PebHmong Discussion Forum

Life & Living => Faith & Beliefs => Topic started by: Yengimer on April 29, 2018, 12:50:07 PM

Title: Is Jesus God?
Post by: Yengimer on April 29, 2018, 12:50:07 PM
How do you guys understand this? Let me know what you believe and I will later give my thoughts about it.

Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: Visualmon on May 05, 2018, 03:10:55 AM
Didn't John the Baptist blurt it out to the sinners at the Jordan river when he announced that Jesus was the one who can bless anyone with the holy spirit and fire (weapon against demons/zeal to God), filter out the inequities with a winnow (pitchfork), and rescue anyone from pain/sorrow and condemnation from his father's wrath?

(https://media.giphy.com/media/6yRVg0HWzgS88/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: DuMa on May 05, 2018, 11:38:10 AM
The answer give clues from the old testament but if you want to refute, go the Jewish doctrine route. 

Funny how the atheist don't go the atheist route but crop the route of the Jewish and ride with it.   
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: Yengimer on May 05, 2018, 04:06:48 PM
Didn't John the Baptist blurt it out to the sinners at the Jordan river when he announced that Jesus was the one who can bless anyone with the holy spirit and fire (weapon against demons/zeal to God), filter out the inequities with a winnow (pitchfork), and rescue anyone from pain/sorrow and condemnation from his father's wrath?

(https://media.giphy.com/media/6yRVg0HWzgS88/giphy.gif)

From what I remember, John the Baptist said "Behold the Lamb of God..."

The Jehovah Witnesses will say that Jesus been given all authority by the Father. So everything Jesus does it's because He didn't do it by Himself. It was the Father who gave Him the power. So just because Jesus did these things, it still doesn't mean Jesus is God. So how can we refute this?
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: Yengimer on May 05, 2018, 04:07:42 PM
The answer give clues from the old testament but if you want to refute, go the Jewish doctrine route. 

Funny how the atheist don't go the atheist route but crop the route of the Jewish and ride with it.

Even the Muslims are now using the Jehovah Witnesses arguments.
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: Visualmon on May 05, 2018, 08:54:09 PM
From what I remember, John the Baptist said "Behold the Lamb of God..."

The Jehovah Witnesses will say that Jesus been given all authority by the Father. So everything Jesus does it's because He didn't do it by Himself. It was the Father who gave Him the power. So just because Jesus did these things, it still doesn't mean Jesus is God. So how can we refute this?

Well, that's their knowledge, not according to what Jesus had said to his disciples. JWs are crappy and full of contradictions . One time they try to convince me that there's no Jesus except his father. If there's no Jesus what's the point of preaching Jesus's name from the New World Translation whenever they go doors to doors in people's homes. That's doesn't makes sense.  :2funny:

There were more contradictions from their mouth:
1. They said when we die, we're going back to the ground where we were once created and we ought to stay under the ground until God give us purgatory. There's no Kingdom up there in Heaven but we gonna stay here on earth and God will grant us new life and everyone from the dead will be resurrected.
Hum, that ain't salvation. It's more like God serving us other than other way around where we were suppose to serve him.
2. God communicate with us in words from the bible as it teaches us fundamental things about how God works mysterious ways. Whenever we dreams about something important, the devil is tempting us. How come an Angel talk to Mary (Jesus's biological mother) and God talks to Joseph in his sleep? How come Jacob's son Joseph receive the gift of dream to his family and the Pharaoh?
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: Yengimer on May 06, 2018, 09:05:10 AM
Well, that's their knowledge, not according to what Jesus had said to his disciples. JWs are crappy and full of contradictions . One time they try to convince me that there's no Jesus except his father. If there's no Jesus what's the point of preaching Jesus's name from the New World Translation whenever they go doors to doors in people's homes. That's doesn't makes sense.  :2funny:

There were more contradictions from their mouth:
1. They said when we die, we're going back to the ground where we were once created and we ought to stay under the ground until God give us purgatory. There's no Kingdom up there in Heaven but we gonna stay here on earth and God will grant us new life and everyone from the dead will be resurrected.
Hum, that ain't salvation. It's more like God serving us other than other way around where we were suppose to serve him.
2. God communicate with us in words from the bible as it teaches us fundamental things about how God works mysterious ways. Whenever we dreams about something important, the devil is tempting us. How come an Angel talk to Mary (Jesus's biological mother) and God talks to Joseph in his sleep? How come Jacob's son Joseph receive the gift of dream to his family and the Pharaoh?

The Jehovah Witnesses believe they are the 144,000.  They will rule with Jehovah in His earthy kingdom.

They don't believe in Hell as we Christians understood it, they believe when one dies he is annihilated.

Jesus is Michael the Arch Angel before His incarnation, and He didn't bodily resurrected either, God actually recreated Michael the Arch Angel again. Jesus is not Jesus in heaven right now. He is Michael.
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: DuMa on May 06, 2018, 04:40:39 PM
Matthew 16:13-20

Jesus asked Simon Peter who he was.  He said you are the Messiah, son of the living god. 

No flesh on Earth told him that but his father in heaven.  Because of that, Peter is known by the Roman Catholic church as the first pope and the key holder to heaven.  What he binds on Earth, heaven will also binds. 

Jesus also tells his disciples no to tell anyone that he is the Messiah. 
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: Visualmon on May 06, 2018, 05:09:53 PM
Matthew 16:13-20

Jesus asked Simon Peter who he was.  He said you are the Messiah, son of the living god. 

No flesh on Earth told him that but his father in heaven.  Because of that, Peter is known by the Roman Catholic church as the first pope and the key holder to heaven.  What he binds on Earth, heaven will also binds. 

Jesus also tells his disciples no to tell anyone that he is the Messiah.

 O0 O0
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: Visualmon on May 06, 2018, 05:27:34 PM
The Jehovah Witnesses believe they are the 144,000.  They will rule with Jehovah in His earthy kingdom.

They don't believe in Hell as we Christians understood it, they believe when one dies he is annihilated.

Jesus is Michael the Arch Angel before His incarnation, and He didn't bodily resurrected either, God actually recreated Michael the Arch Angel again. Jesus is not Jesus in heaven right now. He is Michael.

Please dude, stop  ;D. No more ideas from their theology. Their belief are giving me migraine.

(https://memegenerator.net/img/images/1121819.jpg)

This is why I hop on the magic carpet and flew the hell out of there. That's because I receive a sign and a dream telling me to get away from them or else I'll end up having a curse of 666 on my forehead. When I die, I'll be among them vomit out of God's mouth when he reveal our inequity for mocking him. Good thing I haven't been baptized in water at their kingdom hall. Before I went into their congregation, I receive a dream about being baptized in water and being exorcised by men like the speaker or a pastor will not lead to salvation. Only Jesus Christ can.
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: Yengimer on May 06, 2018, 05:55:19 PM
Matthew 16:13-20

Jesus asked Simon Peter who he was.  He said you are the Messiah, son of the living god. 

No flesh on Earth told him that but his father in heaven.  Because of that, Peter is known by the Roman Catholic church as the first pope and the key holder to heaven.  What he binds on Earth, heaven will also binds. 

Jesus also tells his disciples no to tell anyone that he is the Messiah.

Messiah doesn't mean God. Messiah means God annointed king or priest.  David was both.
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: Yengimer on May 06, 2018, 05:57:37 PM
Please dude, stop  ;D. No more ideas from their theology. Their belief are giving me migraine.

(https://memegenerator.net/img/images/1121819.jpg)

This is why I hop on the magic carpet and flew the hell out of there. That's because I receive a sign and a dream telling me to get away from them or else I'll end up having a curse of 666 on my forehead. When I die, I'll be among them vomit out of God's mouth when he reveal our inequity for mocking him. Good thing I haven't been baptized in water at their kingdom hall. Before I went into their congregation, I receive a dream about being baptized in water and being exorcised by men like the speaker or a pastor will not lead to salvation. Only Jesus Christ can.

 :2funny: Hey I'm just replying to what you said because I don't want to mispresent Jehovah Witness.

I try to be open and see it from all perspectives.
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: Yengimer on May 09, 2018, 07:37:16 PM
There's a passage where Jesus claim to be God or equal to the Father and the Pharasee picked up stones to stoned Him.

Jesus answered them: "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are "gods"?

This is a quote from Psalms 82:6 "I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'

Does anybody have a clear explanation for this?

Also, when the Jews asked Jesus who He is, and they say "you are the son the David".

Mat 22:41  While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
Mat 22:42  "What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?" "The son of David," they replied.
Mat 22:43  He said to them, "How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him 'Lord'? For he says,
Mat 22:44  " 'The Lord said to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet." '
Mat 22:45  If then David calls him 'Lord,' how can he be his son?"
Mat 22:46  No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.

This quote comes from Psalm 110:1: "The LORD says to my lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."

My understanding is that David calls Jesus his master, not God. The word "Lord" means master.

What's your understanding of these two passages?

These are probably some of the passages that Jehovah Witness used.
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: DuMa on May 09, 2018, 08:46:10 PM
There's a passage where Jesus claim to be God or equal to the Father and the Pharasee picked up stones to stoned Him.

Jesus answered them: "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are "gods"?

This is a quote from Psalms 82:6 "I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'

Does anybody have a clear explanation for this?

Also, when the Jews asked Jesus who He is, and they say "you are the son the David".

Mat 22:41  While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
Mat 22:42  "What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?" "The son of David," they replied.
Mat 22:43  He said to them, "How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him 'Lord'? For he says,
Mat 22:44  " 'The Lord said to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet." '
Mat 22:45  If then David calls him 'Lord,' how can he be his son?"
Mat 22:46  No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.

This quote comes from Psalm 110:1: "The LORD says to my lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."

My understanding is that David calls Jesus his master, not God. The word "Lord" means master.

What's your understanding of these two passages?

These are probably some of the passages that Jehovah Witness used.

David is of the old testament and Jesus'Christ is of the new so David never saw Jesus however, David saw and declared that Jesus is his Lord or master. 

We only see the name Jesus Christ in the new testament as he took on human form as is correct that he came from the line of King David.  What the Jews were doing is declaring that the Messiah is a son of King David.  Jesus reminded them that how can it be if David himself called this Messiah his Lord or master?

The Jews are looking for an earthly guy while Jesus reminded them that he is also of the spirit.  If Jesus is god or Lord then he was already there from the beginning as in the beginning, there was the word and Jesus is also known as the word.  It just that he took on a different form and this is what the Jews are missing. 

They got stucked so they don't dare to test Jesus from that point on. 
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: Yengimer on May 09, 2018, 10:11:51 PM
David is of the old testament and Jesus'Christ is of the new so David never saw Jesus however, David saw and declared that Jesus is his Lord or master. 

We only see the name Jesus Christ in the new testament as he took on human form as is correct that he came from the line of King David.  What the Jews were doing is declaring that the Messiah is a son of King David.  Jesus reminded them that how can it be if David himself called this Messiah his Lord or master?

The Jews are looking for an earthly guy while Jesus reminded them that he is also of the spirit.  If Jesus is god or Lord then he was already there from the beginning as in the beginning, there was the word and Jesus is also known as the word.  It just that he took on a different form and this is what the Jews are missing. 

They got stucked so they don't dare to test Jesus from that point on.

Good point. I think Jesus is the "son of David" while not physically descendant, but by his adopted father Joseph. Adoption still counts, and Joseph is descendant from King David.

I am still puzzled about Mary's genealogy though. Remember Jesus still has a blood line through her mother Mary. We're told she's Elizabeth's cousin who is from the tribe of Levi since her husband Zachariah is a priest and it's common for people to married their own tribe. If she and Mary are both cousins & she's from tribe of Levi, I'm assume Mary is also from the tribe of Levi?
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: Yengimer on May 09, 2018, 10:52:07 PM
What about this passage.

Mark 10:17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
Mark 10:18 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.
Mark 10:19 You know the commandments: 'You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.' "
Mark 10:20 "Teacher," he declared, "all these I have kept since I was a boy."
Mark 10:21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
Mark 10:22 At this the man's face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.
Mark 10:23 Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!"
Mark 10:24 The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, "Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God!
Mark 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for the rich to enter the kingdom of God."
Mark 10:26 The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, "Who then can be saved?"
Mark 10:27 Jesus looked at them and said, "With human beings this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God."
Mark 10:28 Then Peter spoke up, "We have left everything to follow you!"
Mark 10:29 "Truly I tell you," Jesus replied, "no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel
Mark 10:30 will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields--along with persecutions--and in the age to come eternal life.
Mark 10:31 But many who are first will be last, and the last first."

After carefully examined this passage it appears the Rich man understood Jesus. He started out saying "good teacher" but after Jesus corrected him, he said "teacher" only (verse 20.)

What are your guys thoughts on this?
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: DuMa on May 10, 2018, 04:41:41 AM
Good point. I think Jesus is the "son of David" while not physically descendant, but by his adopted father Joseph. Adoption still counts, and Joseph is descendant from King David.

I am still puzzled about Mary's genealogy though. Remember Jesus still has a blood line through her mother Mary. We're told she's Elizabeth's cousin who is from the tribe of Levi since her husband Zachariah is a priest and it's common for people to married their own tribe. If she and Mary are both cousins & she's from tribe of Levi, I'm assume Mary is also from the tribe of Levi?

Mary came from the Levi side who came from Nathan, the son of King David. 

Joseph came from the other son Solomon. 

Mary's mom came from Levi who came from Aaron thus puts the connection that jesus Christ came from a line of a priest. 

Matthew's writing was to the Jews and to show them that through Joseph, Jesus came from the King David line. 

Luke on the other hand was written to the Greek which emphasis the king David line plus beyond how it traces back to Adam and god.  His focus is to show that Jesus is the redemption that will save all mankind tracing it all the way back to Adam. 

Key points to remember.  Jewish custom omit female names from genology.  Mary was included only because her parents had her as the only child.  Some may argue that Luke is also written with Joseph in mind since it was established that Joseph is indeed from the line of David.  Well if that is the case then both Matthew's and Luke genology should be the same.  We find that it is until it gets split after king David.  This to me shows that one guy is showing Joseph's line while the other shows unknown person's line.  You can debate who this other person is but to me, the only person closest I can relate to is Mary the biological mom of Jesus Christ which shows him coming from the line of royalty. 

One last thing I wanted to point out.  Do notice which genology line is the better line.  One line ran from Solomon to Joseph, the other from Nathan to Mary.  There is a purpose to see a distinction here.  The people coming from Solomon, including himself have issues.  The people coming from Nathan are pure.  If you are god to be born, which sperm line would you rather be in?  This is important to know and perhaps why Jesus should be born of a virgin to stay pure himself.  That pure line is the only one that traces back to Adam and back to god. 

So is Jesus god?  From genology of God and ends with God.  Check mate. 



Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: DuMa on May 10, 2018, 04:52:14 AM
What about this passage.

Mark 10:17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
Mark 10:18 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.
Mark 10:19 You know the commandments: 'You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.' "
Mark 10:20 "Teacher," he declared, "all these I have kept since I was a boy."
Mark 10:21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
Mark 10:22 At this the man's face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.
Mark 10:23 Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!"
Mark 10:24 The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, "Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God!
Mark 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for the rich to enter the kingdom of God."
Mark 10:26 The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, "Who then can be saved?"
Mark 10:27 Jesus looked at them and said, "With human beings this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God."
Mark 10:28 Then Peter spoke up, "We have left everything to follow you!"
Mark 10:29 "Truly I tell you," Jesus replied, "no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel
Mark 10:30 will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields--along with persecutions--and in the age to come eternal life.
Mark 10:31 But many who are first will be last, and the last first."

After carefully examined this passage it appears the Rich man understood Jesus. He started out saying "good teacher" but after Jesus corrected him, he said "teacher" only (verse 20.)

What are your guys thoughts on this?

There are plenty of areas in the ot where he seems to deny his godly stance. 

From what I think I know, he is god in the flesh as Jesus Christ.  He is also human as we saw him bleeding and suffering like a mortal on the cross.  Because of this, he does not want to be seen as the god just yet. 

Reference to the scene before his resurrection when he appears to his disciples and one of them realized that it was him and wanted to hug him but he told dude not to touch him as he is not yet morphed to that super sain level just yet.  When you are human, you are still constraints of the human laws if nature.  If this is so, you are not yet a god for God is beyond the realm of all constraints. 

Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: Yengimer on May 13, 2018, 03:09:41 AM
Mary came from the Levi side who came from Nathan, the son of King David. 

Joseph came from the other son Solomon. 

Mary's mom came from Levi who came from Aaron thus puts the connection that jesus Christ came from a line of a priest. 

Matthew's writing was to the Jews and to show them that through Joseph, Jesus came from the King David line. 

Luke on the other hand was written to the Greek which emphasis the king David line plus beyond how it traces back to Adam and god.  His focus is to show that Jesus is the redemption that will save all mankind tracing it all the way back to Adam. 

Key points to remember.  Jewish custom omit female names from genology.  Mary was included only because her parents had her as the only child.  Some may argue that Luke is also written with Joseph in mind since it was established that Joseph is indeed from the line of David. Well if that is the case then both Matthew's and Luke genology should be the same.  We find that it is until it gets split after king David.This to me shows that one guy is showing Joseph's line while the other shows unknown person's line.  You can debate who this other person is but to me, the only person closest I can relate to is Mary the biological mom of Jesus Christ which shows him coming from the line of royalty. 

One last thing I wanted to point out.  Do notice which genology line is the better line.  One line ran from Solomon to Joseph, the other from Nathan to Mary.  There is a purpose to see a distinction here.  The people coming from Solomon, including himself have issues.  The people coming from Nathan are pure.  If you are god to be born, which sperm line would you rather be in?  This is important to know and perhaps why Jesus should be born of a virgin to stay pure himself.  That pure line is the only one that traces back to Adam and back to god.


It is possible that both are Josephs as per your explanation. It is also possible that one is Joseph and the other is Mary's because of omitting.

So is Jesus god?  From genology of God and ends with God.  Check mate.

I think the genealogy is great to show Jesus as the Messiah, but it's not good to use it to show as God.
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: DuMa on May 13, 2018, 10:17:48 PM



 

It is possible that both are Josephs as per your explanation. It is also possible that one is Joseph and the other is Mary's because of omitting.

I think the genealogy is great to show Jesus as the Messiah, but it's not good to use it to show as God.


After jesus died and before his resurrection, he appears to Thomas.  Thomas did not believe that it was Jesus so Jesus told him to touch his wounds. 

Right and then, Thomas believed and said my Lord and my God.

Now if we know Jesus, he is a teacher, a preacher and what does he normally do?  He corrects people.  Why did he not corrected Thomas?  Unless he is.   
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: Visualmon on May 14, 2018, 01:15:31 AM
If y'all wanna know if Jesus is God then the question should be "Have you met him in person?" other than getting info from the bible.  :2funny: :2funny:
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: DuMa on May 14, 2018, 02:45:11 AM
If y'all wanna know if Jesus is God then the question should be "Have you met him in person?" other than getting info from the bible.  :2funny: :2funny:

They believed in a dead man of the past and that is why it is so interesting. 

Either there is some truth in it or this religion, this God is that powerful that he she it still flourished after the hype is over. 
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: Yengimer on May 14, 2018, 07:52:25 AM

After jesus died and before his resurrection, he appears to Thomas.  Thomas did not believe that it was Jesus so Jesus told him to touch his wounds. 

Right and then, Thomas believed and said my Lord and my God.

Now if we know Jesus, he is a teacher, a preacher and what does he normally do?  He corrects people.  Why did he not corrected Thomas?  Unless he is.

Right... the JW will say my Lord referring to Jesus and my God referring to the Father.  :2funny:

Paul even says in 1 Corinthians 8:6 "yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live."

So God, the Father, is distinguish from the one Lord, Jesus Christ.

Also remember, it is God who made Jesus Lord.
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: Yengimer on May 14, 2018, 11:35:10 AM
lol

is jesus aka the hmong yer shao???
or muslim, allah?
gotta be shiva from hindi

oh wait
there too many gods

how do i know which god is right

lol

i just do what people say and tell me

I don't know if they are the same. Do you have any article or reference we can compare yer shao to Jesus? Start there.

Regarding Allah, that's been done before.
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: DuMa on May 14, 2018, 11:47:05 AM
Right... the JW will say my Lord referring to Jesus and my God referring to the Father.  :2funny:

Paul even says in 1 Corinthians 8:6 "yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live."

So God, the Father, is distinguish from the one Lord, Jesus Christ.

Also remember, it is God who made Jesus Lord.

There are a bunch of references where the god of the old testament is spoken like Jesus of the new testament.

I'm not on my computer but this is a start. 

In Isaiah 44:6, the LORD (Yahweh) refers to himself as “the First and the Last”. In Revelation 1:8 and 17, Jesus similarly refers to himself as “the Alpha and the Omega” and “the First and the Last”.

https://margmowczko.com/proving-that-jesus-is-god-from-the-old-testament/
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: hmgROCK on May 14, 2018, 01:18:35 PM
I don't know if they are the same. Do you have any article or reference we can compare yer shao to Jesus? Start there.

Regarding Allah, that's been done before.

Lol

Zeus is a god
Don’t see people talking about him nowadays
Funny
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: Yengimer on May 14, 2018, 02:00:29 PM
There are a bunch of references where the god of the old testament is spoken like Jesus of the new testament.

I'm not on my computer but this is a start. 

In Isaiah 44:6, the LORD (Yahweh) refers to himself as “the First and the Last”. In Revelation 1:8 and 17, Jesus similarly refers to himself as “the Alpha and the Omega” and “the First and the Last”.

https://margmowczko.com/proving-that-jesus-is-god-from-the-old-testament/

While I do believe the Bible is inspired, I also try look at it from a translation process.

It goes something like this if I remember the history behind it. Some Jews translated the OT Hebrew into the Greek known as the Septuagint, and when they did this, they took
what belongs to Yahweh and attributed it to Christ. I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the topic, but I have a feeling it's a similar situation here. Do correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: DuMa on May 14, 2018, 02:23:50 PM
While I do believe the Bible is inspired, I also try look at it from a translation process.

It goes something like this if I remember the history behind it. Some Jews translated the OT Hebrew into the Greek known as the Septuagint, and when they did this, they took
what belongs to Yahweh and attributed it to Christ. I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the topic, but I have a feeling it's a similar situation here. Do correct me if I'm wrong.

It is who he say he is or that he's verse in the old testament since he too had to learn it for he is still a Jew.  Once learned, one can receive what the god of the old testament saids. 

But if that is the case, why did Jesus not get prosecuted by the old testament god? 

Somewhere in the new testament that shows what's being translated must be accurate.  So those who translate must be smart and educated because not all can read and write plus they must have money cuz a paper and pen at the time isn't cheap either.  What is being translated is accurate but later on, words lose it's meaning through many other prints of translation.  Does it makes a difference? Absolutely.  Like some says heaven when other says paradise.  Contradictory?  Looks like it but the culprit is the wording through translation that is being falsely representing. 
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: Visualmon on May 15, 2018, 03:24:20 AM
What about this passage.

Mark 10:17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
Mark 10:18 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.
Mark 10:19 You know the commandments: 'You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.' "
Mark 10:20 "Teacher," he declared, "all these I have kept since I was a boy."
Mark 10:21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
Mark 10:22 At this the man's face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.
Mark 10:23 Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!"
Mark 10:24 The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, "Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God!
Mark 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for the rich to enter the kingdom of God."
Mark 10:26 The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, "Who then can be saved?"
Mark 10:27 Jesus looked at them and said, "With human beings this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God."
Mark 10:28 Then Peter spoke up, "We have left everything to follow you!"
Mark 10:29 "Truly I tell you," Jesus replied, "no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel
Mark 10:30 will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields--along with persecutions--and in the age to come eternal life.
Mark 10:31 But many who are first will be last, and the last first."

After carefully examined this passage it appears the Rich man understood Jesus. He started out saying "good teacher" but after Jesus corrected him, he said "teacher" only (verse 20.)

What are your guys thoughts on this?

I'm sure JW don't understand what verse 25 and verse 29 really mean. So they just pause and think then create a false scenario for us to fall for.   ;D ;D

Like I said earlier the fake read the passages from the bible claiming they know Jesus and his father but haven't met them in person or Jesus haven't manifest himself in front of them. The book itself portray that the disciples TRULY met Jesus including the Jews and Greek, not those 21 century buffoons.  ::)
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: Yengimer on May 15, 2018, 09:41:00 AM
It is who he say he is or that he's verse in the old testament since he too had to learn it for he is still a Jew.  Once learned, one can receive what the god of the old testament saids. 

But if that is the case, why did Jesus not get prosecuted by the old testament god? 

Somewhere in the new testament that shows what's being translated must be accurate.  So those who translate must be smart and educated because not all can read and write plus they must have money cuz a paper and pen at the time isn't cheap either.  What is being translated is accurate but later on, words lose it's meaning through many other prints of translation.  Does it makes a difference? Absolutely.  Like some says heaven when other says paradise.  Contradictory?  Looks like it but the culprit is the wording through translation that is being falsely representing.

I'm not sure about that. It may or it may not.

Let's look at a different example. The translator or Matthew would have mistranslated the prophecy in Isaiah regarding the young woman.
In the Hebrew it would be Almah. If Isaiah wanted it to be a virgin, he or the author would have it say betulah.  How do we know this? Look up the Hebrew Text and see what it says, then do a word search and see what it mean. You'll find that most modern bible render it virgin which is wrong.

What do you think about this?
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: Yengimer on May 15, 2018, 06:19:23 PM
It is who he say he is or that he's verse in the old testament since he too had to learn it for he is still a Jew.  Once learned, one can receive what the god of the old testament saids. 

But if that is the case, why did Jesus not get prosecuted by the old testament god? 

Somewhere in the new testament that shows what's being translated must be accurate.  So those who translate must be smart and educated because not all can read and write plus they must have money cuz a paper and pen at the time isn't cheap either.  What is being translated is accurate but later on, words lose it's meaning through many other prints of translation.  Does it makes a difference? Absolutely.  Like some says heaven when other says paradise.  Contradictory?  Looks like it but the culprit is the wording through translation that is being falsely representing.

Revelation is written only in Greek. You can't find it at another language.

Isaiah 44:6  οὕτως λέγει ὁ θεὸς ὁ βασιλεὺς τοῦ Ισραηλ ὁ ῥυσάμενος αὐτὸν θεὸς σαβαωθ ἐγὼ πρῶτος καὶ ἐγὼ μετὰ ταῦτα πλὴν ἐμοῦ οὐκ ἔστιν θεός
Revelation 1:17  Καὶ ὅτε εἶδον αὐτόν ἔπεσα πρὸς τοὺς πόδας αὐτοῦ ὡς νεκρός καὶ ἐπέθηκεν τὴν δεξιὰν αὐτοῦ χεῖρα ἐπ᾽ ἐμὲ λέγων μοι Μὴ φοβοῦ ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ πρῶτος καὶ ὁ ἔσχατος

So at Isaiah says besides me there is no other God,  right? What does the "last" means?

There's also Isaiah 41:4 and 48:12. Check those too. Because if Jesus is talking about Himself then he talks in other passages as well. ;)
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: Visualmon on May 16, 2018, 06:00:37 AM
Check out this Asian guy's video down below. He's freaking hilarious. I can't believe what am I hearing. :2funny:  :idiot2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTWLTYT7KYI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTWLTYT7KYI)

Vision, dream, and signs suppose to help people avoid Satan and his diabolical power, not attracting to him. A short summary about my true story: there's a time I almost literally died from dehydration and heat because I was stupid enough think that my faith can save me by walking five miles under the hot sun. What shun me from dying was that an angel send me a sign. A sign of birds died lying on concrete sidewalk. Each time I walk few yards I kept seeing a dead bird lay dead. I thought and thought what is it means? What really means is that I will eventually died on the same spot where the birds were if I don't heed the warning. I actually ignore the warning and learned my lesson really well.

Dr. Gene Kim's point of views don't make absolute sense. To me, it's obvious contradiction to his belief. Let me correct him: clearly there's a passage in the bible where Jesus rebukes against the Pharisees when they assume his miracles were part of devil's works and he states, "How can the devil divide himself?" Yeah! What kind of fawkery is that, you hypocrite?  :idiot2: :2funny:
Title: Re: Is Jesus God?
Post by: Believe_N_Me on May 30, 2018, 10:54:09 PM
The Jews reject Jesus because the Messiah to them is not a spiritual leader nor a leader with supernatural powers. They are looking out for a political leader like King David. Jesus does not meet their criteria for the Messiah.