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Author Topic: Ask me about Calvinism  (Read 5713 times)

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Offline Gracified23

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Re: Ask me about Calvinism
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2020, 12:14:32 PM »
If god already predetermine who is going to come to him then why even evangelize?   Why even pray for the world or to your family or to your friends?  Your prayers don't work if things are predetermined.

There is still the need to evangelize because I don’t know who the elect are. But I know they are out there who will absolutely come to faith because Christ atoned for their sins.

If god already predetermine then all them sinful acts to men and evils and natural disaster to wipe out men are all on him.  He wanted all of these people dead and this is the kind of god you want to worship? 

If god already predetermine then men can not repent because he has no free will.   The fool already said it in his heart that there is no god but yet, there are still fools out there like Paul who was a prosecutor of them Christians were able to repent and turned back to god. 

If god already predetermine then there is no such a thing as randomness

Exactly. Look at pharaoh for example. God determined to hardened his heart even before Pharaoh hardened his own heart. Pharoah can’t turn even if he wanted to. Btw, he would not have the desire to repent anyhow. When God regenerate the sinner He gives them the desire to repent.  God does all these things. I know we don’t like it but that’s just how it is. God is sovereign and He have mercy on who he have mercy. 

I will answer the rest of your questions because I’m on mobile and it’s rough typing.



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Offline Gracified23

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Re: Ask me about Calvinism
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2020, 12:32:18 PM »
if your god is all powerful and all knowing and all willingly, why not banish satan? 

he still gave him a chance.  What happened when jesus went praying up that mountain and fasting and satan was there to temp him in matt 4:8-11  Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
9
    "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
10
    Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: `Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' [4] "
11
    Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

He still gave him a chance to repent.  A god that I know is all loving and giving everyone a chance to seek him out and repent.

First, Christ atonement is for the elect. The elect will have faith in Christ. Jesus said “my sheep hears my voice and they follow me. You do not follow me cause you’re not mine.”

Second, if Satan can still have his sins forgiven yet still up in hell. Then that means his forgiveness was not included in the atonement. If it’s not forgiven in the atonement, then the atonement actually doesn’t provide forgiveness.

The atonement is real. When Christ died he paid it all, so if people still end up in hell, then it’s not a real atonement and Christ didn’t actually die for that person.

If what you’re saying is true then you just prove universalism :2funny:

The Bible speaks of people being in hell so that can’t be correct.


« Last Edit: November 28, 2020, 12:44:07 PM by Gracified23 »

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Offline hmgROCK

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Re: Ask me about Calvinism
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2020, 01:29:20 PM »
Calvin was a Christian theologian during the reformation period of the church. His writings deals with God’s election and predestination which goes back all the way since Augustine in the 300’s. If you want to know the belief of the Christian faith you have to go back to those guys. Those guys didn’t rewrite the Bible or anything. They read the Bible and put together a systematic theology. We still have some of their writings to this day.

Hmong shaman is not even the true form. The real shaman goes back to the native Americans. Or as far back as the Stone Age.

So the dude rewrote the bible to his liking
And you like and study his teaching

Thats what I’ve been saying
Its just a book

Maybe i will write a book too ;D



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God did not created man...man created god

Offline hmgROCK

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Re: Ask me about Calvinism
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2020, 01:35:31 PM »
Shamanism is pretty much like new age movement and mystics. Can Shamanism logically account for the world we live in? How does it account for the creation of the world? Objective moral values like right and wrong, good and evil? Internal critique and showing that only the Christian worldview can account for all these things. That’s what Augustine did. He took Christian belief to a Greek thinking culture in his days and showed that only God can account for all of that. To study church history and not knowing who Augustine is, is like studying the New York Yankees and not knowing who Babe Ruth is. Augustine was a church father he’s consider one of the greatest Christian theologian who ever lived. Many of them came from a pagan background and were monks. It’s fascinating. During the Protestant Reformation period Calvin picked up his work and was influenced by it. 

Ever heard the idea of original sin? That idea came from Augustine. He believe that man is dead and cannot have faith because he is fallen. Man will never choose God because he still in rebellion. The only way that he could to God is that it God grant him grace. This is where the idea of doctrine of grace comes from. Not everybody will believe in the Gospel, but only those that God predestined.

My old folks still practice shaman
They told me a hmong story
about a brother and sister
There was a flood
The brother and sister float on the drum
Once it settled they start tossing stuff
And thats how you get the many hmong clan

 ;D



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Offline Gracified23

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Re: Ask me about Calvinism
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2020, 07:10:49 PM »
if god already predetermine then why did jesus say he died for the whole world?  1 John 2:2—“And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.”

In 1 John 2:2, John is speaking to the Jews about Christ atonement. Jesus satisfy the wrath of God not just for them (the Jews) but also for the whole world. The word “world” in Greek is Kosmos and it means Gentiles.

Not for ours only = believing Jews

The whole world = all other believers (Gentiles)

If god already predetermine to save some and damn some then what is wrong with this bible verse here that says that there are those who damn but can turn to god and be save?   James 5:19-20—“Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.”

When you believe in free-will, you believe you can fall from grace. If you believe in free-will and believe you can't fall from grace then that is inconsistent.

With that in mind, I bring you this bible verse that shows that your god does not pick who he wants to save and who he wants to be damn cuz to god, he doesn't take a part of the pie, he takes the whole pie.  Romans 2:11—“For there is no partiality with God.”

Are you sure about that? Because the Bible does say God loves Jacob and hated Esau.

The Bible speaks of God blinding their eyes and not have ears to hear.

“He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn—and I would heal them.”
John 12:40 NIV

One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ”  Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
Romans 9:19-‬21 NIV

Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”  Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”  What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
Romans 9:11-‬15 NIV



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Offline Gracified23

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Re: Ask me about Calvinism
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2020, 10:31:07 PM »
So the dude rewrote the bible to his liking
And you like and study his teaching

Thats what I’ve been saying
Its just a book

Maybe i will write a book too ;D

“ was a French theologian, pastor and reformer in Geneva during the Protestant Reformation. He was a principal figure in the development of the system of Christian theology later called Calvinism, aspects of which include the doctrines of predestination and of the absolute sovereignty of God in salvation of the human soul from death and eternal damnation, in which doctrines Calvin was influenced by and elaborated upon the Augustinian and other Christian traditions. Various Congregational, Reformed and Presbyterian churches, which look to Calvin as the chief expositor of their beliefs, have spread throughout the world.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Calvin

“ Saint Augustine, was a theologian, philosopher, and the bishop of Hippo Regius in Numidia, Roman North Africa. His writings influenced the development of Western philosophy and Western Christianity, and he is viewed as one of the most important Church Fathers of the Latin Church in the Patristic Period. His many important works include The City of God, On Christian Doctrine, and Confessions.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Hippo



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Online Visualmon

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Re: Ask me about Calvinism
« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2020, 12:12:55 AM »
There's another bible fanatic. Good grief.  :)

Nobody knows when the disciples wrote the books and where they took place. Their stories are their testimony, not ours to copy and become like them.



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Offline DuMa

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Re: Ask me about Calvinism
« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2020, 01:52:12 PM »
First, Christ atonement is for the elect. The elect will have faith in Christ. Jesus said “my sheep hears my voice and they follow me. You do not follow me cause you’re not mine.”

Second, if Satan can still have his sins forgiven yet still up in hell. Then that means his forgiveness was not included in the atonement. If it’s not forgiven in the atonement, then the atonement actually doesn’t provide forgiveness.

The atonement is real. When Christ died he paid it all, so if people still end up in hell, then it’s not a real atonement and Christ didn’t actually die for that person.

If what you’re saying is true then you just prove universalism :2funny:

The Bible speaks of people being in hell so that can’t be correct.

Prove that satan in hell.  If hes in hell and Damn for eternity, how the hell was he up in that mountain to temp jesus?

Prove that there are people in hell right now. 

Matt 25:41 ....hell was prepared for his Angels n devils








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Offline Gracified23

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Re: Ask me about Calvinism
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2020, 03:15:18 PM »
Prove that satan in hell.  If hes in hell and Damn for eternity, how the hell was he up in that mountain to temp jesus?

Prove that there are people in hell right now. 

Matt 25:41 ....hell was prepared for his Angels n devils

Satan is not hell bound yet until the end of time. You know that.

Matthew 25 is talking about all the nations will get judged. The believing ones who does righteous are the sheep and can go into God’s kingdom. But the bad ones are the goats. The Bible mention sheep and goats and when Jesus is coming back He will separate them.




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Offline hmgROCK

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Re: Ask me about Calvinism
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2020, 04:26:22 PM »
So this calvin guy don’t like the current version of the bible at that time
And decided to rewrite his own version

Oh geez brother

Don’t you see the problem???
The problem is people just making up shyt


SHOOT MAN
WRITE A HMONG BIBLE VERSION
For us

Hahahha



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God did not created man...man created god

Offline hmgROCK

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Re: Ask me about Calvinism
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2020, 04:34:22 PM »
Maybe god did not created man
But man created god by writing and fantasing all these being in existence



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Offline theking

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Re: Ask me about Calvinism
« Reply #41 on: November 29, 2020, 10:11:07 PM »
Speaking of "making up shyt", this PH member nailed with his assessment  O0:

sh1t talker?  this, I'll have to give you the winning prize.  you're the biggest sh1t talker in here.
of course you don't know,



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Offline hmgROCK

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Re: Ask me about Calvinism
« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2020, 05:51:43 PM »
Duma and gracifed can’t agree on satan and hell....
Maybe one of you can pulled a calvin
And write your own version

Hahahahaha

This is why religion is soooo dumb



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Offline theking

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Re: Ask me about Calvinism
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2020, 09:50:11 PM »
Probably not as "dumb" as this guy though as he got nominated to be the "dumbest"  ???:

Maybe I should hire a dumbest person on the planet to argue with him. hmgROCK is definitely hired for the job. 



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Offline hmgROCK

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Re: Ask me about Calvinism
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2020, 10:26:02 PM »
Duma and gracifed can’t agree on satan and hell....
Maybe one of you can pulled a calvin
And write your own version

Hahahahaha

This is why religion is soooo dumb



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God did not created man...man created god

 

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