PebHmong Discussion Forum
General Category => Hmong Culture & History => Topic started by: atthetop on March 30, 2017, 09:37:55 PM
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I believe the Hmong "northern origin" originated from Han Chinese migrating south and mixing/assimilating with the Yangtze River native, thus Hmong people begin adopting the idea of a northern origin.
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Once upon a time, there was a flood that was about to drown all inhabitants of the Earth.
Wealthy people began building metal enclosures to seal them up from drowning.
But, two poor orphan siblings--a pair of sister and brother--could not build metal balls to go into; so, they carved up a dry log and went inside.
The water flooded the whole Earth and all things and other people sank to the bottom. In time, the metal enclosures rusted and leaked. But the dry log kept floating above the water and into the edges of the Heavens, thereby causing bubbling sounds that were disturbing the gods above.
(Okay, I've put that in writing now. It should be factual about how we Hmong originated.)
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I believe the Hmong "northern origin" originated from Han Chinese migrating south and mixing/assimilating with the Yangtze River native, thus Hmong people begin adopting the idea of a northern origin.
You do realize that Hmong oral stated that we came from two origin Saub Ntuj* Ceeb Tsheej; which is pronoun ace as ShangDu JinCheng. And Ntais Ntuj*(you know that Hmong phrase betrayal of Rov taw tuam ntais ntuj). Dadu. Which are actually real place.
Saub Ntuj: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shangdu
Ntais Ntuj: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khanbaliq
*Please notice that Ntuj sounds like Ntuj(sky, heaven etc). But Ntuj is also mean as city. Ntuj = 天 = Tian for heaven. Ntuj = 都 = Du for city capital. You can blame our language to be not specific aspiration tone.
*We are not Mongols but the phrase do reference these places. And that is basically it.
Also the basic phrase Ua Tsaug = Thank You. Derives from Zhou = 周 (Not the Zhou Dynasty) = to be thoughtful and etc.
So to say we are not northern origin is a bit misleading. We are influence by very old Chinese language and inhabitant. This doesn't mean all of us are magically from Siberia or whatever. We only know for sure that around 1800s-1850s our ancestor just arrived in South East Asia from rebellion war.
One last note: My theory of the phrase "Rov taw tuam ntais ntuj" has nothing to do with Hmong killing Hmong(this Hmong killing Hmong is only recent by everyone). I say the phrase has to deal with the Red Turban Rebellion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Turban_Rebellion
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The full blooded Hmong migrated south. The Chinese killed most of the Hmong males that did not migrate and impregnate the Hmong females with Chinese seeds. The Hmong in china may claimed to be Hmong but they certainly are mixed now after many generations of dominant Chinese genes. :o
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(https://68.media.tumblr.com/f05f5729c11cf4254bdbed3f4a13542a/tumblr_onnqmoVsTF1qjdjmoo1_1280.jpg)
(https://68.media.tumblr.com/671443a4dca0e6f8a08229fb4f084e50/tumblr_onnqmoVsTF1qjdjmoo2_1280.jpg)
I believe the Hmong "northern origin" originated from Han Chinese migrating south and mixing/assimilating with the Yangtze River native, thus Hmong people begin adopting the idea of a northern origin.
Nobody trusts oral history except when that is where the clues begin.
It was long thought that the Shang Dynasty (predecessor of the Zhou) came into being when they overthrew the Xia Dynasty (ancestors of the Han.) The Xia were merely a myth according to both western and chinese scholars. However they've uncovered relics and architecture that proves their legitimacy.
https://thediplomat.com/2016/08/revealed-the-truth-about-chinas-legendary-xia-dynasty/
They also uncovered the great canal that Yu the Engineer had built (first emperor of the Xia.) The Xia once had a rival, the Jui Li Kingdom (the Nine Li tribes) ruled under the king Chi-You. After the Xia united with another kingdom did they topple the Jui Li Kingdom and slew Chi-You. The people of the Jui Li fled south to the San Miao tribes and become one people.
Nevermind the spelling, focus on the pronunciation. In Mandarin Jui sounds like the number nine in Hmong, Chi You sounds like Shi Yee and Xia when pronounced in Mandarin sounds close to Sia which is the Hmong word for Chinese/ Han Chinese. I find it strange that there are too many connections to be false when you put the evidence together. Both Hmong and Mandarin are Sino-tibetan languages, even sharing identical words with the very same meaning, others are closely similar only differing in pronunciation and tones but have the same meaning if measured together.
I'm not saying it's a fact but it could be a clue.
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