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Author Topic: Hmong History FAQ  (Read 65032 times)

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Ntxhais Hlub

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Re: Where did HMONG(we) come from?
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2007, 07:44:02 PM »
Off topic, but if you've seen "Chinese Paladin" ...  Ling'er and Qing'er are miao. You can see some similarities to hmong clothing if you watch closely.  ;D For example, the guy that like's Ah Nu can be seen wearing what looks like hmong clothing and one of those metal neck thingies.

Tang Yu and Sir Shi are Miao also. Those "metal neck thingies" are spirit locks. In the movie, Ling Er and Qing Er are the descendants of Nuwa or as we call her in Hmoob, Nkauj Ntsuab (as in Nkauj Ntsuab thiab Siv Nas). Ah Nu's mother is referred to as "Nan Man Mama" which can be translated as Miao (Hmong) mother since the term "Nan Man" once was used to refer to Miao/Hmong people as well.

photine, thanks for the links, will read up on them and we can discuss them later.


« Last Edit: October 13, 2007, 09:29:00 PM by Ntxhais Hlub »

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Mizan

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Re: Where did HMONG(we) come from?
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2007, 05:21:03 AM »
There has been extensive genetic and linguistics research done on the peoples of China in recent years. One such research was the sampling and screening of the Y-chromosome Haplogroup 03-M122 found in East Asian populations, of which Hmong/Miao people are carriers. The results of this research indicates that the Haplogroup 03-M122 is of southern origins and that the northward migration of this Haplogroup occurred some time between 25,000 and 30,000 years ago.



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Mizan

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Re: Where did HMONG(we) come from?
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2007, 01:03:24 PM »
Interesting. Is there a website on this research?

To my knowledge there is no website, however I do have the results of the research in PDF form, if you like I can upload that for you.

What's also interesting is that in another research study done by a different group of scientists/geneticists, they concluded that most Hmong maternal mtDNA lineages are of southern origins, however they also found that Miao/Hmong people have a high ratio of northern mtDNA lineages as well, which goes to suggest that Miao/Hmong people had extensive and prolonged contact with northern East Asian people i.e. Manchus, northern Han, etc.


« Last Edit: October 14, 2007, 02:20:21 PM by Mizan »

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HmongKnight

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Re: Where did HMONG(we) come from?
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2007, 11:32:14 AM »
Hmong is from ancient Canaan or the middle east.



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Mizan

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Re: Where did HMONG(we) come from?
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2007, 01:08:35 PM »
What does mojthem mean?
Sounds like it means retribution but your guess is as good as mine. "Hurt Pay" = Payback = Retribution?  >:D
According to the website, "mojthem" means "koom siab."



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Drum

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Re: Where did HMONG(we) come from?
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2007, 06:54:01 PM »
There has been extensive genetic and linguistics research done on the peoples of China in recent years. One such research was the sampling and screening of the Y-chromosome Haplogroup 03-M122 found in East Asian populations, of which Hmong/Miao people are carriers. The results of this research indicates that the Haplogroup 03-M122 is of southern origins and that the northward migration of this Haplogroup occurred some time between 25,000 and 30,000 years ago.

Anyone interested in this research or to actually participate and send in your DNA to be tested to find out where you came from then go to this website:

The GenoGraphic Project

Check it ou.  It's very cool.



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Mizan

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Re: Where did HMONG(we) come from?
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2007, 09:12:36 PM »
Anyone interested in this research or to actually participate and send in your DNA to be tested to find out where you came from then go to this website:

The GenoGraphic Project

Check it ou.  It's very cool.

Thanks for the link, Drum. Going through that website, I noticed that the man heading the East/Southeast Asia research is Li Jin. He was one of the geneticist involved in the research I mentioned earlier about the southern origins of Hmong maternal mtDNA.



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PYK

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Re: Where did HMONG(we) come from?
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2007, 04:47:26 PM »
After the Hmong kingdom was destroyed, the Chinese divided the Hmong into five groups, the blue, green, red, flowery, and white based upon the color of the cloths that each wore. This was to ensure the separation of the Hmong and deterrence for reuniting and reestablishing another kingdom. This was in effect an effective move and the Hmongs were separated and removed. This separation is still on many levels in effect today. The 5 groups, although still speak the same language, have different dialects. Again, the Hmong people were a tribal people; many fleeing to the mountains, again their salvation, where they found relative peace.
Separation did not deter the Hmong from forming and uniting to achieve a common goal. They continued to rebel and fight against oppression. They proved so strong at times that the Southern Great Wall, a scaled down version of the Great Wall of China, was erected in 1615 on the Hunan-Kweichow border to thwart off rebellious Hmongs. No Hmongs were permitted to cross over this border, even to trade.
   From 1711-1799, China came under the rule of Ch’ien Lung. During this dynasty Ch’ien Lung expanded China even more and strengthened hold on bordering country much to the heavy burden of taxes upon the citizens within. This led to numerous rebellions from rebel groups in China, among them the Hmong. Because of the location of the Hmong, Ch’ien Lung spent an enormous amount of money trying to quench his Hmong enemies. He lost many troops and generals attempting to suppress the Hmong. The Hmong were at an advantage, they were the masters of the mountains, and knew the terrains well. The Chinese had to struggle to even get close to the Hmong strongholds. Many Chinese armies got trapped in huge gorges and men starved to death. Numerous failed attempts angered the King and he demanded an extermination of the Hmong.
   Ch’ien Lung enlisted his one of his best strategic general, General Akoui, to destroy the Hmong. General Akoui using patience and trekking along lesser used paths eventually forced his way into the Hmong villages situated among the mountains destroying and wrecking havoc. He then surrounded the small village of Karai in which the Hmong Prince, Prince Sonom, had fled. The prince firmly refusing to surrender held a small council in deciding that death was preferable to surrender and how to do so in a way that would also kill as many Chinese as possible. A plan soon ensued. When the canons of Akoui’s armies penetrate the walls, Karai would be set in flames. This really reflects the courageousness of the Hmong people and their livelihood. They would rather die than surrender.
   This would have been the end had Sonom’s mother not begged him to spare his younger brother and sister. Sonom unable to refuse his mother bartered with Akoui and took a chance that they would be spared if they did surrender. Akoui knowing this would be the only way to capture Sonom quickly agreed that their lives would be spared should they surrender. This was not to be. Akoui was setting a trap to ensure Ch’ien Lung’s long awaited revenge on the Hmong. Sonom, the royal family, and a group of his closest advisors were  escorted to Peking. Once there Ch’ien Lung rattled off a list of treacherous offenses against the king punishable by death. Sonom, his family, and advisors were tied to posts and cut into pieces.
   This was the beginning of an end. Before Sonom’s death in 1776, a few hundred Hmong had cross the border of China and into Vietnam. This would be the start of mass migrations into Indochina. Sometime in the first quarter of the 19th century, a Chinese opium merchant named Ton Ma encouraged the Hmong to migrate further south by luring them of stories about lush green fertile land unoccupied and ready for the taking. Ton Ma wanted the Hmong to move to better land as to grow more opium for his trade as the Hmong were well known for their opium fields. The Hmong weary of war and eager for a land of their own trekked down to this land, modern day Nong Het, in Laos  This land would hold in future years one of the largest Hmong settlements in Laos. It would also prove to be a central location and focus for upcoming wars that would nearly destroy the people who are called Hmong



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snowpea

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Re: Where did HMONG(we) come from?
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2007, 06:52:42 PM »
Whoever said the wall of China was built partially to keep the Hmong out is so so wrong. First of all, the Hmong from China are geographically located in Southern China. The great wall is in Northern China. I highly doubt that the Hmong traveled North to fight the Chinese.

"Their ancestors originated in southwestern China, in the provinces of Yunnan, Guizhou, Sichuan, and Hunan. For several thousand years, the central Chinese government dominated by Han Chinese basically left the Hmong (called Miao by the Chinese) alone, as long as they paid their tributes to the Chinese. However, the last dynasty in China, the Qing (1644-1911), founded by Manchus, followed a different policy. Qing armies and officials oppressed the Hmong, who rose in rebellion. In the early nineteenth century, this political persecution, along with increasing population pressure, led some of the Hmong to migrate southward into mainland Southeast Asia, where they settled in the mountainous regions of northern Burma, Thailand, Laos, and Vietnam." - Sucheng Chan, Hmong Means Free

http://www.hmongnet.org/publications/hmf-intro.html

As someone else stated above, those Hmong people with blue eyes and brown hair are purely albino. 


« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 06:55:43 PM by snowpea »

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PYK

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Re: Where did HMONG(we) come from?
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2007, 07:16:38 PM »
I believe there was a smaller wall built around the Hunan area that was built to suppress the Hmong in that era... but like all history.....it is simply a ...story.



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Swordplay

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Re: Where did HMONG(we) come from?
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2007, 08:22:37 PM »
Before Sonom’s death in 1776, a few hundred Hmong had cross the border of China and into Vietnam. This would be the start of mass migrations into Indochina. Sometime in the first quarter of the 19th century, a Chinese opium merchant named Ton Ma encouraged the Hmong to migrate further south by luring them of stories about lush green fertile land unoccupied and ready for the taking. Ton Ma wanted the Hmong to move to better land as to grow more opium for his trade as the Hmong were well known for their opium fields. The Hmong weary of war and eager for a land of their own trekked down to this land, modern day Nong Het, in Laos  This land would hold in future years one of the largest Hmong settlements in Laos. It would also prove to be a central location and focus for upcoming wars that would nearly destroy the people who are called Hmong
You should read the Myth of Sonom. Unfortunately after more thorough research it seems Keith Quinsy who originally talked about Sonom in his book was incorrect in linking Sonom with the Hmong.

http://hmongstudies.org/EntenmannHSJ6.pdf



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Swordplay

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Re: Where did HMONG(we) come from?
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2007, 08:31:13 PM »
I believe there was a smaller wall built around the Hunan area that was built to suppress the Hmong in that era... but like all history.....it is simply a ...story.
I think Yuepheng Xiong talked about it in his first video documentary.

http://www.hmongabc.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=55&products_id=242&osCsid=dfa2dbc10ddc1c70ad6bdbdbeb7effe3

Although I wouldn't say it's anything close to the Great Wall of China, the width nor height of the "Southern Great Wall" wasn't anything close.



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PYK

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Re: Where did HMONG(we) come from?
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2007, 08:50:26 PM »
swordplay- learning is constantly evolving... thanks for the insight... :)



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Swordplay

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Re: Where did HMONG(we) come from?
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2007, 08:52:04 PM »
swordplay- learning is constantly evolving... thanks for the insight... :)
Yep np. Our history is difficult to research, updated or new info is always good to spread.



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PYK

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Re: Where did HMONG(we) come from?
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2007, 08:55:08 PM »
Yep np. Our history is difficult to research, updated or new info is always good to spread.

I would really like to do some ground research on Hmong customs... how uniquely interesting to intrinsically understand all the many traditions we partake in...

....all history is difficult.. especially when it doesn't come from a first person viewpoint..



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