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Author Topic: Universal Basic Income?  (Read 7232 times)

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Offline w1s3m0n

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Universal Basic Income?
« on: December 08, 2018, 01:03:11 PM »
I use to be against Universal Basic Income (UBI) when I was younger because I felt people would not be motivated to work.  After years of studying the impact of robotics, automation, and artificial intelligence, and seeing the huge divergence between Wage vs. GDP, I've come to realize that UBI is a pragmatic solution to address the looming crisis of 30% labor job lost due to automation and AI.  The way I see it, you either pay people to not be disruptive or pay them to be productive.  I would rather do the latter and have a productive society.  Btw, I am not a social democrat and I am a classical liberal.  The way I have come resolve the notion of stealing private property from the rich to give to the poor comes from Andrew Yang.  He sees UBI as a form of dividend payout.  If the country is doing well, everyone gets a payout.  This type of thinking is perfectly OK because it incentivizes ALL people to hold each other accountable. This system exists in a corporate structure because shareholders who DO NOTHING are given the biggest $$ at the end of the year.  As a citizen, I have OWNERSHIP of the country.  This also resolves the current looming crisis of immigrants who don't care about America by incentivizing immigrants to become a citizen and to love the country they benefit from.


« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 01:07:54 PM by w1s3m0n »

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Offline Believe_N_Me

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Re: Universal Basic Income?
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2018, 12:54:38 AM »
We already have Universal Basic Income. It's called welfare.

Damn, doesn't anybody on PH ever read Thomas Sowell?



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Offline Believe_N_Me

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Re: Universal Basic Income?
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2018, 03:11:40 AM »



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Offline Hung_Low

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Re: Universal Basic Income?
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2018, 08:37:02 PM »
I use to be against Universal Basic Income (UBI) when I was younger because I felt people would not be motivated to work.  After years of studying the impact of robotics, automation, and artificial intelligence, and seeing the huge divergence between Wage vs. GDP, I've come to realize that UBI is a pragmatic solution to address the looming crisis of 30% labor job lost due to automation and AI.  The way I see it, you either pay people to not be disruptive or pay them to be productive.  I would rather do the latter and have a productive society.  Btw, I am not a social democrat and I am a classical liberal.  The way I have come resolve the notion of stealing private property from the rich to give to the poor comes from Andrew Yang.  He sees UBI as a form of dividend payout.  If the country is doing well, everyone gets a payout.  This type of thinking is perfectly OK because it incentivizes ALL people to hold each other accountable. This system exists in a corporate structure because shareholders who DO NOTHING are given the biggest $$ at the end of the year.  As a citizen, I have OWNERSHIP of the country.  This also resolves the current looming crisis of immigrants who don't care about America by incentivizing immigrants to become a citizen and to love the country they benefit from.

Interesting... so what amount is consider UBI? This is the same issue as the debate for $15/hr. Who in their right mind think $15/hr is a living wage? Maybe to someone in the South but not in CA or NY.



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Offline VillainousHero

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Re: Universal Basic Income?
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2019, 02:47:19 AM »
Wait...are we a social media communistic democratic society...of something like that?  my brain fart hurts.  snappy chat tweet...



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Offline Gucci K

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Re: Universal Basic Income?
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2019, 09:34:37 AM »
voting Mr. Yang for President!  ha!



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Offline w1s3m0n

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Re: Universal Basic Income?
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2019, 07:09:37 PM »
We already have Universal Basic Income. It's called welfare.

Damn, doesn't anybody on PH ever read Thomas Sowell?

Sowell isn't clear on the dramatic impact of Machine Learning.  30% job loss...  Potentially 1 in 3 people will be obsolete unless they retrain.  Add in the globalization of labor force through SaaS like upwork...how much more softening of labor demand in America?  A LOT.  We've already seen what globalization has done to American jobs.  We use to be ultra wealthy, now, we can barely get by.  So you think the average people are going to sit around while the politicians and capitalists screw everything?  Nope.



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Offline w1s3m0n

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Re: Universal Basic Income?
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2019, 07:12:31 PM »
Interesting... so what amount is consider UBI? This is the same issue as the debate for $15/hr. Who in their right mind think $15/hr is a living wage? Maybe to someone in the South but not in CA or NY.

He's suggesting like $500-$1,000 a month for every able citizen.  Alaska is doing it.  It's an interesting idea I've been reading about.



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Offline Hung_Low

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Re: Universal Basic Income?
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2019, 11:40:01 PM »
He's suggesting like $500-$1,000 a month for every able citizen.  Alaska is doing it.  It's an interesting idea I've been reading about.

Alaska is using the profits from oil to give back to it's residents. Many states don't have the luxury of doing that... But honestly, can someone really live off $1000 a month?

You can't blame the rich... they worked hard and invested wisely or their forefather did and they inherited the wealth. By giving people free money, we will create a generation of lazy people. Just look at welfare recipients... majority of them don't want to get better... just have more kids to milk more money from the gov't.



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Offline w1s3m0n

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Re: Universal Basic Income?
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2019, 09:09:34 PM »
Alaska is using the profits from oil to give back to it's residents. Many states don't have the luxury of doing that... But honestly, can someone really live off $1000 a month?

You can't blame the rich... they worked hard and invested wisely or their forefather did and they inherited the wealth. By giving people free money, we will create a generation of lazy people. Just look at welfare recipients... majority of them don't want to get better... just have more kids to milk more money from the gov't.

HL, it's ECONOMICS BRO.  I kid you not.  Here are a few statistics you should keep in mind.
1) 30 years ago 1% wealthiest own 50% of the stock market.  Today, 1% wealthiest own 70% own the stock market.
2) Wealth creation in the 20th century is created through a Newtonian physics equation called F=MA, or to put it in money term, wealth = asset x currency speed x transaction speed.  Since wealthy people don't SPEND, the currency speed is declining.  However, the transaction speed is increasing through automation, but that too is reaching a peak point with ATM, Credit Card, Flash Trading, etc...

Based upon these two simple principles, we can extrapolate a very simple understanding.  Unless monetary policy changes, the 1% will continue to accumulate more of the wealth in America.  As the 1% accumulates more wealth, the TOTAL wealth will decline due to lack of spending due to a decrease in currency speed.  What this means is the federal reserve will likely introduce a NEGATIVE INTEREST RATE POLICY (NIRP) in the next crash.

Now, let me tell you about a conservative economist name Milton Friedman.  He saw these trend lines 20+ years ago, and he proposed this radical idea called negative interest rate.  The government would tax money in the bank account by 2% per year to force savers to spend.  The people who are greatly impacted the most are the 1%.  Who will receive the 2% NIRP?  Guess who?  The people.  So essentially, Milton Friedman did propose UBI but under NIRP.

What UBI or dividend promoter argue is that, let's not wait for a crash.  Let's stave off a crisis through enlightened leadership and create a policy that forces wealthy people to spend and not save.


« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 09:12:18 PM by w1s3m0n »

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Offline Believe_N_Me

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Re: Universal Basic Income?
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2019, 01:22:27 AM »
voting Mr. Yang for President!  ha!

Nobody is asking Andrew Yang the most basic question:

"What happens when automation goes belly up?"

Remember all the dot coms?  :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny:



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Offline Believe_N_Me

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Re: Universal Basic Income?
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2019, 01:23:54 AM »
Xav muaj nyiaj ces kav tsij khwv, noj tsawg, txhua nyiaj, thiab khaws nyiaj.



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Wi_sweetguy

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Re: Universal Basic Income?
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2019, 11:21:50 AM »
bring the jobs back, cut military spending and reinvestment in america.. solution solved.



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Offline theking

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Re: Universal Basic Income?
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2019, 05:06:30 PM »
voting Mr. Yang for President!  ha!

Nobody is asking Andrew Yang the most basic question:

"What happens when automation goes belly up?"

Remember all the dot coms?  :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny:

LOVE IT!!!  ;D ;D ;D



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Offline Believe_N_Me

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Re: Universal Basic Income?
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2019, 06:16:23 AM »
Giving poor people money will not make them more productive. It will only fund their bad habits until they're back in the same situation and then they'll want to increase the $1k to $2k. Alaska is not the entire country. Furthermore, Yang is completely out of touch. UBI will incentivize the poorest of people to breed. He wants to give every adult child $1k even if they live with their parents. The Hmong are gonna start having 20 children. Welfare will take care of the children until they reach 18 and are eligible for UBI. So when exactly are parents actually going to be parents? One family could be reaping $20k/month. Yang is delusional to think that everybody will invest the money and take risks by opening up businesses.

What a joke!

Plus, who really runs and operates automation that is paying the divided if not big corporations who will no doubt own the government?

Talk about the quickest way to lead America to socialism.

Deregulate some industries. That is the quickest way for people to start getting jobs and relocating.

Nobody can get into a different industry because of too much regulations.



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