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Swordplay
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« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2007, 06:24:23 PM » |
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But I thought these were used by cov "caubfab" to communicate about military strategies only and has nothing to do with "ancient Hmong language". Or am I assuming too much here? Or are we talking about two different form of writing?
They used this one: http://www.omniglot.com/writing/hmong.htmYes don't get them mixed up please, that one is borrowed from Lao/Thai/Vietnamese/Russian characters, the Pajntaub is simply the Ancient Hmong Writing system that they preserved on the Paj Ntaub. |
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Swordplay
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« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2007, 06:49:08 PM » |
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It'll be interesting to learn these alphabet.
One elder is offering private lessons, you can probably learn through those charts and over the phone. Basically if you have a very good understanding of the RPA system and linguistics this should be a cake walk. Then again don't take my word for it, he said it took him a total of 15 years to learn from the elderly women. |
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zoov
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« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2007, 09:22:55 PM » |
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Yep that's the one. I know the person working on those charts, he can read/write it. If you'd like to meet them or talk to them on the phone send me a private message.
 ...i'll notify you whne do have the time too many things clogged in mind for the time being thanx bro Swordplay or is it sis?? |
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"The five colors blind the eye
The five tones deafen the ear
The five flavors dull the taste."-Laus Txuj
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Swordplay
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« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2007, 12:17:50 AM » |
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...i'll notify you whne do have the time too many things clogged in mind for the time being thanx bro Swordplay or is it sis?? Just send me a message whenever you want. It's bro, bro. haha |
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Swordplay
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« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2007, 10:24:45 PM » |
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Swordplay
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« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2007, 11:16:09 PM » |
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it's a bit fuzzy.. but readable.. thanks swordplay  np The original is 24x24 and much easier to read but we're waiting for confirmation from the Library of Congress for copyrights until then can't share the better version. |
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Swordplay
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« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2007, 06:51:40 AM » |
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This is probably why the elders keep on telling you to "rau siab kawm ntaub, kawm ntawv".
Precisely. |
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Swordplay
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« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2007, 07:17:25 AM » |
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Hmong today are very smart. I doubt this was an ancient creation; it must be a new creation for retrospect.
Oral Hmong history records that the paj ntaub preserved our written language. All these characters can be found on the traditional Hmong flower cloth which was strictly not to be altered. |
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LeLaaay
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« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2008, 01:17:54 AM » |
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They used this one: http://www.omniglot.com/writing/hmong.htmYes don't get them mixed up please, that one is borrowed from Lao/Thai/Vietnamese/Russian characters, the Pajntaub is simply the Ancient Hmong Writing system that they preserved on the Paj Ntaub. interesting cause my mom had a bible with the exact hmong writing as linked above. funny, how she can read the bible in that language but she couldn't read the english alphabet. I don't know if she still has the bible. |
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zuaghawj
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« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2008, 01:47:01 PM » |
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Not sure exactly, but I think they're pretty ancient...like ly around the time when the Hmong were enslaved and were not allowed to read or write...but luckily the women hid the alphabet in their clothes and textile arts so that future generations may know...
This is probably why the elders keep on telling you to "rau siab kawm ntaub, kawm ntawv".
That is so true! The elders have always told you to "rau siab kawm ntaub kawm ntawv," and you never really think about the whole phrase in full, but wow that makes so much sense! I'm telling my mom |
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Jack Dou
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« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2008, 03:50:42 PM » |
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I admit that I am very amazed at this. But really- HOW MANY MORE ALPHABETS DO THE HMONG HAVE? This is the 3rd one already. There's the Ntawv Koob Hmoov, Pahawb Hmong, and now this?
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« Last Edit: January 16, 2008, 01:15:56 PM by Swordplay »
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Swordplay
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« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2008, 10:15:45 PM » |
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I admit that I am very amazed at this. But really- HOW MANY MORE ALPHABETS DO THE HMONG HAVE? This is the 3rd one already. There's the Ntawv Koob Hmoov, Pahawb Hmong, and now this?
I don't know how many more there are, but it would be incorrect to say "and now this?" because this one came first (estimated @ at least 2000 years old). Remember, if you want to learn American history you don't ask the English, you ask the American historians. Therefore to know Hmong history we don't ask the Chinese, we ask the Hmong historians. |
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Jack Dou
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« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2008, 12:43:59 PM » |
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I don't know how many more there are, but it would be incorrect to say "and now this?" because this one came first (estimated @ at least 2000 years old). Remember, if you want to learn American history you don't ask the English, you ask the American historians. Therefore to know Hmong history we don't ask the Chinese, we ask the Hmong historians.
So far the Hmong historians aren't able to dig up the real facts and history of our people. It's stories that have been brought along the generations. Our people live amongst storytellers. Those are our historians. If we were to ask the eldest of the eldest right now. They could only recall soo far back to "Our parents says that our grandparents traveled over from China." But if you'd look into history itself, the Chinese proclaim that the Hmong have been living in China for a very long time thus leading to building of the "Hmong wall" aka Southern wall of China. I would say that if this is the first set of Hmong alphabets, that is still amazing. Plus the two newer ones are similar to those shown above too. |
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Swordplay
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« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2008, 12:55:49 PM » |
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So far the Hmong historians aren't able to dig up the real facts and history of our people. It's stories that have been brought along the generations. Our people live amongst storytellers. Those are our historians. If we were to ask the eldest of the eldest right now. They could only recall soo far back to "Our parents says that our grandparents traveled over from China." But if you'd look into history itself, the Chinese proclaim that the Hmong have been living in China for a very long time thus leading to building of the "Hmong wall" aka Southern wall of China.
I would say that if this is the first set of Hmong alphabets, that is still amazing. Plus the two newer ones are similar to those shown above too.
Our history was recorded orally and apparently that isn't good enough for some of today's educational societies. Nevertheless, we should preserve what we still have. Not all elders know our history as not all people study history therefore many elders when interviewed knew little of anything other than the fact we came from China. Still, there are those who know. As for the Ntawv Koob Hmoov and Pahawb Hmong writings you mentioned, someone said they're both one and the same? Here's a decent site that shows a list of writing systems for the Hmong: http://hmoobvwj.com/qauv/ntawv/hmoob/index.phpOne thing I must also note is that before the RPA system was made for the Hmong, the ntaub ntawv Hmoob was presented to the Christian missionaries but for some reason it was ignored and suppressed as they mislead many Hmong into believing that we never had a writing system at all. Only the few who naturally enjoy studying Hmong history, culture, and linguistics had ever heard of the paj ntaub preserving the Hmong writing system. |
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xeemlauj
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« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2008, 08:36:32 AM » |
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This is probably why the elders keep on telling you to "rau siab kawm ntaub, kawm ntawv".
I am fascinated by what you stated. I've never really thought of that phrase. You actually open a new door to my research and understanding of the Hmong Culture and History. |
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