PebHmong Discussion Forum
General Category => Hmong Culture & History => Topic started by: zena on October 05, 2016, 11:07:51 AM
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Is anyone worried that the Hmong culture will lose its true essence because no one is documenting its language, fashion, food, history, etc.? We only have pieces of things and a lot of times Hmong will only believe what they want to believe. I see a lot of assimilated Hmong who still believe their last name's better than others who believe they follow the culture to a T who are also educated and do a lot of American things. But, that's not the true nature of the Hmong culture. It is an evolutionized one. A better one, I might add. But, the true essence of it is truly lost when you become modernized. Where would my kids find the true Hmong if they were interested in researching it sometime in their adult lives? Will it not exist?
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Is anyone worried that the Hmong culture will lose its true essence because no one is documenting its language, fashion, food, history, etc.? We only have pieces of things and a lot of times Hmong will only believe what they want to believe. I see a lot of assimilated Hmong who still believe their last name's better than others who believe they follow the culture to a T who are also educated and do a lot of American things. But, that's not the true nature of the Hmong culture. It is an evolutionized one. A better one, I might add. But, the true essence of it is truly lost when you become modernized. Where would my kids find the true Hmong if they were interested in researching it sometime in their adult lives? Will it not exist?
I'm surprised you even bring this up here. I recall you said something about being meska and not like your father's father. That's pretty much what it comes down to that determines the future of the Hmong.
Personally, I don't care about Hmong people any more because most think that Hmong culture and it's beliefs are too backward and they only need to be meska.
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You want to see hmong? You go to hmong new year. The day that you guys stop doing that even is the day that the hmong culture will take a back seat with the american indians. At least with them tribes, the usa government pays tribute to. With the hmong, you guys are on your own. Secret war is no war according to them.
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You want to see hmong? You go to hmong new year. The day that you guys stop doing that even is the day that the hmong culture will take a back seat with the american indians. At least with them tribes, the usa government pays tribute to. With the hmong, you guys are on your own. Secret war is no war according to them.
New year is important but nowadays it has become a perverted event where whom ever hosts/runs the new year expects to make $$$ from people. That can die because it services no purpose. New Year isn't an exclusive or a unique event that only belong to the Hmong. Every ethnic in the world has the same idea.
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New year is important but nowadays it has become a perverted event where whom ever hosts/runs the new year expects to make $$$ from people. That can die because it services no purpose. New Year isn't an exclusive or a unique event that only belong to the Hmong. Every ethnic in the world has the same idea.
But not every ethnic in the world celebrate the same way. This is the thing about culture. Different cultures celebrate events differently, whether it's marriage, holidays, funerals etc.
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Is anyone worried that the Hmong culture will lose its true essence because no one is documenting its language, fashion, food, history, etc.? We only have pieces of things and a lot of times Hmong will only believe what they want to believe. I see a lot of assimilated Hmong who still believe their last name's better than others who believe they follow the culture to a T who are also educated and do a lot of American things. But, that's not the true nature of the Hmong culture. It is an evolutionized one. A better one, I might add. But, the true essence of it is truly lost when you become modernized. Where would my kids find the true Hmong if they were interested in researching it sometime in their adult lives? Will it not exist?
I think upgrading technology doesn't mean we're abandoning culture. Going from the Hmong knife in the kitchen to something more modern yet still making Hmong food for example. I do hope that someone documents our culture. I also still see the old Hmong mentality where it's not even just last name, it's also family. Where people will not share cultural knowledge unless you were from the same lineage regardless of last name.
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Is anyone worried that the Hmong culture will lose its true essence because no one is documenting its language, fashion, food, history, etc.? We only have pieces of things and a lot of times Hmong will only believe what they want to believe. I see a lot of assimilated Hmong who still believe their last name's better than others who believe they follow the culture to a T who are also educated and do a lot of American things. But, that's not the true nature of the Hmong culture. It is an evolutionized one. A better one, I might add. But, the true essence of it is truly lost when you become modernized. Where would my kids find the true Hmong if they were interested in researching it sometime in their adult lives? Will it not exist?
I'm not worried about the bad aspects being gone and it should be gone in this day and age i.e., forcing girls to marry someone they don't care about but I do have some concerns that the good aspects might be forgotten by the generations to come like our language...
There are good and bad in just about every culture so letting go of the bad is cool but losing the good is not so cool..
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But not every ethnic in the world celebrate the same way. This is the thing about culture. Different cultures celebrate events differently, whether it's marriage, holidays, funerals etc.
Yes, different people celebrate differently but the idea of celebration are the same.
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I'm surprised you even bring this up here. I recall you said something about being meska and not like your father's father. That's pretty much what it comes down to that determines the future of the Hmong.
Personally, I don't care about Hmong people any more because most think that Hmong culture and it's beliefs are too backward and they only need to be meska.
You're confusing two different topics. The one about not being like your parents was to help someone understand that they are different and so they have to understand that the girl they want to be with will also be different. This topic is about keeping the true identity of what being a Hmong was.
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You want to see hmong? You go to hmong new year. The day that you guys stop doing that even is the day that the hmong culture will take a back seat with the american indians. At least with them tribes, the usa government pays tribute to. With the hmong, you guys are on your own. Secret war is no war according to them.
It's not about me. I grew up in the culture. I know what it's like. When I take my kids to the Hmong New Year (and I do it every year, btw), it is not the same way I had experienced it. My dad threw the very first Hmong New Year in CO back in the 80's. He was the president of the Hmong community at the time and I believe he was also the first one. I digress.
You are going all over the place and missing the topic. The question was are you worried? Does it matter at all that the language and food and fashion changes and what was before will never be again and is that acceptable? Does no one really care or is there a community that is working on keeping the essence, the true identity, of what the culture is?
Just curious. I'm not trying to get a straight answer. Just wondering if anyone else is also wondering what I'm wondering.
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I think upgrading technology doesn't mean we're abandoning culture. Going from the Hmong knife in the kitchen to something more modern yet still making Hmong food for example. I do hope that someone documents our culture. I also still see the old Hmong mentality where it's not even just last name, it's also family. Where people will not share cultural knowledge unless you were from the same lineage regardless of last name.
In the bold, exactly.
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I'm not worried about the bad aspects being gone and it should be gone in this day and age i.e., forcing girls to marry someone they don't care about but I do have some concerns that the good aspects might be forgotten by the generations to come like our language...
There are good and bad in just about every culture so letting go of the bad is cool but losing the good is not so cool..
As I mentioned, I like the modernized Hmong. I think it's great. But, I would want the bad to be documented too to get the real culture recorded. For instance, the Chinese culture, they have it recorded way back during the dynasties and include the good, the bad, and the ugly. It's fun learning their culture because it's not just all good things, it's everything so you can see what kind of people they are. Of course because the Hmong's documents were burned during one of the dynasties, there isn't much, but I'm wondering if anyone is actually recording it for the future generations of people.
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our culture will still be intact even if the practices differ from the original procedures, just as long as we don't lose identity (proud to proclaim hmong).
i'm more concerned with ethnic cleansing, our beautiful women taken by other men.
How do you know the culture will still be intact? What are Hmong people doing that still holds the essence of what it is to be Hmong? And what is a Hmong identity? What was the identity back then and what is it now?
Why are you concerned by ethnic cleansing when we live in a free world and anyone can choose who they want to be with? Now, if a group of other race came into the Hmong community and killed off the men and mated with all the girls, I can see ethnic cleansing in that. But, that's just not happening.
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Why are you concerned by ethnic cleansing when we live in a free world and anyone can choose who they want to be with? Now, if a group of other race came into the Hmong community and killed off the men and mated with all the girls, I can see ethnic cleansing in that. But, that's just not happening.
Some still don't believe that women should have the right to "choose" so they make up stuff to make it sound like women that married/date out of race/ethic group were forced to or tried guilt tripped them ...And I've seen that baseless view coming from White, Black, Hmong, etc., people...
I remembered back in Laos, a Hmong women married a Laotian and the community was giving her hard time too...saying things like having "half breed" children is not good, she's "no longer Hmong", or she thinks she's "too good to be Hmong" among other nonsense... :idiot2:
I am happy to see Hmong women able to empowered themselves here by exercising their right to choose vs. the ones that were oppressed and got treated like dirt/second class citizens where they had no say in the matter.. O0
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Nope I am not worry. Everyone has their own view of Hmong culture. I have my own view of Hmong culture. There is no single or right culture. If you were to pay attention to Hmong history you see there is a change in Hmong culture. Even during your grandpappy days. What people desire is to not feel awkward when other learns the Hmong culture. Who know one day we can make Non-Hmong son-in-law kowtow when marry our Hmong women. :2funny: :2funny: :2funny:
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How do we even know that the Hmong culture being practice today or even 50 years ago in Laos is true Hmong. The Hmong are known to blend other culture into theirs...
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Moonangel, Can you still go back to start over so your kids can really be Hmong? Lol
Being Hmong isn't documenting. It's practicing the traditions that are deemed to be Hmong. Knowing about is different from doing it.
But let's not close our minds like the majority of Americans are doing. Let's keep in mind that the 300,000 Hmong in America aren't the only Hmong in the world. If your three kids want to research Hmong, live the Hmong life, they should go to southern China, even the hills of Laos and Thailand. They are not Americanized there.
Is anyone worried that the Hmong culture will lose its true essence because no one is documenting its language, fashion, food, history, etc.? We only have pieces of things and a lot of times Hmong will only believe what they want to believe. I see a lot of assimilated Hmong who still believe their last name's better than others who believe they follow the culture to a T who are also educated and do a lot of American things. But, that's not the true nature of the Hmong culture. It is an evolutionized one. A better one, I might add. But, the true essence of it is truly lost when you become modernized. Where would my kids find the true Hmong if they were interested in researching it sometime in their adult lives? Will it not exist?
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Good example. Being Hmong doesn't mean we have to use the sickle to harvest our rice every year. Another more advanced tool can do, and we would still be just as Hmong.
I think upgrading technology doesn't mean we're abandoning culture. Going from the Hmong knife in the kitchen to something more modern yet still making Hmong food for example. I do hope that someone documents our culture. I also still see the old Hmong mentality where it's not even just last name, it's also family. Where people will not share cultural knowledge unless you were from the same lineage regardless of last name.
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That's a nice delusional thought to comfort kids, but realistically the culture has been preserved for centuries because our ancestor live exclusively out high in the mountain away from progressing society influence. Nowadays is different where Hmong must strive to compete with other men to maintain and preserve Hmong identity and practices, and Hmong men are on the loosing end considering more Hmong women no longer deemed them attractive in terms of wealth and prosperity.
Good man. you see and pretty much understand.
Whereas some of the other posters need clarity.
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Is anyone worried that the Hmong culture will lose its true essence because no one is documenting its language, fashion, food, history, etc.? We only have pieces of things and a lot of times Hmong will only believe what they want to believe. I see a lot of assimilated Hmong who still believe their last name's better than others who believe they follow the culture to a T who are also educated and do a lot of American things. But, that's not the true nature of the Hmong culture. It is an evolutionized one. A better one, I might add. But, the true essence of it is truly lost when you become modernized. Where would my kids find the true Hmong if they were interested in researching it sometime in their adult lives? Will it not exist?
Then why are you a christian?,,, As that's very anti-Hmong culture, and thus anti-Hmong integrity of being.
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Well. In order to preserve it, you have to be able to change mentalities. We live in a different world where we're experiencing different ways of life so we're bound to want to create change as we see fit. Sometimes it's bad, sometimes it's good. Hmong people tend to believe this "all or nothing" mentality when it comes to culture and all. Any criticism is regarded as hate speech. If we can change the negative stuff (forced marriage, etc.) and find ways to improve the image to be more positive, then it could work. But to alot, it's all or nothing. I attribute that to being blind followers, refusing to accept change and just sticking to "tradition."
You're right and it's unfortunate.
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Some still don't believe that women should have the right to "choose" so they make up stuff to make it sound like women that married/date out of race/ethic group were forced to or tried guilt tripped them ...And I've seen that baseless view coming from White, Black, Hmong, etc., people...
I remembered back in Laos, a Hmong women married a Laotian and the community was giving her hard time too...saying things like having "half breed" children is not good, she's "no longer Hmong", or she thinks she's "too good to be Hmong" among other nonsense... :idiot2:
I am happy to see Hmong women able to empowered themselves here by exercising their right to choose vs. the ones that were oppressed and got treated like dirt/second class citizens where they had no say in the matter.. O0
It's good to see that you see how some Hmong women are being treated. Modernization for the Hmong still have a long ways to go but I'm sure just like the American culture, a Hmong woman or some Hmong women will eventually stand up to being treated less.
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our culture has been in the practice for thousands of years, it will not disappear into the night. how do i know it will still be intact? if one acknowledges to be hmong, they will do whatever hmong do, in respect to funerals, weddings, spiritual callings, and even new year celebrations. don't be like theking who claims to be chinese...:idiot2: :2funny: :2funny: j/k, man... but that's where one would have a lost of identity and lost of culture (self outcast).
not denying anyone of their freedom nor is ethnic cleansing killing off the hmong men...however, when others mate with our women, hmong men are denied purity. it's a baseless argument...jus t making fun.
No one said it will disappear at all. It's simply changing quickly. I see a lot of young Hmong kids not able to speak Hmong and it made me think about the lost of the culture. I teach them that they have to learn the language first and foremost because communication is key to continue something.
If you are not denying anyone their freedom then there's no issue.
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That's a nice delusional thought to comfort kids, but realistically the culture has been preserved for centuries because our ancestor live exclusively out high in the mountain away from progressing society influence. Nowadays is different where Hmong must strive to compete with other men to maintain and preserve Hmong identity and practices, and Hmong men are on the loosing end considering more Hmong women no longer deemed them attractive in terms of wealth and prosperity.
I hope that they are preserving on paper and photos so that the younger generation will have access to it generations down the road.
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Nope I am not worry. Everyone has their own view of Hmong culture. I have my own view of Hmong culture. There is no single or right culture. If you were to pay attention to Hmong history you see there is a change in Hmong culture. Even during your grandpappy days. What people desire is to not feel awkward when other learns the Hmong culture. Who know one day we can make Non-Hmong son-in-law kowtow when marry our Hmong women. :2funny: :2funny: :2funny:
So what are you going to teach your kids about what Hmong is?
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How do we even know that the Hmong culture being practice today or even 50 years ago in Laos is true Hmong. The Hmong are known to blend other culture into theirs...
Exactly. Hmong have never recorded anything. Thus, I'm curious if anyone has had any idea to record the essence of it.
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Moonangel, Can you still go back to start over so your kids can really be Hmong? Lol
Being Hmong isn't documenting. It's practicing the traditions that are deemed to be Hmong. Knowing about is different from doing it.
But let's not close our minds like the majority of Americans are doing. Let's keep in mind that the 300,000 Hmong in America aren't the only Hmong in the world. If your three kids want to research Hmong, live the Hmong life, they should go to southern China, even the hills of Laos and Thailand. They are not Americanized there.
When my kids are ready to learn about it, I will teach them what I know. But this topic isn't about me or my kids. It's a general question about what is documented out there if anything. I compared it to the Chinese culture. It's ever changing but you can still find the essence of what being a Chinese is.
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Then why are you a christian?,,, As that's very anti-Hmong culture, and thus anti-Hmong integrity of being.
What does religion have anything to do with this topic. You speak as if I chose my faith. Do you realize that I was always a Christian? My mother was a nun in Laos. Do you know why she became a nun? Life was hard on her and she was told that in order to have a good life, she'd have to work for herself. By luck she met my father who was Shaman but he converted because he had a visiting of some sort from God. So, being Christian is all I know as it pertains to religions. Culture-wise, I do know a lot.
And why are you so anti-Christians? I have cousins who are Shaman and I attend the parties and such when I'm invited. I also have friends who are of other religions and I attend whatever event they have when invited. I'm not biased to anyone's faith.
btw, just a reminder, this topic isn't about me. I'm actually asking if it's crosses anyone else's mind how the culture is changing so much and the past is not recorded for the future gens...somethi ng basic that all future gens and go to and say, "this is what Hmong really is."
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It's not about me. I grew up in the culture. I know what it's like. When I take my kids to the Hmong New Year (and I do it every year, btw), it is not the same way I had experienced it. My dad threw the very first Hmong New Year in CO back in the 80's. He was the president of the Hmong community at the time and I believe he was also the first one.
I can beat you!
The NC new year...a long time ago was held in my relatives backyard!!!
We had to go help clear the grass!
Now the place where the current new year is held, we played the first call game there. And it was just grass!
Anyways...yeah its sad "real hmong culture is fastly fading"... a lot of the young folks express no care for it.
And their parents could care less too....
Just like that 20 year old hmong girl I met who couldn't speak or understand hmong...
She said her mom told her she didn't want her to learn or speak hmong....
I was thinking... "wtf"...
You know...folks need to realize no matter how hard they try to distance themselves from hmongs and being hmong or hmong-like.....no matter how good your English is and have no accent....no matter how well you fit in into other cultures and ethnicities... and even if all your friends are non hmong and even your best friends.....
At the end of the day...99 percent of you got almond shaped eyes...brown,black hair...tan skin....you're still hmong...
Yo mom was hmong...dad was hmong...granda d was hmong..grandma was hmong...your parents killed cjickens...cow s...pigs....
You are hmong.
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Moonangel I said I'm worried too!!
Some folks don't even know what this is!!! Folks in here!!!
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l167/DummieBoy/Mobile%20Uploads/tumblr_nauaphlTMz1rq7smco1_500_zpsxeqyzcrr.jpg)
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Moonangel I said I'm worried too!!
Some folks don't even know what this is!!! Folks in here!!!
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l167/DummieBoy/Mobile%20Uploads/tumblr_nauaphlTMz1rq7smco1_500_zpsxeqyzcrr.jpg)
Whether they know or not, that's not a Hmong game so it's not relevant Hmong ID/ tradition/culture...
Kind of like how the group of Hmong men may have won the trophy for the game below but it's not relevant to Hmong history/cuture..:
(http://www.hmoodle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/biomainpix3.jpg)
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Just because someone doesn't want to speak Hmong or they want to speak Hmong but can't, doesn't make them less Hmong than anyone else. Especially true is the fact that just because someone can't speak Hmong, doesn't automatically mean they hate themselves, they hate Hmong, and they are trying to distance themselves.
Also, the fact that you are Hmong doesn't mean you have to revolve your whole life choices and lifestyle around some silly notion of fulfilling some imaginary duty of "making Hmong relevant". Case in point, I don't see how you can judge a group of Hmong men playing basketball and say that what they choose to do on their free time is invalid and a waste of time because it's not relevant to being Hmong.
Especially some of you Hmong girls! After the advancement and progress of Hmong women in this modern society, how can you look at another group and pass judgement and say "That's not Hmong enough." That sure sounds a lot like "You're reading a book. That's not Hmong woman enough. Go serve some drinks or wash dishes." The nerve!
Bottom line, this subject is a joke. It's just like inner-beauty - anyone can say anyone is beautiful and anyone can say that someone is not beautiful with no merit or proper critique.
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Just because someone doesn't want to speak Hmong or they want to speak Hmong but can't, doesn't make them less Hmong than anyone else. Especially true is the fact that just because someone can't speak Hmong, doesn't automatically mean they hate themselves, they hate Hmong, and they are trying to distance themselves.
Also, the fact that you are Hmong doesn't mean you have to revolve your whole life choices and lifestyle around some silly notion of fulfilling some imaginary duty of "making Hmong relevant". Case in point, I don't see how you can judge a group of Hmong men playing basketball and say that what they choose to do on their free time is invalid and a waste of time because it's not relevant to being Hmong.
Especially some of you Hmong girls! After the advancement and progress of Hmong women in this modern society, how can you look at another group and pass judgement and say "That's not Hmong enough." That sure sounds a lot like "You're reading a book. That's not Hmong woman enough. Go serve some drinks or wash dishes." The nerve!
Bottom line, this subject is a joke. It's just like inner-beauty - anyone can say anyone is beautiful and anyone can say that someone is not beautiful with no merit or proper critique.
Every hmong female needs to be house trained on how to wash dishes and bring out water!!
And stay in the kitchen!! Let the men eat at the table!!!
I don't care if they are 8 months pregnant carryinga 1 year old on thier back, they better be doing the laundry and in the rice fields!
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Whether they know or not, that's not a Hmong game so it's not relevant Hmong ID/ tradition/culture...
Kind of like how the group of Hmong men may have won the trophy for the game below but it's not relevant to Hmong history/cuture..:
(http://www.hmoodle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/biomainpix3.jpg)
That is hmong game, you never played it it seems, the rubber band rope game.
Basketball obviously not a hmong game.
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Every hmong female needs to be house trained on how to wash dishes and bring out water!!
And stay in the kitchen!! Let the men eat at the table!!!
I don't care if they are 8 months pregnant carryinga 1 year old on thier back, they better be doing the laundry and in the rice fields!
It's no wonder why some women here don't want to give the "photos" you've been begging for ... ???
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That is hmong game, you never played it it seems, the rubber band rope game.
Basketball obviously not a hmong game.
That "rubber band rope game" is as much a "hmong game" as "Basketball"... ::)
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You want to see hmong? You go to hmong new year. The day that you guys stop doing that even is the day that the hmong culture will take a back seat with the american indians. At least with them tribes, the usa government pays tribute to. With the hmong, you guys are on your own. Secret war is no war according to them.
My husband Meskas veteran clients will agreed with you. They told him don't believed what is taught when it come to History because they only want you to know what they want you to hear. Any veterans who was there experiencing the real life traumatic event will tell you the ugly, bad and good.
Our Hmong veterans are on their own and still fighting hard to get that tributes and respects.... Which is why the Meskas veterans shared with my husband our veterans suffered because....... It sound harsh hearing it but make you see the point that these Meskas veterans know better.....
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Whether they know or not, that's not a Hmong game so it's not relevant Hmong ID/ tradition/culture...
Kind of like how the group of Hmong men may have won the trophy for the game below but it's not relevant to Hmong history/cuture..:
(http://www.hmoodle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/biomainpix3.jpg)
The rubber band game is hmong...go ask your mom or grandma...they would say they played it...
Basketball obviously isn't hmong...
And of course winning that trophy isn't relevant to Hmong culture....why? Duh, they only played in a hmong tournament...a gainst other hmongs...it had no impact on other cultures to make it stand out...or be a "milestone" in the Hmong community...
For example...Jack ie robison...mile stone...broke barriers...
Dynastyle ball team..what barriers did they break?
It's that simple....
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It's no wonder why some women here don't want to give the "photos" you've been begging for ... ???
Oh yeah...I'll make them kill chicken...etc etc...
Better have my food ready when I get home!!
And cook rice the old fashion way!!!
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The rubber band game is hmong...go ask your mom or grandma...they would say they played it...
Basketball obviously isn't hmong...
And of course winning that trophy isn't relevant to Hmong culture....why? Duh, they only played in a hmong tournament...a gainst other hmongs...it had no impact on other cultures to make it stand out...or be a "milestone" in the Hmong community...
For example...Jack ie robison...mile stone...broke barriers...
Dynastyle ball team..what barriers did they break?
It's that simple....
Nope, it's not. The "rubber band rope game" is as much "Hmong" as "Basketball"...check the facts...
Just because your mother/grandmother ate Laotian/Viet/Thai food, doesn't make it Hmong food...
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Some of you are so bias I'm about to puke. How do you know rope jumping is a Hmong game? Because every culture has some form of rope jumping that traces its roots to ancient times. Just because you played a game as a child and your parents and grandparents played it, doesn't make it Hmong property. That's only 200 years you covered. How do you know the game wasn't made by someone else 5,000 years ago?
Case in point, Hmong like talk like top spin is a Hmong game but Hmong aren't the only ones who play top spin. And these guys in this video ain't no lightweight. They pulling off some And1 top spin tricks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLYazynm_1M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLYazynm_1M)
What about soccer? Isn't playing soccer the "Hmong" thing to do? Because the form of soccer as we know today - with standard goals, lines, formations, positions, rules, etc - was made by the English. So anyone who plays it, ain't proud enough of their culture because they're playing an English game? Get real!
Again, it's just a bunch of people who think that their standards are what makes someone Hmong. It's as pathetic as these conservative Americans who thinks buying American-made products and wearing a flag shirt determines how American you are. It's a joke. You're a joke.
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maybe tug of war is a hmong rope game
(http://image.vietnamnews.vn/uploadvnnews/Storage/Images/2015/12/4/01a.jpg?url=Storage/Images/2015/12/4/01a.jpg)
I played this with a bunch of other viet fobs like myself when I was a kid in narleans. Rope made out of rubberband.
(https://bewhereyouareat.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/dsc_0797.jpg?w=645&h=772)
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Some of you are so bias I'm about to puke. How do you know rope jumping is a Hmong game? Because every culture has some form of rope jumping that traces its roots to ancient times. Just because you played a game as a child and your parents and grandparents played it, doesn't make it Hmong property. That's only 200 years you covered. How do you know the game wasn't made by someone else 5,000 years ago?
Case in point, Hmong like talk like top spin is a Hmong game but Hmong aren't the only ones who play top spin. And these guys in this video ain't no lightweight. They pulling off some And1 top spin tricks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLYazynm_1M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLYazynm_1M)
What about soccer? Isn't playing soccer the "Hmong" thing to do? Because the form of soccer as we know today - with standard goals, lines, formations, positions, rules, etc - was made by the English. So anyone who plays it, ain't proud enough of their culture because they're playing an English game? Get real!
Again, it's just a bunch of people who think that their standards are what makes someone Hmong. It's as pathetic as these conservative Americans who thinks buying American-made products and wearing a flag shirt determines how American you are. It's a joke. You're a joke.
This!
I played this with a bunch of other viet fobs like myself when I was a kid in narleans. Rope made out of rubberband.
(https://bewhereyouareat.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/dsc_0797.jpg?w=645&h=772)
And this!
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And...accordin g to your logic...
Bow and arrows must not be part of native american culture becuase the whole eastern hemisphere documented it first right?
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Certain tribes in africa hunt with spears today...
But i guess that is not part of thier culture since its well documented in cave paintings in europe early cavemen hunting with spears...
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And...according to your logic...
Bow and arrows must not be part of native american culture becuase the whole eastern hemisphere documented it first right?
Nope, we are saying something is NOT part of your culture/history/ID when you borrowed it from another culture whether it be "rubber band rope game" or "basketball"...or "soccer" or...
You do know that the "native american" migrated from Asia don't you?? You know the large area on the map that is part of the "eastern hemisphere"... ???
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Nope, we are saying something is NOT part of your culture/history/ID when you borrowed it from another culture whether it be "rubber band rope game" or "basketball"...or "soccer" or...
You do know that the "native american" migrated from Asia don't you?? You know the large area on the map that is part of the "eastern hemisphere"... ???
So you're basically saying the bow and arrow was invented prior to crossing of the ice bridge then....
I'm pretty sure it was invented after that...
But in any case...looks like you might as well be telling g us you are saying we are just cavemens....we are all the same...if you are bringing that all up...
So you're basically saying hmongs are the same as native americans...an d so forth...
White people, black people, asians, we are all the same...
See this is why it's pointless with you...
Any subject, anything, you will keep rationalizing no matter how ridiculous as long as you "win" a debate...becua se you're never wrong in your eyes...
The worst thing is...you fail to realize it.
As I said in the past....
I'm not trying to be mean ....but I really just pity you.
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There was also a point I was trying to make without having to spell it out for you but you couldn't just grasp the concept...
The point is...
Cultures...eve n with no forms of contact with one another may and do develop similar things....whet her it's pyramids, bow and arrows, or even a simple game of jumping over a rubber band rope, just becuase they are similar does not mEan it wasnt "invented" or "discovered" by other cultures as well. And if so...yes that would make it part of that cultures history and culture as well.
D....d.....d.. ..duh!
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@thePoster
This isn't about which culture invented which games or hunting tools. This is about a bunch of Hmong people thinking THEIR standards are what determines who is Hmong and who is a sellout. Don't play rope jump? Not Hmong enough. Don't speak Hmong? Sellout, not Hmong enough. Don't know anything about Hmong funerals or customs? GTFO you're not Hmong. Play basketball? Waste of time, doesn't improve the relevancy of Hmong culture.
Let's use your Native Americans and bow and arrow analogy. If a Native American doesn't carry around a bow and arrow like it's 1500, is he/she still Native? If they don't wear a handmade cow leather thong and prance around in the moonlight doing some traditional dance, are they a sellout? Because if you live in the Midwest, where you actually do see Native Americans, they dress just like everyone else - denim, khakis, t shirts, dress shoes, sneakers, etc. This goes for the tribal lands as well. This doesn't make them sellouts or any less Native than someone else who can speak their language and chooses to dress traditional as much as they can. Would you go up to an Italian- or Irish-American and say, "Yo, you can't speak Italian or Irish. You can't even cook one dish of Italian or Irish food. GTFO you ain't Italian/Irish!" No, you wouldn't. That would be stupid.
For those of you who don't agree with what I'm saying, you're just an elitist thinker and you think you're a hot shot Hmong person when you are wearing denim and drinking your Starbucks just like the rest of us. You just simply think your shiit doesn't stink.
As for cultural items and ideas, every culture has borrowed from others that there is no such thing as pure English culture, pure Hmong culture, or pure whatever culture. Even the Amazonian tribes, the very last people on earth who are having contact with the mainstream world, are using guns to hunt and wearing t shirts and pants and sneakers. This doesn't make them sellouts or no longer Amazon tribes - they are still who they are. If you can't wrap this around your thick head, just look down and tell me what you are wearing right this second. If you are in no underwears and you are not in Hmong pants/skirts, then you are full of shiiit. Enjoy your iced latte, Pepsi, or whatever non-Hmong beverage you are having for lunch. What's for lunch? Sweet rice and laarb, a Laotian dish? McDonald's, perhaps? Subway? It's cool. You're still Hmong regardless.
Like I said, this is ridiculous as inner-beauty. Because anyone can say anything. You wear denim? Not Hmong. You eat papaya salad, a Laotian dish? Not Hmong. You own and drive a car? Not Hmong - Hmong never engineered any vehicle, gas powered or otherwise. You were born in America? Garbage Hmong - real Hmong are born in Asian. You're born in Thailand? Garbage Hmong - real Hmong are born in Guizhou province, China. You were born in 21st Century? Garbage - Hmong born after the year 300AD are no longer Hmong and they just incorporate other cultures.
Do you see the retard snowball effect?
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See this is why it's pointless with you...
Any subject, anything, you will keep rationalizing no matter how ridiculous as long as you "win" a debate...becua se you're never wrong in your eyes...
And you're just "pointless", period!!
No wonder another PH member said your "mindset" is like Trump...
I just go by the facts that the "rubberband rope game" is not a Hmong game, just like basketball is not a Hmong game...Just because Hmong adopt it and play it, doesn't make it a Hmong game...but it's "pointless" with you even after the facts crystal clear..
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There was also a point I was trying to make without having to spell it out for you but you couldn't just grasp the concept...
The point is...
Cultures...eve n with no forms of contact with one another may and do develop similar things....whet her it's pyramids, bow and arrows, or even a simple game of jumping over a rubber band rope, just becuase they are similar does not mEan it wasnt "invented" or "discovered" by other cultures as well. And if so...yes that would make it part of that cultures history and culture as well.
D....d.....d.. ..duh!
But regarless, the Hmong did NOT invent the "rubberband rope game" as they didn't even know what rubberband is until they were exposed to it in Laos and other parts of the world...If you can't handle these simple crystal clear facts, then it's "pointless"...
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Man!! You guys are in for a biggg surprise!
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@thePoster
This isn't about which culture invented which games or hunting tools. This is about a bunch of Hmong people thinking THEIR standards are what determines who is Hmong and who is a sellout. Don't play rope jump? Not Hmong enough. Don't speak Hmong? Sellout, not Hmong enough. Don't know anything about Hmong funerals or customs? GTFO you're not Hmong. Play basketball? Waste of time, doesn't improve the relevancy of Hmong culture.
Let's use your Native Americans and bow and arrow analogy. If a Native American doesn't carry around a bow and arrow like it's 1500, is he/she still Native? If they don't wear a handmade cow leather thong and prance around in the moonlight doing some traditional dance, are they a sellout? Because if you live in the Midwest, where you actually do see Native Americans, they dress just like everyone else - denim, khakis, t shirts, dress shoes, sneakers, etc. This goes for the tribal lands as well. This doesn't make them sellouts or any less Native than someone else who can speak their language and chooses to dress traditional as much as they can. Would you go up to an Italian- or Irish-American and say, "Yo, you can't speak Italian or Irish. You can't even cook one dish of Italian or Irish food. GTFO you ain't Italian/Irish!" No, you wouldn't. That would be stupid.
For those of you who don't agree with what I'm saying, you're just an elitist thinker and you think you're a hot shot Hmong person when you are wearing denim and drinking your Starbucks just like the rest of us. You just simply think your shiit doesn't stink.
As for cultural items and ideas, every culture has borrowed from others that there is no such thing as pure English culture, pure Hmong culture, or pure whatever culture. Even the Amazonian tribes, the very last people on earth who are having contact with the mainstream world, are using guns to hunt and wearing t shirts and pants and sneakers. This doesn't make them sellouts or no longer Amazon tribes - they are still who they are. If you can't wrap this around your thick head, just look down and tell me what you are wearing right this second. If you are in no underwears and you are not in Hmong pants/skirts, then you are full of shiiit. Enjoy your iced latte, Pepsi, or whatever non-Hmong beverage you are having for lunch. What's for lunch? Sweet rice and laarb, a Laotian dish? McDonald's, perhaps? Subway? It's cool. You're still Hmong regardless.
Like I said, this is ridiculous as inner-beauty. Because anyone can say anything. You wear denim? Not Hmong. You eat papaya salad, a Laotian dish? Not Hmong. You own and drive a car? Not Hmong - Hmong never engineered any vehicle, gas powered or otherwise. You were born in America? Garbage Hmong - real Hmong are born in Asian. You're born in Thailand? Garbage Hmong - real Hmong are born in Guizhou province, China. You were born in 21st Century? Garbage - Hmong born after the year 300AD are no longer Hmong and they just incorporate other cultures.
Do you see the retard snowball effect?
So basically you said what I said earlier...
I don't understand why you are trying to explain the same point I made earlier to me.
What you said there is the same as this below....it's in this same thread...page 3
You know...folks need to realize no matter how hard they try to distance themselves from hmongs and being hmong or hmong-like.....no matter how good your English is and have no accent....no matter how well you fit in into other cultures and ethnicities... and even if all your friends are non hmong and even your best friends.....
At the end of the day...99 percent of you got almond shaped eyes...brown,black hair...tan skin....you're still hmong...
Yo mom was hmong...dad was hmong...granda d was hmong..grandma was hmong...your parents killed cjickens...cow s...pigs....
You are hmong.
If you're trying to debate agianst me...it's not working for you...
It's tuff being smart!
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And you're just "pointless", period!!
No wonder another PH member said your "mindset" is like Trump...
I just go by the facts that the "rubberband rope game" is not a Hmong game, just like basketball is not a Hmong game...Just because Hmong adopt it and play it, doesn't make it a Hmong game...but it's "pointless" with you even after the facts crystal clear..
If you say I'm pointless, how come you can't make an arguement for it? 《-------- what that means is you citing some examples why I'm pointless.
But just like every other time you make some "doesn't make sense statement but you think it sounds fancily end all" you can't even back it up.
Also in what I quoted from you, by you still saying the hmongs adopted it, it's blatantly appearant you failed to see the point that the hmongs folks may have indeed "invented" it by ourselves. So go back and re-read the part about the pyramids and bow and arrows.
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It's tuff being smart.
The thing is...I'm not even trying to be....
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And plus, you two have gotten way off topic, moonangel simply asked if anyone else is worried we hmongs may not know what is Hmong is anymore...
I said yes...becuase there are hmongs that doesn't even know what the rubberband game is. <----the logic and reasoning behind this is that if hmongs don't even know a simple hmong game, then there is alot to be worried for. Also if hmongs can't even speak hmong, yes there is pause for concern.
For you two to really answer this thread would be to just state why you would or would not be worried about it. Yalls went off on tangents!
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This is so weird having to spoon feed you two on how to properly debate! And how to understand what was said.
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So basically you said what I said earlier...
I don't understand why you are trying to explain the same point I made earlier to me.
If you used your brain, you would know that I am still on the subject. I'm still discussing about the original thread subject - "worried about Hmong culture losing purity". All of my posts have been addressing this, saying that there is no such thing as "pure" Hmong culture and customs, pure English culture, etc.
No, you and I are not making the same point. No, I am not making the same point as theking. Obviously, you never read, or can't read, my posts and immediately lumped me in with theking just because our views differ from yours. THAT is an example of poor debating.
At this point, I know you're not even reading. Even theking is telling you to go re-read. Apparently, it is TUFF (as you wrote it) to be smart. TUFFF!!!!!!
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If you say I'm pointless, how come you can't make an arguement for it? 《-------- what that means is you citing some examples why I'm pointless.
But just like every other time you make some "doesn't make sense statement but you think it sounds fancily end all" you can't even back it up.
Also in what I quoted from you, by you still saying the hmongs adopted it, it's blatantly appearant you failed to see the point that the hmongs folks may have indeed "invented" it by ourselves. So go back and re-read the part about the pyramids and bow and arrows.
I can ask you the same because you started with the "pointless" stuff...
Show proof of your claim:
"But just like every other time you make some "doesn't make sense statement but you think it sounds fancily end all" you can't even back it up."
Or you'll continue to be "pointless"...
Yeah, Hmong "invented" the "rubberband rope game" as much as they "invented" ...basketball. ..Again, "pointless"...
Man, no wonder nkaujsee compared you to Trump... ;D
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If you used your brain, you would know that I am still on the subject. I'm still discussing about the original thread subject - "worried about Hmong culture losing purity". All of my posts have been addressing this, saying that there is no such thing as "pure" Hmong culture and customs, pure English culture, etc.
No, you and I are not making the same point. No, I am not making the same point as theking. Obviously, you never read, or can't read, my posts and immediately lumped me in with theking just because our views differ from yours. THAT is an example of poor debating.
At this point, I know you're not even reading. Even theking is telling you to go re-read. Apparently, it is TUFF (as you wrote it) to be smart. TUFFF!!!!!!
How is it not the same point?
I can probe it is...
Prove to me its not.
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This is so weird having to spoon feed you two on how to properly debate! And how to understand what was said.
Talk about "pointless" coming from a guy? that claimed pictures are no big deal but continue to beg PH members for photos..I think the "Trump" comparison sounds about right per nkaujsee...
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I can ask you the same because you started with the "pointless" stuff...
Show proof of your claim:
"But just like every other time you make some "doesn't make sense statement but you think it sounds fancily end all" you can't even back it up."
Or you'll continue to be "pointless"...
Yeah, Hmong "invented" the "rubberband rope game" as much as they "invented" ...basketball. ..Again, "pointless"...
Man, no wonder nkaujsee compared you to Trump... ;D
So i ask you to prove something or make a good arguement with supporting cites...and all you do is ask me to do the same thing? Ive cite my points all the time...
I even dumb it down and barneystyle it for you.
If your only response is just to ask the same thing ive aske of you...then i cant take you seriously or see any validity to your arguements...
The thing i notice about you is, you usually dont have any ideas untill i bring out an idea then you start jumping on that idea whether its for or agianst it.
You almost come across as unable to think or come up with things by yourself...
For example, what i stated earlier...i ask you to prove something and all you can say is ask me to prove it back...
Cmon man....
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So i ask you to prove something or make a good arguement with supporting cites...and all you do is ask me to do the same thing? Ive cite my points all the time...
I even dumb it down and barneystyle it for you.
If your only response is just to ask the same thing ive aske of you...then i cant take you seriously or see any validity to your arguements...
The thing i notice about you is, you usually dont have any ideas untill i bring out an idea then you start jumping on that idea whether its for or agianst it.
You almost come across as unable to think or come up with things by yourself...
For example, what i stated earlier...i ask you to prove something and all you can say is ask me to prove it back...
Cmon man....
and Yet Zero "cite" from you proving the "rubberband rope game" was "invented" by Hmong...
See nkaujsee is correct, your mindset is very Trumpish indeed...No wonder you are NOT getting photos from her or SB regardless of how much you beg. In fact, nkaujsee has even referred you to "The Castro" as you drive a cute convertible and all...
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Nkaujsee can say all she want, i just see her as a little sister and she can be as mean or as nice as she want.
In any case...i dont think you are seeing what the debate really is about here...
But to you two, i have a question...
Are you two hmong? If yes, please explain. If no, please explain.
If there are any smart readers, they can see why this question is asked and where Im going with this.
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Well? I'll wait!
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Are you two hmong? If yes, please explain. If no, please explain.
If there are any smart readers, they can see why this question is asked and where Im going with this.
This guy keeps derailing and yet, complains when others address his questions. thePoster: "Why you going off-topic to answer my off-topic questions, bruh?" :2funny:
No one owes you an explanation. No one should be worried about the purity of Hmong culture. Like I keep saying, your elitist way of thinking is inner-beauty baloney. You don't get to decide who's Hmong and how Hmong they are based on what you feel is standard.
Smart readers would know where you are going with this? You are correct. Smart readers would know you are about to descend into a snowball effect of pure dog excrement. Your way of thinking is no different than some unintelligent, bias, hateful, post about "Are you American and how American are you? If yes, explain." No one owes you squat to explain why they are Hmong and then have you play judge and jury and decide if they qualify to be Hmong and on what level. I bet if some ignorant, unintelligent person puts you on blast and said to your face "You're an American?! Explain yourself! My family's has been here for 8 generations! What about you?! What have you done to be an American?", you would shut him up by saying the same thing I've been saying: "You don't get to decide who's American and how American I am."
You can quietly drop your hand and lower your head now. Exit is that way.
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This guy keeps derailing and yet, complains when others address his questions. thePoster: "Why you going off-topic to answer my off-topic questions, bruh?" :2funny:
No one owes you an explanation. No one should be worried about the purity of Hmong culture. Like I keep saying, your elitist way of thinking is inner-beauty baloney. You don't get to decide who's Hmong and how Hmong they are based on what you feel is standard.
Smart readers would know where you are going with this? You are correct. Smart readers would know you are about to descend into a snowball effect of pure dog excrement. Your way of thinking is no different than some unintelligent, bias, hateful, post about "Are you American and how American are you? If yes, explain." No one owes you squat to explain why they are Hmong and then have you play judge and jury and decide if they qualify to be Hmong and on what level. I bet if some ignorant, unintelligent person puts you on blast and said to your face "You're an American?! Explain yourself! My family's has been here for 8 generations! What about you?! What have you done to be an American?", you would shut him up by saying the same thing I've been saying: "You don't get to decide who's American and how American I am."
You can quietly drop your hand and lower your head now. Exit is that way.
You're answer and avoiding the question is pretty much what I expected...
How come you won't say if you're hmong or not and explain why you are or are not?
Shall I explain to the audience?
Well it's quite simple. If you say you are hmong, you end up contradicting yourself...bec uase after explaining why you are hmong you would have to be part of that bunch of hmongs who thinks Thier standard is what makes a Hmong a Hmong and who's a sellout.....th ose are your own words...here let me cite it for you...so for you to say yes you are hmong and explain why, well those would be your standards right?
@thePoster
This isn't about which culture invented which games or hunting tools. This is about a bunch of Hmong people thinking THEIR standards are what determines who is Hmong and who is a sellout.
Well now I can see why you can't say yes you are hmong and answer why you would say yes. You would be basically arguing and being mad at youself.
Even if you said no, well...refer to what I just typed above...
But also, if you said you weren't hmong and go on to explain why...well then you would still be wrong, becuase of what I've said...unless your ethnicity isn't hmong, your mom and dad isn't hmong then what I said is correct ..read the quote
You know...folks need to realize no matter how hard they try to distance themselves from hmongs and being hmong or hmong-like.....no matter how good your English is and have no accent....no matter how well you fit in into other cultures and ethnicities... and even if all your friends are non hmong and even your best friends.....
At the end of the day...99 percent of you got almond shaped eyes...brown,black hair...tan skin....you're still hmong...
Yo mom was hmong...dad was hmong...granda d was hmong..grandma was hmong...your parents killed cjickens...cow s...pigs....
You are hmong.
Quite coincedently.. ..it falls in line with what you posted later after my post...where?!?! Oh let me cite it for you...
As for cultural items and ideas, every culture has borrowed from others that there is no such thing as pure English culture, pure Hmong culture, or pure whatever culture. Even the Amazonian tribes, the very last people on earth who are having contact with the mainstream world, are using guns to hunt and wearing t shirts and pants and sneakers. This doesn't make them sellouts or no longer Amazon tribes - they are still who they are. If you can't wrap this around your thick head, just look down and tell me what you are wearing right this second. If you are in no underwears and you are not in Hmong pants/skirts, then you are full of shiiit. Enjoy your iced latte, Pepsi, or whatever non-Hmong beverage you are having for lunch. What's for lunch? Sweet rice and laarb, a Laotian dish? McDonald's, perhaps? Subway? It's cool. You're still Hmong regardless.
Can I sum up those two quotes, one from me and one from you as basically saying " No matter how you try to hide it, purposely or not, you're still hmong? So you said the same thing as me.
So, if you said no you are not hmong, you have your own quote telling yourself that you are hmong...
And this is why you can't and won't answer my question if you are hmong or not and explaining it.
These are your own words, you said them yourself. I'm kinda clueless why you're mad at me when it's appearant you look to just actually be arguing with yourself.
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Oh? The exit is that way? Thanks for telling me so I can get the door for you on your way out.
See, if I make a point, I can back it up...and it's not even from me making things up...it's all from stuff you spewed out yourelf, get mad at you...not me.
There's tons of stuff to get you on here...it's too easy...
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Since cultures evolve over time depending on how much contact a group of people have with others, the more important question to ask is:
"Moving forward, how will Hmong in America identify each other as Hmong?"
When you think about the Hmong in China, for example, many of them practice the same religion/customs, dress in the same fashion, eat the same diet, and pretty much have the same lifestyle in terms of work. There may be those who have fully assimilated into mainstream but for the most part, many of them live in their own remote villages.
However, Hmong Americans are vastly different and with more interracial coupling, many of those children will cease to have dominant Hmong genes. I mention that because right now it seems that we are purely acknowledging each other based on biology. But in the future our descendants will be total strangers and view one another as just a nameless Asian (or biracial person).
As a people with no country, we only have our customary practices to bind us as a people. The day we let go of this is the day we no longer have use for one another. This is one reason why Jews remain in tact. They have customary laws and practices observed only by them. A Jew doesn't marry a Hmong expecting the Hmong to know, understand, and find value in Yom Kippur. Despite many gentiles converting to Judaism, it isn't the same thing as being a cradle Jew - ethnically and religiously.
For example, let's say none of us practice the customary rituals of a traditional Hmong marriage. Then what use do I have of you when I can go to any secular non-Hmong to perform a marriage rite? However, if I find value in the mejkoob, wedding negotiations, bride token, dowry, etc, then I have to keep close to my Hmong community. They are the people who understand the ritual, the process, and the value.
If I don't care about these customary practices then I will be a Hmong in name but not a Hmong in practice. This means I don't need to be tied to any Hmong or Hmong community, but I am still Hmong because my DNA says so.
This is the same reason why LGBT community is upset with marriage. They don't feel that they should have to go set up new rules, new values, and a new process to solidify their couplings. They've already been conditioned to accept the conventional practice. They want to be a part of it.
Yet, we have many young Hmong who see no value in a Hmong traditional marriage. They want to do all American but even that is a fake because they don't really understand all the cultural implications of a white wedding. They are only enamored by the commercialized version of it. The same way that many non-Germans - including Christians - celebrate Christmas with a Christmas Tree.
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There's only one way to validly refute me....
And that's just to answer yes or no if you're hmong and explain why yes or no.
But, well you can't say yes or no...becuase you already dug your hole for either answer.
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Nkaujsee can say all she want, i just see her as a little sister and she can be as mean or as nice as she want.
In any case...i dont think you are seeing what the debate really is about here...
But to you two, i have a question...
Are you two hmong? If yes, please explain. If no, please explain.
If there are any smart readers, they can see why this question is asked and where Im going with this.
The real question is, are you Hmong?
Because if you were, you would know that the "rubberband rope game" was not "invented" by the Hmong..
Still zero "cite" to back up that claim...
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There's only one way to validly refute me....
And that's just to answer yes or no if you're hmong and explain why yes or no.
But, well you can't say yes or no...becuase you already dug your hole for either answer.
Says the guy? that keeps on digging even though the facts are clear and simple...Very Trumpish indeed..
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I am Hmong! LOL you are a buffoon. Do you even read, bro?
No matter what you or anyone says, I am Hmong. I do not need to jump rope or even know that Hmong jump rope exists. Do you understand how absurd it is to say that if you don't Hmong jump rope, you're not Hmong enough? This is YOUR point, not mine.
When I said that "a bunch of Hmongs thinking their standards are what determine who is Hmong", I wasn't talking about the greater Hmong community. I was talking about this PH community - people exactly like you. Do you even comprehend, bro? You precisely proved my point! If the entire Hmong population of the world looked at me and rejected me, saying I wasn't Hmong enough for their standards, would I still be Hmong? YES! What you say, or moonangel says, or any other Hmong person(s) says, doesn't change a Hmong person into something else. It doesn't matter if I jump rope, if I can speak Hmong, if I know which hand to pour the liquor as the cup comes around to me, or some other silly made-up standard of measuring my Hmong-ness.
My work is done. The dude counter-arguing me is providing examples to further prove my point! :2funny:
Take 10 newborn Hmong babies and spread them across all corners of the world to adoptive parents. Each of these 10 children will be alien to so-called "pure" Hmong culture - you know, useless shiit like jump rope, liquor pouring with the correct hand, wearing Zhong Kha's silly shirts out to town (lol, no hate towards Zhong, but I do think his shirts are silly, unique, but still silly). Are these children still Hmong? Yes. It doesn't matter what I say, thePoster says, or the entire Hmong population says. These kids are Hmong, born that way and will die that way. You can't shed it like some social identity. It's not like being a hardcore video gamer for 10 years, and then now I'm into weight lifting or customizing street racing cars. It sure as helll isn't measured by how high above the shoulders the jump rope was raised.
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So what you circle on an application if there is a spot for hmong?
You are hmong by default first and if trump was hmong but acts like a baboon, he still needs to circle that hmong box.
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The real question is, are you Hmong?
Because if you were, you would know that the "rubberband rope game" was not "invented" by the Hmong..
Still zero "cite" to back up that claim...
Dude....why do you even try....how can you even argue when you just ask the same question in just ask you.
If anyone looks at the tread they can see you can't come up with your own thoughts, you basically wait till someone comes up with something and then use it.
It's appearant you obviously can't think for yourself.
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I am Hmong! LOL you are a buffoon. Do you even read, bro?
No matter what you or anyone says, I am Hmong. I do not need to jump rope or even know that Hmong jump rope exists. Do you understand how absurd it is to say that if you don't Hmong jump rope, you're not Hmong enough? This is YOUR point, not mine.
When I said that "a bunch of Hmongs thinking their standards are what determine who is Hmong", I wasn't talking about the greater Hmong community. I was talking about this PH community - people exactly like you. Do you even comprehend, bro? You precisely proved my point! If the entire Hmong population of the world looked at me and rejected me, saying I wasn't Hmong enough for their standards, would I still be Hmong? YES! What you say, or moonangel says, or any other Hmong person(s) says, doesn't change a Hmong person into something else. It doesn't matter if I jump rope, if I can speak Hmong, if I know which hand to pour the liquor as the cup comes around to me, or some other silly made-up standard of measuring my Hmong-ness.
My work is done. The dude counter-arguing me is providing examples to further prove my point! :2funny:
Take 10 newborn Hmong babies and spread them across all corners of the world to adoptive parents. Each of these 10 children will be alien to so-called "pure" Hmong culture - you know, useless shiit like jump rope, liquor pouring with the correct hand, wearing Zhong Kha's silly shirts out to town (lol, no hate towards Zhong, but I do think his shirts are silly, unique, but still silly). Are these children still Hmong? Yes. It doesn't matter what I say, thePoster says, or the entire Hmong population says. These kids are Hmong, born that way and will die that way. You can't shed it like some social identity. It's not like being a hardcore video gamer for 10 years, and then now I'm into weight lifting or customizing street racing cars. It sure as helll isn't measured by how high above the shoulders the jump rope was raised.
If you actually read the thread you'll see that I made that point first so how could I prove your point when I made the point first and then you come along to add your two cents which is the same point I made before you. Go look at the quotes and the time stamps.
Sure you answered you are hmong, but you haven't answered why.... why is that?
Is it becuase if you list why you are hmong...you'll be part of those bunch of hmongs and thier (you) deem as hmong or hmong sellout?
Your words, not mine....
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TheKing an hung TU lo.....
If you guys haven't realized yet, the debate between you two and myself isn't really about whats hmong and what's not hmong and being worried about the hmong culture...
It really is about how you two say contradictory stuff and saying the same stuff as me yet thinking it's different Reguardless of the topic.
This is why no one should take anything from you two seriously. When you say things that contradict stuffs you've already said, no one can take you seriously.
TheKing, if all you can say in a debate is just repeat a question back to the one asking, you come across childish...and thoughtless.
In the debate, I'm pointing out where you two had said this and that. That's what I mean by citing things theking....
theking, I've noticed you stopped saying bandwagon...I'm sure you really wanted tooo, but if anything, one could argue you're a bandwagonervou s now as you are jumping on my bandwagon..how so? Well, you're asking the same questions I'm asking. Hmmmm..how ironic huh?
Maybe you two consider your smart, or at least smarter than me or better than me...I can say I don't consider myself anything at all but I do get that kind of vibe from you two in this tread at least... But if you two keep saying contradicting stuff and using my ideas and points and questions...ar e you two really smarter or better than me?
Theking, you know if I ask you if you are a hmong or not and for you to explain why or why not, then you'd be part of the bunch of people that set Thier standards for being hmongs or not that hung TU LO doesn't like right?
So should I ask you if you are hmong or not and explain? Hmmm...how thought provoking, if I ask you that question and you said yes and explain, that would make you and the person you was "partner" with in here ganging up on me not partners anymore right? If you said yes and explian, well that would just make you agree with my point which hung TU LO also agreed with yet he's delusional about it not being the same.
The reason why I ask for you two is to see if you can justify differently from the points in here...point one being you are hmong reguardless (my point, unknowingly backed up by hung TU LO) the second point being an elitist who likes to classify hmongs according to Thier standards, the people he doesn't like...now if you two can answer differently than these two answers, you would indeed win the debate....
But as you two can see, even to have "won" you would still have "lost".
For me to lose, you two can see that would mean hung TU LO is the people he don't like and theking and hung TU LO would actually be agianst one another now (as in, they can't be partners now becuase theking would be those elitist that hung TU LO doesn't like) so both of them still "lose"
For them to win would mean hung TU LO to have to agree with what I said earlier about Reguardless how far you distance yourself from hmong culture you are still hmong. Which they still lose becuase they would in fact be agreeing with my point...
Or they can just do what they been doing....sayin g what I've already said, asking my own questions back to me, avoiding my questions...
Guys I don't know how more in depth I can break it down to you two...I basically even laid out the thought process behind my side of the debate...feel free to take notes and study.
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I am Hmong! LOL you are a buffoon. Do you even read, bro?
No matter what you or anyone says, I am Hmong. I do not need to jump rope or even know that Hmong jump rope exists. Do you understand how absurd it is to say that if you don't Hmong jump rope, you're not Hmong enough? This is YOUR point, not mine.
When I said that "a bunch of Hmongs thinking their standards are what determine who is Hmong", I wasn't talking about the greater Hmong community. I was talking about this PH community - people exactly like you. Do you even comprehend, bro? You precisely proved my point! If the entire Hmong population of the world looked at me and rejected me, saying I wasn't Hmong enough for their standards, would I still be Hmong? YES! What you say, or moonangel says, or any other Hmong person(s) says, doesn't change a Hmong person into something else. It doesn't matter if I jump rope, if I can speak Hmong, if I know which hand to pour the liquor as the cup comes around to me, or some other silly made-up standard of measuring my Hmong-ness.
My work is done. The dude counter-arguing me is providing examples to further prove my point! :2funny:
Take 10 newborn Hmong babies and spread them across all corners of the world to adoptive parents. Each of these 10 children will be alien to so-called "pure" Hmong culture - you know, useless shiit like jump rope, liquor pouring with the correct hand, wearing Zhong Kha's silly shirts out to town (lol, no hate towards Zhong, but I do think his shirts are silly, unique, but still silly). Are these children still Hmong? Yes. It doesn't matter what I say, thePoster says, or the entire Hmong population says. These kids are Hmong, born that way and will die that way. You can't shed it like some social identity. It's not like being a hardcore video gamer for 10 years, and then now I'm into weight lifting or customizing street racing cars. It sure as helll isn't measured by how high above the shoulders the jump rope was raised.
The first in bold, I never said if you don't know how to jump rope then you are not hmong, if you can find it, quote it. I said some people don't even know that game. What does that mean? Well let's decipher it. It simply means some hmongs don't even know that game.
What does not know that game mean in this context? Well it would mean those hmong people don't know that Hmong people played that game in the past.
Is there any part in there where we can say I said if you don't know what that game is it means you're not hmong?
It kinda seems you actually want to see what you want see when you read...
The second bolded part...hey good going, you are yet agian saying basically what I said way way earlier agian..if you read the earlier post where I was quoting posts, you would've known I've already said that before you.
You know...folks need to realize no matter how hard they try to distance themselves from hmongs and being hmong or hmong-like.....no matter how good your English is and have no accent....no matter how well you fit in into other cultures and ethnicities... and even if all your friends are non hmong and even your best friends.....
At the end of the day...99 percent of you got almond shaped eyes...brown,black hair...tan skin....you're still hmong...
Yo mom was hmong...dad was hmong...granda d was hmong..grandma was hmong...your parents killed cjickens...cow s...pigs....
You are hmong.
So ummmm mm yeah....so...
Here, I need to break it down for you becuase you can't or understand that it is basically saying the same thing...
Youre said if everyone said you are not "hmong" due to how they don't fit the "standard", you are still hmong.
I said even as much as a person may distanced to not be" hmong", essentially not fitting the standard", they are still hmong.
What the heck?!?!? Same stuff....it was said differently, but it is the same point. Which I made prior to you remaking it thinking it's different from mine to use "agianst" me....
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Anyways...yeah its sad "real hmong culture is fastly fading"... a lot of the young folks express no care for it.
And their parents could care less too....
Just like that 20 year old hmong girl I met who couldn't speak or understand hmong...
She said her mom told her she didn't want her to learn or speak hmong....
I was thinking... "wtf"...
You are so moronic, you can't even comprehend your own thoughts and posts. Here, you are basically implying that a Hmong person not having interest in Hmong events translates to a form of being less of a Hmong. You also believe that just because someone chooses not to learn Hmong language is automatically distancing themselves, thereby, making her less of a Hmong. Hmmmm, where have I seen this phenomenon before? Oh, right! This is like that bull garbage with black people saying if you do your homework, speak English without sounding like Shaniqua and Shakiraquan, you're a sellout, an Uncle Tom, a house n!gger.
Moonangel I said I'm worried too!!
Some folks don't even know what this is!!! Folks in here!!!
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l167/DummieBoy/Mobile%20Uploads/tumblr_nauaphlTMz1rq7smco1_500_zpsxeqyzcrr.jpg)
It's implied, dummy. You think people who don't know this game are somehow a detriment to Hmong culture. As if knowing the game improves the culture somehow? Just because you don't have the balls to say outright that you think you are more superior than others, doesn't mean your manner of thinking and speech doesn't imply it.
Don't compare yourself to me. There are pages full of your posts in which you imply the same idea above; that there are imaginary standards to what you deem is Hmong. Just because you say "you all got almond eyes - you all are Hmong", doesn't put you on the same level as me. You are full of disdain and elitism. You're like those nut job Christian folks who says every Human is a child of God and God loves us all, but then if you tell them you're a Muslim or an Atheist, they suddenly look at you with disdain and think you're not good enough to be on their level. Sure, you may say we're all Hmong in your eyes. But as soon as someone tells you they can't speak Hmong, or don't go to Hmong New Year, don't go to shaman or funeral events, doesn't know more than 2 uncles by name, or know how to cut up a fresh slaughtered pig, or some other supposedly Hmong characteristic, the truth comes out.
When I meet a Hmong person who doesn't speak one word of Hmong, I think to myself that they are still Hmong. When you meet a Hmong person who doesn't speak a word of Hmong, you think to yourself "WTF". Don't ever suggest that you and I have the same ideas. If I had a fraction of your mindset, I'd kill myself - but then if I were you, I'd be too ignorant to see how ignorant I am. Not putting words in your mouth, kiddo. It's all above in your own words. You automatically assume they are lesser or they are selling out just because they don't speak the language. Obviously, you think they are not up to your standards of being a Hmong.
I know your type. People like you are the reason why Hmong culture is in the faltering position it is. Because nothing is ever good enough for your standards. Maybe you should tell us now, are we using the keyboard and mouse the Hmong way? :2funny:
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You are so moronic, you can't even comprehend your own thoughts and posts. Here, you are basically implying that a Hmong person not having interest in Hmong events translates to a form of being less of a Hmong. You also believe that just because someone chooses not to learn Hmong language is automatically distancing themselves, thereby, making her less of a Hmong. Hmmmm, where have I seen this phenomenon before? Oh, right! This is like that bull garbage with black people saying if you do your homework, speak English without sounding like Shaniqua and Shakiraquan, you're a sellout, an Uncle Tom, a house n!gger.
It's implied, dummy. You think people who don't know this game are somehow a detriment to Hmong culture. As if knowing the game improves the culture somehow? Just because you don't have the balls to say outright that you think you are more superior than others, doesn't mean your manner of thinking and speech doesn't imply it.
Don't compare yourself to me. There are pages full of your posts in which you imply the same idea above; that there are imaginary standards to what you deem is Hmong. Just because you say "you all got almond eyes - you all are Hmong", doesn't put you on the same level as me. You are full of disdain and elitism. You're like those nut job Christian folks who says every Human is a child of God and God loves us all, but then if you tell them you're a Muslim or an Atheist, they suddenly look at you with disdain and think you're not good enough to be on their level. Sure, you may say we're all Hmong in your eyes. But as soon as someone tells you they can't speak Hmong, or don't go to Hmong New Year, don't go to shaman or funeral events, doesn't know more than 2 uncles by name, or know how to cut up a fresh slaughtered pig, or some other supposedly Hmong characteristic, the truth comes out.
When I meet a Hmong person who doesn't speak one word of Hmong, I think to myself that they are still Hmong. When you meet a Hmong person who doesn't speak a word of Hmong, you think to yourself "WTF". Don't ever suggest that you and I have the same ideas. If I had a fraction of your mindset, I'd kill myself - but then if I were you, I'd be too ignorant to see how ignorant I am. Not putting words in your mouth, kiddo. It's all above in your own words. You automatically assume they are lesser or they are selling out just because they don't speak the language. Obviously, you think they are not up to your standards of being a Hmong.
I know your type. People like you are the reason why Hmong culture is in the faltering position it is. Because nothing is ever good enough for your standards. Maybe you should tell us now, are we using the keyboard and mouse the Hmong way? :2funny:
How do you know if I'm implying anything at all? Anyways...for you to state that I'm implying some thing and then state what you assume I was implying(which you did in the first bolded part), well wouldn't that make you putting words in my mouth? Who's putting words in who's mouth now?
If it was all in my own words how come you cant quote it? You had to imply it? I could understand if it was paraphased, which is what I've done and explained in previous posts but for you to say I'm implying something which would mean you are assuming that I'm implying what you are think i meant, well wouldnt that just be your opinion on what you thought I was saying?
So, if you really look at it, you are disgruntled at me for a thought that you think I meant to say but never said, is that correct?
I really can't see how you can imply what you think I meant, and if you could paraphased(translate) what I said to what you think I'm "implying" then you'd be right I guess. But please go through the logic like I've been doing for you. I've been giving you a bunch of free passes.....
Explain to me how you got
Hmong person not having interest in Hmong events translates to a form of being less of a Hmong. You also believe that just because someone chooses not to learn Hmong language is automatically distancing themselves, thereby, making her less of a Hmong.
From this
Anyways...yeah its sad "real hmong culture is fastly fading"... a lot of the young folks express no care for it.
And their parents could care less too....
Just like that 20 year old hmong girl I met who couldn't speak or understand hmong...
She said her mom told her she didn't want her to learn or speak hmong....
I was thinking... "wtf"...
I'll tell you what I meant by it, that the hmong culture is fading fast, and that there are parents who dont care for it (hmong culture-that is the topic we are discussing) as it is evident by me having met a girl who said her mother didn't want her to learn hmong. The WTF was a way to express my shock to hear that some girls mom didn't want her to learn hmong and that's it. Everything else is just what you assume of me whether it's how I think or how I am, but do please explain why you think I'm a certain way based on what I'm typing. Like I said, quote me, don't imply, as you can see you implied wrongly and well, implying things really holds no weight...if you'd just take everything I've said at face value...I think you'd be less upset.
So ummm..yeah.... tell me how you got what you got, or is it just really an opinion on what you thought I could be meaning...
Also, how do you know I'm full of disdain and elitism? Please explain. If you could, quote everything I said that I've said to make me full of disdain. Please please please don't imply anymore as we've already establish that for you to imply would just mean you're just stating what you think I meant to say, thus you're just stating your opinion which is in no way valid as to proving how someone is based on anothers opinion.
Also for you to assume what you assumed, isn't that just your opinion on what you think I meant? Have you considered your assumption may be wrong? If I said something, I'll own up to it, but for you to just make assumptions on me? Cmon now, your assumptions are nothing I've said or stated.
That's why I also ask you questions and ask for explanations from you so I don't have to assume anything from you but all you do is just tiptoe around and avoid my questions.
Anyways, would you care to answer this question, what is your definition of an elitist? Please be detailed, quote me, I rather have my own words tossed back in my face than face persecution on what someone is assuming what I'm implying but never said if I'm even implying anything at all.
You know what's pretty ironic here, you're making me out to be the bad guy by saying I'm like this I'm like that and implying what you think I'm trying to say (and wow, they all do seem like they are not so good) and calling me names...moroni c could be classified as a bad name, I'd say it's a word used to bring someone down, hurt feelings, degrade,etc etc but of course that's just my opinion....but you haven't seen me call you names or make any implications on the type of person you are though have you?
Hmmmm...how interesting... .
And I never suggested, I said its the same idea,point,thought. ..whatever you wanna call it becuase it is.
I find it funnie I can and do explain what seems to be everything I've typed that you have highlighted and brought up....yet you can't explain anything you brought up or typed about.
But anyways...defi ne elitism for me...
Well, let me just do it for you... per this site http://www.dictionary.com/browse/elitist (http://www.dictionary.com/browse/elitist)
adjective
1.
(of a person or class of persons) considered superior by others or by themselves, as in intellect, talent, power, wealth, or position in society:
elitist country clubbers who have theirs and don't care about anybody else.
2.
catering to or associated with an elitist class, its ideologies, or its institutions:
Even at such a small, private college, Latin and Greek are under attack as too elitist.
noun
3.
a person having, thought to have, or professing superior intellect or talent, power, wealth, or membership in the upper echelons of society:
He lost a congressional race in Texas by being smeared as an Eastern elitist.
4.
a person who believes in the superiority of an elitist class.
So the dictionary definition pretty much says an elitist is someone who thinks they are better than others...
So...let's see...you've said alot about me...assumed alot about me....even called me moronic...aND then make fun of me using a mouse and keyboard the hmong way as well....
Well, if you called me moronic...that would mean you're sing I'm dumber than you? I'll let you answer. I'm not going to start implying and make assumptions.
Everything you said about me, are you saying everything you said about me is right as well?
And what did you mean when you were saying I was keyboarding and mouse hmong way? To myself and others sounds like you were trying to put me down, make fun of me? But I don't want to imply so please explain...
But heck, what am I doing ....I should've just said "for someone calling others elitist, someone sure is acting like one, that person called me moronic, I guess he's better than me, also said if that person had a fraction of my mindset that person would do harm to themselve. I'm assuming my mindset is so horrible it would cause self harm? So that means my mindset is no way as good as thiers. That must mean thier mindset is superior! Wow, the definition of elitist is...welll.... .."
So are you saying your mindset is superior to mine?
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You are so moronic.....
.....dummy....
......using the keyboard and mouse the Hmong way? :2funny:
Called me moronic...a dummy....and made fun of me using the keyboard and mouse the Hmong way, and this is coming from a person who stated they were hmong, and then laughed at me tooo.......
What's the definition of an elitist agian?
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I know your type. People like you are the reasoy why Hmong culture is in the faltering position it is. Because nothing is ever good enough for your standards. Maybe you should tell us now, are we using the keyboard and mouse the Hmong way? :2funny:
You should call yourself a hmigger, 'cause that's what you are... Stupidest reasoning.
It's because of ppl like you is more like it, that's making the bold statement above occur.
Trying to be all inclusive and at the end will have nothing.
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What does religion have anything to do with this topic. You speak as if I chose my faith. Do you realize that I was always a Christian? My mother was a nun in Laos. Do you know why she became a nun? Life was hard on her and she was told that in order to have a good life, she'd have to work for herself. By luck she met my father who was Shaman but he converted because he had a visiting of some sort from God. So, being Christian is all I know as it pertains to religions. Culture-wise, I do know a lot.
And why are you so anti-Christians? I have cousins who are Shaman and I attend the parties and such when I'm invited. I also have friends who are of other religions and I attend whatever event they have when invited. I'm not biased to anyone's faith.
btw, just a reminder, this topic isn't about me. I'm actually asking if it's crosses anyone else's mind how the culture is changing so much and the past is not recorded for the future gens...somethi ng basic that all future gens and go to and say, "this is what Hmong really is."
Religion is part of culture. This is what you don't see nor understand... Here's a comparison/analogy for you. If culture is your entire body, then religion is just a subset of it, like the head or torso. It is, and is part of the entirety/culture.
you worry and lament the loss of Hmong culture, yet you don't recognize that by taking up Christianity you have let go of so much Hmong cultural identifiers. That's the point.
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A line has to be drawn somewhere. Or else you will have a situation like mormons hijacking the christian faith(s). Or better yet, read the article below.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2016/09/08/defrock-atheist-minister-gretta-vosper-united-church-panel-urges.html (https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2016/09/08/defrock-atheist-minister-gretta-vosper-united-church-panel-urges.html)
There comes a point.
If we're going to be super inclusive on what defines hmong then almost anyone or anything(?) can claim they are hmong, which will make it meaningless, just like the above article concerning christianity.
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Welps, there you go agian...
Have i called you anything?
Tell me what a hm****r is?
Plus, whay are you putting labels on me?
Well?
Or...going back to avoiding questions?
Looks like to me you are they very kind of people you despise.
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Oh, lets not forget. I was called a bafoon too.
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Dude....why do you even try....how can you even argue when you just ask the same question in just ask you.
If anyone looks at the tread they can see you can't come up with your own thoughts, you basically wait till someone comes up with something and then use it.
It's appearant you obviously can't think for yourself.
TheKing an hung TU lo.....
If you guys haven't realized yet, the debate between you two and myself isn't really about whats hmong and what's not hmong and being worried about the hmong culture...
It really is about how you two say contradictory stuff and saying the same stuff as me yet thinking it's different Reguardless of the topic.
This is why no one should take anything from you two seriously. When you say things that contradict stuffs you've already said, no one can take you seriously.
TheKing, if all you can say in a debate is just repeat a question back to the one asking, you come across childish...and thoughtless.
In the debate, I'm pointing out where you two had said this and that. That's what I mean by citing things theking....
theking, I've noticed you stopped saying bandwagon...I'm sure you really wanted tooo, but if anything, one could argue you're a bandwagonervou s now as you are jumping on my bandwagon..how so? Well, you're asking the same questions I'm asking. Hmmmm..how ironic huh?
Maybe you two consider your smart, or at least smarter than me or better than me...I can say I don't consider myself anything at all but I do get that kind of vibe from you two in this tread at least... But if you two keep saying contradicting stuff and using my ideas and points and questions...ar e you two really smarter or better than me?
Theking, you know if I ask you if you are a hmong or not and for you to explain why or why not, then you'd be part of the bunch of people that set Thier standards for being hmongs or not that hung TU LO doesn't like right?
So should I ask you if you are hmong or not and explain? Hmmm...how thought provoking, if I ask you that question and you said yes and explain, that would make you and the person you was "partner" with in here ganging up on me not partners anymore right? If you said yes and explian, well that would just make you agree with my point which hung TU LO also agreed with yet he's delusional about it not being the same.
The reason why I ask for you two is to see if you can justify differently from the points in here...point one being you are hmong reguardless (my point, unknowingly backed up by hung TU LO) the second point being an elitist who likes to classify hmongs according to Thier standards, the people he doesn't like...now if you two can answer differently than these two answers, you would indeed win the debate....
But as you two can see, even to have "won" you would still have "lost".
For me to lose, you two can see that would mean hung TU LO is the people he don't like and theking and hung TU LO would actually be agianst one another now (as in, they can't be partners now becuase theking would be those elitist that hung TU LO doesn't like) so both of them still "lose"
For them to win would mean hung TU LO to have to agree with what I said earlier about Reguardless how far you distance yourself from hmong culture you are still hmong. Which they still lose becuase they would in fact be agreeing with my point...
Or they can just do what they been doing....sayin g what I've already said, asking my own questions back to me, avoiding my questions...
Guys I don't know how more in depth I can break it down to you two...I basically even laid out the thought process behind my side of the debate...feel free to take notes and study.
All that "pointless" BS babbling and still zero "cite" to prove your claim of the Hmong "invented" the "rubber-band rope game"... ::)
But coming from a guy that cried and claimed, I've never said any bad motorcycle riders when I've actually created threads about it and he even replied to it, it's no surprised to see all the "pointless" BS babbling...
Nothing new from a "Trump minded" person as nkaujsee put it...
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We are Hmong simply by virtue of being Hmong. Being Hmong is not an acquisition. There are no imaginary standards that you have to pass in order to be Hmong. This does not mean an Irish guy can claim to be Hmong; are you that dumb? Hmong is quintessential ly an ethnicity. You can't jump in and out of, and between ethnicity.
My logic: We are all Hmong. Your Hmong language proficiency or knowledge of the Hmong culture has no bearing on how Hmong you are.
thePoster's logic: We are all Hmong. Therefore, we must abide by certain traits and behavior that deem us worthy of being Hmong. Oh, you don't speak Hmong? What's wrong with you?! Don't you understand we are Hmong!? Work on yourself to be better!
Yeebkooj's logic: If you're Christian, you sold out on Hmong customs, you's a Hmigger. If you legally have an English name, you's a Hmigger. If you don't support Chai Vang in murdering all those white people, you's a Hmigger.
Anyone with a working brain knows I make the most sense, I am the most reasonable, logical, and humanitarian. If you took a poll among all of the young Hmong people under 30 years old, I bet 95% of them would agree with me and not thePoster or this senseless maniac, Yeebkooj. If Hmong people had a country, people like thePoster would be the embodiment of Fox News/O'Reilly/right wing, and Yeebkooj would be the head honcho of the Hmong version of "Sharia Law". Hmong girls would not be able to wear pants or read a book because that is Hmigger attitude.
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We are Hmong simply by virtue of being Hmong. Being Hmong is not an acquisition. There are no imaginary standards that you have to pass in order to be Hmong. This does not mean an Irish guy can claim to be Hmong; are you that dumb? Hmong is quintessential ly an ethnicity. You can't jump in and out of, and between ethnicity.
My logic: We are all Hmong. Your Hmong language proficiency or knowledge of Hmong culture has no bearing on how Hmong you are.
Ok Too Low, the self-hating Hmigger, then look up the definition of ethnicity and post it here. Explain it yourself.
Furthermore, there are adopted Lao, Thai, and Khmu/Pubthawj kids who over time have become Hmong (take up names, speak language, follow customs, etc, essentially embraced the culture)... How do you explain that then, if you can't switch (or lose) ethnicity?
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Anyone with a working brain knows I make the most sense, I am the most reasonable, logical, and humanitarian. If you took a poll among all of the young Hmong people under 30 years old, I bet 95% of them would agree with me and not thePoster or this senseless maniac, Yeebkooj. If Hmong people had a country, people like thePoster would be the embodiment of Fox News/O'Reilly/right wing, and Yeebkooj would be the head honcho of the Hmong version of "Sharia Law". Hmong girls would not be able to wear pants or read a book because that is Hmigger attitude.
Heh heh heh, I would have never thought you would view yourself in such a light, especially the latter bold part (humanitarian)... not after you talking about dub as nigs and not wanting to give them kids free school lunches as some of them will grow up to be menaces to society only.
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We are Hmong simply by virtue of being Hmong. Being Hmong is not an acquisition. There are no imaginary standards that you have to pass in order to be Hmong. This does not mean an Irish guy can claim to be Hmong; are you that dumb? Hmong is quintessential ly an ethnicity. You can't jump in and out of, and between ethnicity.
My logic: We are all Hmong. Your Hmong language proficiency or knowledge of the Hmong culture has no bearing on how Hmong you are.
thePoster's logic: We are all Hmong. Therefore, we must abide by certain traits and behavior that deem us worthy of being Hmong. Oh, you don't speak Hmong? What's wrong with you?! Don't you understand we are Hmong!? Work on yourself to be better!
Yeebkooj's logic: If you're Christian, you sold out on Hmong customs, you's a Hmigger. If you legally have an English name, you's a Hmigger. If you don't support Chai Vang in murdering all those white people, you's a Hmigger.
Anyone with a working brain knows I make the most sense, I am the most reasonable, logical, and humanitarian. If you took a poll among all of the young Hmong people under 30 years old, I bet 95% of them would agree with me and not thePoster or this senseless maniac, Yeebkooj. If Hmong people had a country, people like thePoster would be the embodiment of Fox News/O'Reilly/right wing, and Yeebkooj would be the head honcho of the Hmong version of "Sharia Law". Hmong girls would not be able to wear pants or read a book because that is Hmigger attitude.
There you go agian...in bold...where in this thread have I ever said that? You cant even find it to quote it or to paraphase it. What is in bold is what you assume I'm saying. And I repeat agian, has it not occur to you that you may be assuming wrong?
Is it safe to say you are just basically imposing your view of me to me?
So basically, you're upset at a persona you believe is how I am based on what you fabricated from your opinion.....yo u also are upset on views or ways of thinking or logics you assume I'm guilty of....but all those things you say I am or think are just what you think! So you're actually upset at ideas you think everyone Including myself are thinking that are actually your ideas. That's why I ask you to quote/cite them, if you were able to, it would prove that they are not your ideas that you are projecting on to me.
I've asked you many times to prove how I am this person you believe I am to be but you haven't yet. All you keep doing is saying that I am this and that without any backing up claims.
How can anyone be a reasonable, logical, humanitarian when they are busy making assumptions about how others think or conduct themselves and then calling them names such as dummy, baffoon, moronic, and hm*****, senseless maniac....Can you explain?
Why don't you explain anything I ask?
Also how do you know if I wanted or wanted not for girls to wear pants only? What have I said to make you think that?
Should I start educating you on ......how what you think is correct is not actually...unl ess I've said it, you shouldn't be assuming, aND like I've said so many times before, you need to consider the fact that you may be assuming wrong.
Have you folks never heard the phrase "....builds character..."...or "says alot about someone's character"??
So basically when I'm saying talking about how a women should garden, clean, etc etc...you know what? If a girl did do all those stuff, I'd look at that girl and be impressed. Becuase it says alot about her character...we ll what does it say? It says she's a hard worker, she is not lazy, she can perservere, she can see the bigger picture, doing menial chores she doesn't see it degrading, she's mentally strong, she sees that the world doesn't revolve around her meaning she's grounded, down to earth, she doesn't see herself better than others-for Pete sakes she's doing the dishes, she not living g in her own fantasy world, she's not selfish, she doesn't think of her and only her, etc etc...I can go on and on....
So when I see a girl like that, I know she's no nonsense....I know a girl like that can handle being a wife and all the things that comes along with being a wife, a mother, a nyab etc etc...
So wells...guess you assumed wrong agian...you really should stop assuming you know how people are and think. So now that you know my thoughts on my gardening aND cleaning comments...wel l, where do you see anywhere that I want to make hmong girls and women wear pants only? Or did you really mean to say that you think I'd treat them like a 2nd class citizen?
Hmmm...I guess now that I explained myself, Im actually in awe of Hmong girls aND respect them for being so strong.
Have you never heard of dont judge a book by its cover?
You should open up your miND more and take off your horse blinders...sto p letting your own perceived notions of others dictate how you view others before even getting to know them. Also, it's OK to be wrong.....
In anycase! They way you carried and conducted yourself says alot about your character. Maybe it's time for a good look in the mirror?
Theking...why do you even try...I see that you've moved on from the word bandwagon on to trump...that must be the new word of the week for you.
To answer your motorcycle thing....ok... so you did post a thread about motocyclist being reckless...are you a your a motorcyclist too... so you don't like it when people say that motorcyclist are wreckless becuase you are a motorcyclist too... so it's OK for you to be upset when someone says motorcyclist are wreckless... but it's not ok for me being a "racer" to be upset when you and others say "racers" are dangerous? That was the point I was trying g to make with you a while back yet you are unable to see it.
And just like I've said before about you...you like to hold everyone accountable except for you. Dont you see that as a double standard? That's why I say I cant take you seriously on anything. For you..everyone's wrong except for you...for you...even when your wrong, you're not wrong becuase all of a sudden it doesn't apply to you...
Do you know how the public view people like that? Well....the majority of people view them as u trustworthy... .can't be taken seriously....e tc etc...I'm sure you get the picture...but then agian...of couse you don't get the picture becuase it doesnt apply to you...only time something applies to you is where it's convenient to you or puts you in a positive spotlight.
These are not assumptions at all for it has been observed many times from you....for example the thread about turning in family members....
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Also, the fact that you are Hmong doesn't mean you have to revolve your whole life choices and lifestyle around some silly notion of fulfilling some imaginary duty of "making Hmong relevant".
So because others want to dutifully promote Hmong values, making it relevant, then it's silly on their part?
What the heck is this screwed up thinking garbage of yours?
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If you took a poll among all of the young Hmong people under 30 years old, I bet 95% of them would agree with me and not thePoster
Right...becuas e that demographic would qualify most as knowing the most about what it is to be Hmong right? Not that 70 year old that's seen two worlds.... or Thier mom and dad who probably could form a better opinion based on the fact they been alive longer and see how hmongs are then and now...
So you only want the view and thoughts of a certain demographic... .everyone else...well they probably don't agree with you so you'll just exclude them right? Whatever it takes to make you right ...rignt?
Youll just dis regard that other hmong demographic becuase...even though they are hmong they dont get a say right? Who cares what they think right?
Almost starting to sound a bit elitist I think...what do you think hung TU lo? I thought you didn't like elitist people...I thought you didn't like people who thinks Thier view is the only right one?
Hmmmmmm......
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Right...becuas e that demographic would qualify most as knowing the most about what it is to be Hmong right? Not that 70 year old that's seen two worlds.... or Thier mom and dad who probably could form a better opinion based on the fact they been alive longer and see how hmongs are then and now...
So you only want the view and thoughts of a certain demographic... .everyone else...well they probably don't agree with you so you'll just exclude them right? Whatever it takes to make you right ...rignt?
Youll just dis regard that other hmong demographic becuase...even though they are hmong they dont get a say right? Who cares what they think right?
Almost starting to sound a bit elitist I think...what do you think hung TU lo? I thought you didn't like elitist people...I thought you didn't like people who thinks Thier view is the only right one?
Hmmmmmm......
LOL, I was going to say something along that line, but my keyboard is acting up, and it's time consuming to type it all out. So good one for stating it.
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Theking...why do you even try...I see that you've moved on from the word bandwagon on to trump...that must be the new word of the week for you.
I could ask you the same "why do you even try..." as you're wrong again...just like all the "pointless" babbling w/o zero "cite" to back up the Hmong "invented" the "rubberband rope game"...
"bandwagon" doesn't apply here as you are not jumping from NFL team to NFL team like when you claimed to be a Vikings' fan but as soon as they lost, you made fun of them and their fans.. then jump over to the next team that won...
The "trump" was gathered from another PH member and so far she's spot on when she compared you to Trump...You know "pointless"...
To answer your motorcycle thing....ok... so you did post a thread about motocyclist being reckless...are you a your a motorcyclist too... so you don't like it when people say that motorcyclist are wreckless becuase you are a motorcyclist too... so it's OK for you to be upset when someone says motorcyclist are wreckless... but it's not ok for me being a "racer" to be upset when you and others say "racers" are dangerous? That was the point I was trying g to make with you a while back yet you are unable to see it.
The passage above made zero sense..."why do you even try"...I'm the one that pointed out that being "reckless" is idiotic so why would I be "upset" if others also point that same view out??...Again, made no sense at all..but not surprised...ve ry Trumpish...
And just like I've said before about you...you like to hold everyone accountable except for you. Dont you see that as a double standard? That's why I say I cant take you seriously on anything. For you..everyone's wrong except for you...for you...even when your wrong, you're not wrong becuase all of a sudden it doesn't apply to you...
Do you know how the public view people like that? Well....the majority of people view them as u trustworthy... .can't be taken seriously....e tc etc...I'm sure you get the picture...but then agian...of couse you don't get the picture becuase it doesnt apply to you...only time something applies to you is where it's convenient to you or puts you in a positive spotlight.
These are not assumptions at all for it has been observed many times from you....for example the thread about turning in family members....
Wrong again, I don't hold "everyone" accountable, just those that make false claims that can't back it up or spew wrong information.
If I'm mistaken, I take ownership of it like I've done in the past and sometimes even thank those that have corrected me because they taught me something instead of continuing to babble "pointless" BS with zero "cite" to back it up like you.
Unlike you I have no problems doing the right thing even it means trying to get help for my own family.
You are very Trumpish indeed, no wonder, you haven't gotten any "photos" from them yet ...Simply put, they don't "take you seriously on anything"...
You should already know how the "public" view Trump so all you have to do is look at yourself in the mirror..The more you babble "pointless" BS without any "cite" to back up your claims, the more Trumpish you get which means even less chance of getting those photos you've begging for.
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So...if you don't hold everyone accountable... .why did you say you would turn hmongs in? Even your own family member.....Rem ember that thread..I'm sure you do.....
I won't go into details...firs t you said yes..then no..then try to take attention away from your comments by asking the same question...
Looks like just what I said...you only like it when it's convenient or put you in a positive light...
I'm curious what your definition of "trumpish" is? Can you answer that?
And if you cant understand the motorcycle thing...I don't even know what to say...
I will try one last time...
You are a motorcyclist, I say motorcyclist are wreckless as well, you get mad becuase I shouldn't be saYing that.
But then you go and say I'm a racer and racers are wreckless and im upset about it and dont think you should be saying that but it's OK for you to say that?
So the point is, if you get upset at me saying motorcyclist are wreckless, then you shouldn't be saying racers are wreckless.
So let me break it even down more...you can say something offensive...bu t nobody else can...
But whatever....I've explained it too many times..but you don't understand....
That is a double standard....
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Define trumpish for me...
If you can't or wont...
Well...it says alot.
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And also...if you thought you're buddy hung TU lo is your buddy trYing to double team me...
You realize you're not even in the demographic he considers to be important right?
But it's fine you, you'll just ignore that fact becuase right now it's Convenient he's help g to double team me...bravo...w ay to go...
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So...if you don't hold everyone accountable... .why did you say you would turn hmongs in? Even your own family member.....Rem ember that thread..I'm sure you do.....
Does "everyone" or every "family" member do crime or are criminals? And I've even said, if I went on a crime spree, I hope my family will try to get me help too...
Like in this thread, I don't hold "everyone" accountable, just those that continue to babble "pointless" BS without any "cite" (which they brought up btw) to back their false claims when they are wrong or make stuff up like I get "upset" when someone post something about "reckless" motorcyclists. I dare you to show me a thread where someone post something about "reckless" motorcyclists and I got "upset"...but I already know you can't due to your "pointless" ..."Trump minded" character...
I won't go into details...firs t you said yes..then no..then try to take attention away from your comments by asking the same question...
Looks like just what I said...you only like it when it's convenient or put you in a positive light...
You described yourself perfectly when you jumped around wagons claiming to be a Vikings' fan but as soon as they lost, you made fun of their fans such as yourself...
I'm curious what your definition of "trumpish" is? Can you answer that?
Yes, it's you!!! another PH member brought it up but I thought she was spot on...
And if you cant understand the motorcycle thing...I don't even know what to say...
I will try one last time...
You are a motorcyclist, I say motorcyclist are wreckless as well, you get mad becuase I shouldn't be saYing that.
But then you go and say I'm a racer and racers are wreckless and im upset about it and dont think you should be saying that but it's OK for you to say that?
So the point is, if you get upset at me saying motorcyclist are wreckless, then you shouldn't be saying racers are wreckless.
So let me break it even down more...you can say something offensive...bu t nobody else can...
But whatever....I've explained it too many times..but you don't understand....
That is a double standard....
I already challenged you to find a post where someone said something about "reckless" motorcyclists and I got "upset"....so I'll challenge you again..but I know it won't happen because just like your "pointless", "cite", and "invented" argument, you won't be able to...
If I'm "upset", why would I post about it myself and even showed you the thread that you also replied in to prove you wrong??
but again, nothing new with you and your Trumpish behaviors....
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Right...becuase that demographic would qualify most as knowing the most about what it is to be Hmong right?
EXACTLY! Thank you for supporting my point again. Man, you are on a roll just destroying yourself! You again showed that you do indeed believe there is a superficial measurement of how Hmong someone is. Basically, what you are saying is that a young Hmong person born in this country possibly cannot understand what it takes to be Hmong. Like I said in my last post, you may initially think we are all Hmong on one level, but as soon as someone doesn't speak Hmong to a certain degree, someone chooses not to be a part of their clan and/or clan activities, they choose not to own a single article of Hmong clothing, they don't know how to call their elders by title, your true identity comes out.
There is no standard to being Hmong, other than simply by virtue of being born Hmong. And it is elitistism/segregationism, conservative propaganda, and ignorance - like theposter and yeebkooj - that perpetuates this myth that you have to eat a certain kind of food, you have to speak a certain way, you have to dress a certain way, you have to be a certain way, in order to be considered worthy of an ethnicity.
This completely sums you up as a person and as a man:
Todays ladies...are nothing like that..so for me to have see somethig like that in the past and then to compare todays women to yesteryear's....
I say agian! If they cant garden, cook clean, etc etc..forget about considering yourself the backbone..
Women back then worked just as hard or even harder than men...
You wanna know or see how to be an awesome women? Go back to past some 20-30 years ago.
Tell me now that you have the same viewpoint as I do. Because I sure as heck am not misogynist or jerk myself off thinking back to the times when women served all of men's needs. Funny thing is, these older women would never want to go back and they envy the younger women who are independent, smart, educated, and full of life and energy. Not 18 years old with a child on the back, a child in the arms, and another one on the way. Your stories of nostalgia and romanticism shows nothing of the pain and suffering. Of course Hmong women were great at doing everything for the family - that's all they had! There was essentially nothing else for a Hmong woman to do but be force married at teenage. If you locked up me in a room with nothing but a bucket, I would be the greatest man at taking a shiit in a bucket because you've given me no other opportunities.
You described yourself perfectly when you jumped around wagons claiming to be a Vikings' fan but as soon as they lost, you made fun of their fans such as yourself...
poster watches NFL?! GASP Apparently, the "true" Hmong in this forum aren't even Hmong enough. The irony is killing me! :2funny: :idiot2: Why you sitting on your asss watching NFL? That's not being a good Hmong boy, kiddo. There's always some hu plig or funeral to attend and lend a helping hand. At the very least, you should be watching World Series of Rope Jumping.
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You two are laughable at best..
Both cant prove anything, narrow minded, likes to impose and project thier thoughts and ideas onto others as it being correct, obviously refuse to read previous posts...
Theking, its funnie how you change saying youd turn them in to youll get them help...theres a difference there..when you change the wording like that youre trying to deflect away from something youved said earlier becuase you kow it makes you look bad.
Hung tu lo....when you said i agreed with you...you realize that its not me agreeing with you rigjt? Theres a question mark at the end.
You two are the same...its pointless to debate with you two becuase you two are set in your on way of thinking .
Im actually a very good observationali st as well.
Im just curious as too why neither one of you wants to answer my questions?
Ill fill in the audience....it s becuase they know(well at least i hope they know, or they could just be clueless) theyll contradict everything theyve said.
Also...lets look at things...
You know...hung tu lo...youre really making up alot of things about me and trying to pass it off as true..all those things youve said about me ....well.... what if i told you i was a women? So pretty much you would have treated me just as bad or worse than how "thePoster" treats women based on your projected assumptions...
Wow...aint that something...yo u wont let me if i was a women speak or think for myself, or explain anything to me when i asked, called me names, drag my name through the mud....doesnt sound good at all huh?
Now if you was a female....what can be said about how i treated you? Just my opinion but...i could say i treated you fairly and in a civilized manner debate-wise.
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And if you wonder why im not out here telling the way i am, or what kinda good deeds ive done, etc etc...basicall y defending myself is becuase...well ...
Ill let you ponder on it.
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You two are laughable at best..
And you are just "pointless", period!...No wonder all the begging and no "photos" in return...
Both cant prove anything, narrow minded, likes to impose and project thier thoughts and ideas onto others as it being correct, obviously refuse to read previous posts...
Theking, its funnie how you change saying youd turn them in to youll get them help...theres a difference there..when you change the wording like that youre trying to deflect away from something youved said earlier becuase you kow it makes you look bad.
Hung tu lo....when you said i agreed with you...you realize that its not me agreeing with you rigjt? Theres a question mark at the end.
You two are the same...its pointless to debate with you two becuase you two are set in your on way of thinking .
Im actually a very good observationali st as well.
Im just curious as too why neither one of you wants to answer my questions?
Ill fill in the audience....it s becuase they know(well at least i hope they know, or they could just be clueless) theyll contradict everything theyve said.
Also...lets look at things...
You know...hung tu lo...youre really making up alot of things about me and trying to pass it off as true..all those things youve said about me ....well.... what if i told you i was a women? So pretty much you would have treated me just as bad or worse than how "thePoster" treats women based on your projected assumptions...
Wow...aint that something...yo u wont let me if i was a women speak or think for myself, or explain anything to me when i asked, called me names, drag my name through the mud....doesnt sound good at all huh?
Now if you was a female....what can be said about how i treated you? Just my opinion but...i could say i treated you fairly and in a civilized manner debate-wise.
Saids the guy that still hasn't able to provided any "cite" to back up his Hmong "invented" the "rubberband rope game"...even though it was him that brought up "cite"...
And he's babbling about "can't prove anything"...How "pointless"!!!
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Let me go back and see if can see where I said we invented it.
Let me do the work for you and hung TU lo since you two.....
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I looked....I don't see where I said it anywhere...
I know what you're going to quote already...but. ..did I say it? Nope!
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TheKing, how come you don't answer my questions?
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I looked....I don't see where I said it anywhere...
I know what you're going to quote already...but. ..did I say it? Nope!
Oh so now after all these posts, you're going to back pedal and say you've never said, "invented", what's next, you're gonna say you've never said, "cite" too... :idiot2:
Let me go back and see if can see where I said we invented it.
Let me do the work for you and hung TU lo since you two.....
While you're at it, take up my challenge and show me where I was "upset" when others talk about "reckless'' motorcyclists. ..or are you going to tuck and run...and continue to be pointless
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TheKing, how come you don't answer my questions?
Which one and is it "pointless"?
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Let me go back and see if can see where I said we invented it.
Let me do the work for you and hung TU lo since you two.....
I looked....I don't see where I said it anywhere...
I know what you're going to quote already...but. ..did I say it? Nope!
You've said, you didn't "see" it "anywhere" and you supposedly did the "work" for us...
I would not be pointing it out if you haven't said, "invented"...Below is what you've posted that got the ball rolling on "invented", I've even bold "invented" so you can "see" it. However, if you conveniently don't see it anywhere again, that's on you:
If you say I'm pointless, how come you can't make an arguement for it? 《-------- what that means is you citing some examples why I'm pointless.
But just like every other time you make some "doesn't make sense statement but you think it sounds fancily end all" you can't even back it up.
Also in what I quoted from you, by you still saying the hmongs adopted it, it's blatantly appearant you failed to see the point that the hmongs folks may have indeed "invented" it by ourselves. So go back and re-read the part about the pyramids and bow and arrows.
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There is no standard to being Hmong, other than simply by virtue of being born Hmong. And it is elitistism/segregationism, conservative propaganda, and ignorance - like theposter and yeebkooj - that perpetuates this myth that C have to eat a certain kind of food, you have to speak a certain way, you have to dress a certain way, you have to be a certain way, in order to be considered worthy of an ethnicity.
Hmig Too Low, you repeated that tired line several times already, yet haven't explained what Hmong entails... What are the traits, characteristic s, qualities, etc, which make a person Hmong as opposed to say, Lao or Viet?
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theKing, why dont you answer my questions?
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theKing, why dont you answer my questions?
Which one and is it as "pointless" as I don't see "invented" anywhere?
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Does this person identify him/herself as a Hmong?
Is the descendant of mixed ethnicities as illustrated below:
paternal maternal
great-grandparents (Hmong + Irish/German) great-grandparents (French + Latino)
grandparents (Hmong/Irish/German + Thai) grandparents (French/Latino + English/Italian)
father (Hmong/Irish/German/Thai) mother (French/Latino/English/Italian)
child ---------------> Hmong/Irish/German/Thai/French/Latino/English/Italian
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I'm not against interracial coupling. However, I do view it as a way of eroding identity in the long run, especially when it occurs in multiple steps. In fact, the Australians employed this engineering to phase out the Aborigines in the early turn of the century when eugenics was widely practiced.
It is harder to claim identity or relate when your own DNA has been heavily mixed. Biracial children have always claimed that they didn't fully identify or couldn't fully identify with either side. When that happens they lose a lot more than just identity, they lose culture.
Let me demonstrate using religion. Many religions are tied to the particular ethnic group that practices it. For example, Judaism is the result of the Israelites experiencing revelations from God. Since then, many non-Jews have converted to follow the God that revealed Himself to the Jews. Many of them follow because they believe the Jews experienced this revelation even though some have yet to experience it for themselves. Because they believe in the Jews' experience, many of them later come to have their own experiences. Until they have their own experience, they follow all the religious rites and customs without the same meaningful purpose as the Jews.
For example, why do so many Hmong participate in decorating a Christmas Tree? That was never part of our traditions or customs. We do it because it is mainstream America. But before it became mainstream it was really just the Germans. But even before the Germans it was the Scandinavian Vikings who found significance in the evergreen tree during winter solstice. They decorated it in order to entice the spirits return in spring. The Germans used this symbol as an effort to Christianize the pagans.
So why do Hmong put up a Christmas Tree? If it doesn't make sense for Hmong Christians to put up a Christmas tree then it's even more baffling that Hmong atheists or shamanists do it.
The point is that when things get watered down, people find new reasons but most of those reasons are hedonistic. In other words, we put up the Christmas tree because it is fun and festive.
The same thing happens to those who are the children of interracial couplings. For example, should someone who only has 1/10 of black in them feel all that outraged that some time long ago they had an ancestor who was a slave? This person probably does not feel as outraged as the black person who is and can fully identify as black. If they do feel outraged it is because society tells them they should be.
This is why even though all human beings have less than 1% of sub-sahara African in them, many of us do not identify with blacks.
Culture is important. It is part of identity but only holds true when interracial couplings occur infrequently.
If culture is important to identity but is also evolving, then which parts of the culture are the key identifiers of an ethnic group?
Language should be #1. Language is pretty unique to a group. It is the most important but also the easiest to lose especially as the world becomes global and very few ethnic groups live in isolation.
Just think about it. Why did God disperse the people at the Tower of Babel? Why was God so against them all speaking the same language?
If you don't believe in God, perhaps ask where languages come from and why they can be so vastly different.
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Thanks, all for your comments/replies. I pretty much briefed through it. The Poster, yep you guys did beat my dad to it. He threw the first in CO around 1984. It was over crowded because he didn't expect so many to show up. My mom sang a hmong chant about a butterfly and my sisters and I danced to it in Hmong clothes. I got sick afterwards 'cause it was super cold. I clearly remember watching a young teen dance to "Borderline" by Madonna and was in awe.
Anyway, Believe-in-Me, I'm not sure how this topic got into all this other stuff about race and mixing and stuff. But, I don't really believe that we all have African in us even if it is less than 1%. I heard somewhere that Africa was not the only place where human remains/bones were found; that when humans came into existence, it happened around the same time on different continents.
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Thanks, all for your comments/replies. I pretty much briefed through it. The Poster, yep you guys did beat my dad to it. He threw the first in CO around 1984. It was over crowded because he didn't expect so many to show up. My mom sang a hmong chant about a butterfly and my sisters and I danced to it in Hmong clothes. I got sick afterwards 'cause it was super cold. I clearly remember watching a young teen dance to "Borderline" by Madonna and was in awe.
Anyway, Believe-in-Me, I'm not sure how this topic got into all this other stuff about race and mixing and stuff. But, I don't really believe that we all have African in us even if it is less than 1%. I heard somewhere that Africa was not the only place where human remains/bones were found; that when humans came into existence, it happened around the same time on different continents.
That 1% African is the same 1% Asian you got to question where or how did that chart on Ancestry showing a person looking Meskas get it from??
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That 1% African is the same 1% Asian you got to question where or how did that chart on Ancestry showing a person looking Meskas get it from??
What?
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Thanks, all for your comments/replies. I pretty much briefed through it. The Poster, yep you guys did beat my dad to it. He threw the first in CO around 1984. It was over crowded because he didn't expect so many to show up. My mom sang a hmong chant about a butterfly and my sisters and I danced to it in Hmong clothes. I got sick afterwards 'cause it was super cold. I clearly remember watching a young teen dance to "Borderline" by Madonna and was in awe.
Anyway, Believe-in-Me, I'm not sure how this topic got into all this other stuff about race and mixing and stuff. But, I don't really believe that we all have African in us even if it is less than 1%. I heard somewhere that Africa was not the only place where human remains/bones were found; that when humans came into existence, it happened around the same time on different continents.
My response was based on all the other comments regarding preservation of culture. Some people implied that a person is Hmong simply by their DNA. Others said it was values and behavior. So I asked what of mixed children who neither valued or behaved in the ways expected of a traditional Hmong? Are they still Hmong if they have 1/5 of Hmong DNA?
As for the mentioning of Africa, it is based on a widely-known genetics study where geneticists were tracing xy chromosome markers for males.
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To answer your questions, I'm personally not worried about the evolving culture. I'm more concerned about how it's evolving, though. For example, I am purposeful in keeping the good and doing away with the not so good things (that no longer make sense in this society). I see some people trying to keep the culture for the sake of keeping the culture itself, which results in not adapting well to the current society. This probabaly does more harm than good.
To preserve things, we just need to document. If you are concerned about the original truths, then you should look into doing good documentations which will benefit everyone.
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For the love of God Hmong people, if you are adopting other cultures while abandoning your own, AT LEAST HAVE A GOOD UNDERSTANDING OF THE OTHER CULTURE FIRST AND WHY THEY DO IT.
STOP BASTARDIZING SOMEONE ELSE'S CULTURE BECAUSE YOU LOOK LEGITIMATELY STUPID.
'Cause damn, Mikey and Michael are the same name. Why you give your two sons the same name?
:idiot2: :idiot2: :idiot2: :idiot2: :idiot2: :idiot2: :idiot2: :idiot2: :idiot2:
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Hmong people will lose its identity due to modernization. Hmong culture, its' food and its' heritage all come from it's survival from the land, it's neighbors and the natural lifestyle of hunting, fishing, agriculture and social structure. All of these are going away just as the Anglo Americans once were. We see how they have lost their identity over time and we are in no way going to lose all of our identity. Take for example the Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, Taiwanese, Vietnamese etc. They are able to keep their identity only because they have a country to preserve and keep the prejudice, the close knit of lifestyle and the organization of their elders and laws. We Hmongs have non of these as we are assimilating in such a way that modernization is wiping the culture and heritage all at once. Words and dictions that we never experienced in our own terms are taken and being used from the English language. Can you say "atom" or "black holes" in the hmong language.
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Marriage and funeral rites are what distinguishes the Hmong from other cultures. You do not need a physical country to keep those customs alive. This is how the Jews preserved their culture during times when they were living dispersed across the globe.