go back to
Getting F's again once the is no more authority figure, not understanding why one should strive to get A's instead of F's"

Then he dies from starvation. Some people will choose to starve and spit at food because food is an insult to their stomach. They rather choose to eat turd than a good steak with potatoes with rice and beans. Yet, they expect the turd to taste like steak--impossible! It's what Einsteins says about insanity:Exactly, that's why those who do immoral acts after learning that god doesn't exist won't last. By not understanding morality and only refuse to do immoral acts out of fear of god, immoral people and at most amoral. These are the ones that Nietzsche were referring to tbat turns to irrationality and chaos. Confused and not knowing what to do. But like Nietzsche said, they won't last long. And once they are gone, humanity will continue to rebuild and evolve. That's one reason as to why they cannot see and/or imagine pass the chaos stage.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/374291419003002088/


Homer Simpson does this when he's on the telephone pole, expecting a new result, over and over again; yet, it still the same.Ironic how it is exactly like the solution you proposed. Killing the immoral people thinking that it's over, only to end up having to do it over again and agai.


This reminds me of a zombie apocalypse. You go by protecting people from zombies by locking them behind a walled city, killing any zombie  that is spotted inside. Every now and then some zombie pop up, sometimes killing a few survivors but pretty much is eliminated once spotted. This cycle goes on, not knowing how they got inside even after checking all fortifications .

I, on the other hand keep survivors inside a fortified city as well, difference is that I teach them about defending themselves and keeping an eye out for zombies. While doing that,  I also look for the cure for the zombie virus. It may take some time to find a cure, but at least on the way I was able to to find out how it's being transmitted and finding ways to prevent the spread of the virus. Also everyone in the city would also have this knowledge. My citizens knows the reasons as to why it's dangerous outside the city walls, but also know what to do in case they end up being outside.



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Offline dogmai

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Re: Is playing morality immoral?
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2018, 07:32:25 PM »
To be amoral is when one knows moral. An amoral cannot sudden appear by a person for that is not possible. There's a cause and effect. My effect is that after knowing, "The Knowing," from Frederich Nietzsche, man's not even ready to achieve such greatness.

With that reply, it's clear that you don't know what morality is. You don't know the difference between moral, amoral, and immoral. So unless you can give me your definition of "morality ", to see if you do know what it is, then there's no point in continuing this debate. Can't have a debate/discussion with someone about a topic they know nothing about or what it is.



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Offline dogmai

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Re: Is playing morality immoral?
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2018, 01:59:08 AM »
You think I don't know morality is? I do. You just haven't met the ugliest people that I met.
Evidence suggests that you don't know. Evidence comes from your replies. Even giving a wrong definition of "amoral". That's only one example, showing that you don't know what morality is.
Claiming that you do know followed by a red herring doesn't help you here.

So stop dodging it and tell me what morality is.



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Offline dogmai

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Re: Is playing morality immoral?
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2018, 07:53:08 PM »
I don't want your stories.  I want your definition of morality. Stop dodging the question and give me your definition.



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Offline dogmai

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Re: Is playing morality immoral?
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2018, 05:06:53 PM »
And still no definition of morality.



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Offline dogmai

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Re: Is playing morality immoral?
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2018, 10:13:55 AM »
Again, I state my claim that man is not ready for such greatness. Knowledge can be a deadly friend as I quote this from Ravi Zecharias when knowledge can harm each other. The smart ones are the rich folks who knows how the world run. They are smarter than someone who studies books in school because as to what my uncle says, "If you just know how to be book smart; however, you don't know how to use your brain."

He discriminate educated people because they had it all; yet, they don't know how to use their brain to apply the tools of education for life. They got the tools; however, they don't know how to do it for life. As for the rich, they have all the power like a total mafia who can rule the world. They are the one percent like those Jews who rule the world. Did you know that Henry Kissinger, a Jew, has caused the Indochina Vietnam war? A Jew, planned and orchestrated everything for Hmong folks to die and to start a civil war among each other is caused by this one man. One lie, many will die. Yet, you don't see what I see because the more knowledge you intake, the more conniving you will become. It just proves that knowledge can be a friend to you and to others.


When God gave the knowledge to the Jews, what did King Solomon do? I know he fuked up, but hey, all that knowledge becomes a waste. Are we really ready? Do tell me...

Since you're just rambling and don't know what morality is,  there's no point in continuing this discussion.



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