PebHmong Discussion Forum

General Category => Hmong Culture & History => Topic started by: TheAfterLife on January 14, 2014, 07:38:58 PM

Title: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: TheAfterLife on January 14, 2014, 07:38:58 PM
I just had a good curiosity question about the Jaw Harp instruments that we see everyday in our culture. I don't see other asians play this instruments except for us. I assume that we might've originated from Europe or Middle East since Jews play this. I don't know, but I would like for some people to clarify about this Jaw Harp because I don't know HOW it got into our culture in the first place. It's either we come from Europe or Middle East. What's your opinion?
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: TruthAboveKnowledge on January 16, 2014, 03:37:40 AM
TheAfterLife,

I will try to help you understand in your walk for finding what you are trying to search for.  In some of my writings, I have specifically said time and time again that I feel that the Hmongs have very close ties to some of the practices and customs of the Middle East.  You are certainly correct in the sense that the Jaw Harp was a very common instrument for us Hmong and from the Middle East.

But my writing here will try to establish some validity on the cultural and origin of the Hmong people.  Here is my story and it's going to be a rather lengthy one, I will try to make it short as I possibly can.

The Hmongs are known for their clothing, the clothing identify them as to what people they belong to.  Here, in our case there are the Green Hmongs and the White Hmongs.  The White Hmongs have limited clothing design and it can be seen from the dresses of the female White Hmongs.  Taken from the questions I have ask from many older Hmong people, I found one answer that seems to echo with a repeating answer.  Many of the older Green Hmong believe that the design of their clothing is their language, their history and their origin.  Sadly no one has come up with an answer that can be told other then folklore and folktales.  What we need is hard evidence and hard facts linking the folklores and folktales to what has been orally passed down.

In my walk, I have used many materials trying to link evidence as to the origin of the Hmong, such as what you have taken note on the Jaw Harp.  In this case, I dealt directly with the Hmong clothing, their design, their tales and customs.  This immediately brought me to ask how the Hmongs made their clothing, surely there must be clues in the weaving of the material used to make the cloth and how it was obtain from the 1st step in processing the raw material to the beautiful ornate costume it came into being.  My parents used to tell us how they were taught making their own clothing from raw materials, how they dyed the colors and how the threads were loomed together to form the sheet of cloth later to be made into being.

This came about a particular study into the Persian and Oriental Rugs.  Oddly, I didn't want to carpet my living room and was more incline to make better use of an area rug and that was when I became fascinated with the details and processes of these Persian and Oriental Rugs.  I did a small research and found that the Persian Rugs and the Oriental Rugs have many of the same quality and features.  The way they were loomed, the looming tools, methods and processes were very similar.  Perhaps the only difference between the two rugs were the design from its creator.  Nevertheless, the similarities were so strikingly similar…so much so that in both rugs the ones made out of silk were the most decorated and most expensive.  Silk worms that produced this raw material rarely exist in the middle east but there were plentiful in the far east.  We do know from archeological sources that the Silk Road was the main highway from the middle east to the far east.  The Silk Road was where herbs and spices used as medicinal ailments for curing the body was traded for silk fabrics from the Far East.  Many plants and spices were used as a dye agent to put color into the raw material for a specific color, in turn, for the various designs and symbols for various religious beliefs.

As I pursue the step by step process of how these rugs were made I realized that we Hmong had to have been in the middle of it somewhere along the line.  What I found was startling.  Here are a few YouTube videos that I hope will help you in establishing your thoughts and ideas.  I also want you to note that the gentleman explaining the details of the symbols within the rug is well versed in signs and symbols.  These signs and symbols were later adopted by the Europeans….up even until now.  They can be understood by anyone who was deep into the study of symbols and numerology, the esoteric of things all around.  He mentioned about "Flower of Life", Death and Resurrection, The Bunny Rabbit as a sign of fertilization etc.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quKqY_wctMU#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quKqY_wctMU#ws)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAexbVeonMY#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAexbVeonMY#ws)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmp8LBv2syc#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmp8LBv2syc#ws)

Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: VillainousHero on February 17, 2014, 10:14:52 AM
The origin of Hmong is should be thought of not a race of people, but more like a culture or way of life made my a group of people.
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: minorcharacter on February 17, 2014, 10:40:39 AM
Not necessarily.  The harp or a predecessor could have possibly predated both the Hmong and Middle Eastern culture.  Look into the Altaic people for more explanations.  Also, great job using the word "hypothesis" most idiots I know are too fast to use the word "theory."
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: Wi_sweetguy on February 26, 2014, 02:08:57 AM
Hey bro.
You concluded a hypothesis.  Now it is time to go and make an Observation, write down date and bring us your conclusion.   O0
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: King_Kong on March 07, 2014, 07:23:00 AM
I just had a good curiosity question about the Jaw Harp instruments that we see everyday in our culture. I don't see other asians play this instruments except for us. I assume that we might've originated from Europe or Middle East since Jews play this. I don't know, but I would like for some people to clarify about this Jaw Harp because I don't know HOW it got into our culture in the first place. It's either we come from Europe or Middle East. What's your opinion?
My hypothesis? We acquired it from the Middle east via the "Silk Road".
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: King_Kong on March 07, 2014, 07:30:49 AM
And no we are not the missing "Tribe" of Jews nor bear any relations to Biblical races.
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: dogmai on March 07, 2014, 05:51:36 PM
Agree. I'd say we are close to persians and babylonians. However, we are related to the Jews from an Abraham decedent since Ishmael's tribes are still out there.

How so? Please explain the relationship.
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: Reporter on March 08, 2014, 07:43:38 PM
Not necessarily.  The harp or a predecessor could have possibly predated both the Hmong and Middle Eastern culture.  Look into the Altaic people for more explanations.  Also, great job using the word "hypothesis" most idiots I know are too fast to use the word "theory."

How is theory any better than hypothesis? Aren't they both just guesses still?
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: Reporter on March 08, 2014, 07:44:11 PM
Hey bro.
You concluded a hypothesis.  Now it is time to go and make an Observation, write down date and bring us your conclusion.   O0

Yeah, like prove it!
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: Reporter on March 08, 2014, 07:45:08 PM
Agree. I'd say we are close to persians and babylonians. However, we are related to the Jews from an Abraham decedent since Ishmael's tribes are still out there.

So the Bible has something to do with us, huh? Even before the 1952 conversion in Laos? And the 1905 conversion in China?
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: Reporter on March 08, 2014, 07:45:47 PM
How so? Please explain the relationship.

Some people just think that we have close family ties like the Jews do. Is that enough? No.
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: VillainousHero on March 08, 2014, 07:46:06 PM
How is theory any better than hypothesis? Aren't they both just guesses still?

Theory requires a few hypothesis that have proof behind it.  So theory should be the next step after hypothesis.
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: Reporter on March 10, 2014, 01:30:11 AM
Theory requires a few hypothesis that have proof behind it.  So theory should be the next step after hypothesis.

OK. So theory is getting closer to truth. I see. Thanks. ;D
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: duckwingduck on March 10, 2014, 08:16:23 AM
You really want to be a jew?  Taht's enough evidence to proof that Hmong are jewish.  :)
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: TruthAboveKnowledge on March 19, 2014, 05:11:51 PM
You can say that Hmong are close related to Islamic people through one traditional musical instrument, which is the Jaw Harp.

Now you are thinking!  The most savage people out there are the asians.  Historically speaking, Hmong people have not even been into the stone age yet, less the iron and metal age.  They don't even know how to use straw to make bricks or use lime as a mortar ingredient. 
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: duckwingduck on April 11, 2014, 09:18:03 AM
AfterLife, since you want to be a jew so much, let me declare you a jew.  Now happy?
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: Wi_sweetguy on April 11, 2014, 12:18:18 PM
AfterLife, since you want to be a jew so much, let me declare you a jew.  Now happy?

LOL.... After much debate and listening to his presentation, I concluded that he's happy where he's going and I'm rooting for his success. AL, do what makes you happy.  O0
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: duckwingduck on April 11, 2014, 12:22:58 PM
LOL.... After much debate and listening to his presentation, I concluded that he's happy where he's going and I'm rooting for his success. AL, do what makes you happy.  O0

He's working  hard to confirm that he is a jew.  So, I'm just helping him by confirming that he is a jew. 
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: thenewbguy on April 14, 2014, 10:44:33 AM
Agree. I'd say we are close to persians and babylonians. However, we are related to the Jews from an Abraham decedent since Ishmael's tribes are still out there.

Considering the Bible is a book with little historical corroboration, especially the Old Testament, how can you state that as a fact? Where is your evidence that Abraham was even a real person that we have become his descendants? Is this just some wishful thinking B.S. you learned in church?
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: k3v|n on April 18, 2014, 10:58:02 AM
My head hurts from reading all of this and it only prove we can't get alone at all.

"Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths." (Proverbs 3:5-6)
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: todspengo on April 22, 2014, 05:56:49 PM
Here we go again. Seems like every six months or so someone post a something trying to link Hmong people to the bible to further establish their faith. Now that all the speculation is done, I'll present some current information from people with PhD's in various fields of studies who, for some reason or another, seems fascinated with Hmong people.

First, a little Wikipedia about the jew harp. (disclaimer: Wikipedia is not a reliable source for academic research, but this is not an academic paper)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew%27s_harp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew%27s_harp)

This instrument is considered to be one of the oldest musical instruments in the world;[1] a musician apparently playing it can be seen in a Chinese drawing from the 4th century BC. [2] Despite its common English name, and the sometimes used Jew's trump, it has no particular connection with Jews or Judaism. This instrument is native to Asia and used in all tribes of Turkic peoples in Asia, among whom it is variously referred to as a temir komuz (literally, iron komuz), agiz komuzu (literally, mouth komuz), gubuz or doromb.

Now a little bit about tracing DNA.
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0024282 (http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0024282)

Summery of this article: Modern East Asians have DNA marker is 03. Three main group share this marker. Hmong (03a3b), Han, and Tibetan (03a3c). This suggest they share a common origin. (Sorry, bubble burst. Hmong are not Southeast Asians or Northeast Asians (Koreans))

Inverview with Ayouduo from youtube account niam txiv . He has some interesting videos. Look him up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5C7GOHXh0k#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5C7GOHXh0k#ws)

"Archeologists and historians have suggested that the proto-H-M might be linked with the Neolithic culture in the Middle Reach of the Yangtze River in southern China (Fei 1999), including the Daxi Culture (5,300–6,400 YBP) and the Qujialing Culture (4,600–5,000 YBP). Haplogroup B5a, which is very homogeneous and shows a star-like phylogeny, accounts for 11% of H-M mtDNAs and exists in most of the H-M populations. The estimated age of B5a in H-M is 6,000 ± 2, 000 YBP. Another lineage, the motif 16129–16189–16217–16261, is strongly H-M–specific and is present in 8 of the 17 H-M populations. The estimated age of this lineage is 3,560 ± 2, 050 YBP. Furthermore, 23 D4 mtDNAs from 10 H-M populations share the same motif ,19092–16223–16362, which is very rare in other populations. Coalescence time of the D4 mtDNAs with this motif is estimated at 4,000 ± 2, 000 YBP. All these estimations are well in line with the age of the two aforementioned cultures excavated in southern China. The study of ancient DNA from the Daxi Culture and Qujialing Culture would be of great importance to verify the possible affiliations of H-M and these Neolithic cultures" (Bo Wen et al, 2004)

"A high frequency of O3d was only found in Daxi Culture. O3d is very rare in modern populations; Hmong-Mien populations have been found to contain a small proportion of O3d (Feng 2007). Among those Hmong-Mien populations, She and Bunu were found to have the highest frequency of O3d (Su et al. 1999). Since O3d occurs at low frequency in the Hmong-Mien, the ancient people of Daxi Culture might be the ancestors of the modern populations of Hmong-Mien. The absence of O3d in the historical examples from the Daxi site (it might not have been found because of the small sample size), and the migration of modern Hmong-Mien populations to the southwest might
indicate that the prehistoric population in the Three Gorges area has been replaced." (Hui Li et al, 2007)

A little history of the Hmong time in Laos. Older article but very accurate.
http://www.akha.org/content/drugwar/mccoy/23.htm (http://www.akha.org/content/drugwar/mccoy/23.htm)

Creation to the Flood
Creation: 4000 B.C. (we don't know how long Adam and Eve lived in the Garden before their exile.)
Adam: 4000 B.C. – 3070 B.C. (Genesis 2:7; 5:5)
Methuselah: 3350 B.C. – 2350 B.C. (Genesis 5:21; 5:27)
Noah: 2950 B.C. – 2000 B.C. (Genesis 5:29; 9:29)
Flood: 2350 B.C. (Genesis 6-9)

Read more: http://www.compellingtruth.org/Old-Testament-timeline.html#ixzz2zeqy4MZq (http://www.compellingtruth.org/Old-Testament-timeline.html#ixzz2zeqy4MZq)

Daxi Culture (5,300–6,400 YBP)

Daxi predates the old testament by approximately 2400 years. This means that something had already created the Hmong 2400 before God created Adam and Eve, therefore, Hmong can't be Jews.
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: dlabtsi_os on May 06, 2014, 05:16:31 AM
How is theory any better than hypothesis? Aren't they both just guesses still?

Hypothesis is the questioning of an assumption of a cause and effect phenomenon. Theory is a tested hypothesis.
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: Gracified23 on June 14, 2014, 06:30:17 PM


Daxi Culture (5,300–6,400 YBP)

Daxi predates the old testament by approximately 2400 years. This means that something had already created the Hmong 2400 before God created Adam and Eve, therefore, Hmong can't be Jews.

You were there all 6,400 of those years?
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: dlabtsi_os on July 21, 2014, 06:31:17 AM
Hmm, that's something new--except for the Han Chinese since we are related to the Han Chinese. However, my question is this: Was Chiyou's ethnicity Hmong, Korean, or both?

My money is more on Dong Yi or Man Yi, and other Miao. Although Hmong may have connection with Miao; Chi You may or may not be Hmong ancestry. I use to think Hmong is part of a group belonging to San Miao. But now not so sure. One reason is that some document stated Miao has been around Southern China for about 2000 years. Compare to another source stated Hmong in China; most tend to say Hmong reach Nanjing/Nanking somewhere between Sui/Yuan/Ming. So I still need confirmation from both side.

As for todspengo mtdna is also somewhat flaw. From my basic understanding because mtdna refer the mitochondria from mother to child. Anything can happened to the mother. Intermarriage, adoption, assimilation and etc. Worst case scenario, rape. As for migration pattern some stay some leave. I think look at both y paternal chromosome sample and mtdna to draw a clearer picture would be suffice.

And to end it with it niamtxiv do have interesting view. However I also recommend watching Hmonguniverse video as well. Both videos uploader show two different opinion. And I thinking competing theory benefits all of us. Just an advice ignore some of the comments in niamtxiv and HmongUniverse they're spammed.
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: chidorix0x on July 21, 2014, 12:12:01 PM
My money is more on Dong Yi or Man Yi, and other Miao. Although Hmong may have connection with Miao; Chi You may or may not be Hmong ancestry. I use to think Hmong is part of a group belonging to San Miao. But now not so sure. One reason is that some document stated Miao has been around Southern China for about 2000 years. Compare to another source stated Hmong in China; most tend to say Hmong reach Nanjing/Nanking somewhere between Sui/Yuan/Ming. So I still need confirmation from both side.

As for todspengo mtdna is also somewhat flaw. From my basic understanding because mtdna refer the mitochondria from mother to child. Anything can happened to the mother. Intermarriage, adoption, assimilation and etc. Worst case scenario, rape. As for migration pattern some stay some leave. I think look at both y paternal chromosome sample and mtdna to draw a clearer picture would be suffice.

And to end it with it niamtxiv do have interesting view. However I also recommend watching Hmonguniverse video as well. Both videos uploader show two different opinion. And I thinking competing theory benefits all of us. Just an advice ignore some of the comments in niamtxiv and HmongUniverse they're spammed.


LMAO! Yeah, definitely question anything/everything this "nut job" has to say about Hmong and Miao.

Based off of my personal research, continued research, and personally opinion (belief), Hmong/Mong are not Middle Eastern (or Jews, or remotely linked whatsoever) despite having some biblical similiarity; namely the "world flood folklore", "jaw harp", and "babel tower folklore" among a few other.  (It can be said that nearly every other ethnicity has some traits, customs, and practices that can found within the Bible also, but yet are clearly not related whatsoever.  No examples needed.)  Hmong/Mong is arguably known (found) to be exclusively have originated in China, and to an extent traceable to Siberia.  (I saw a documentary years ago, with actual footage, of a race of people who lived in Siberia pre-19th century who could easily be Hmong, or at least Asian in ethnicity.  They definitely were not Russian, or European.  They practiced shamanism, did embroidery, and "YES" played the jaw harp -- nearly identical to Hmong's.  I forget exactly what these people were called.  "NO", they were not called Hmong, or Miao.)

Lastly, I/"no one" can say definitively that Hmong/Mong is Miao, or are descendants of "Chi You".  Again, I personally believe Hmong/Mong is LESS and LESS Miao (San Miao), or a descendant of "Chi You" than most Western Hmong/Mong -- especially "niamtxiv" -- wishes or wants to believe (preach).  FACT:  "Miao" is not an ethnicity, like Hmong/Mong, Lao, Thai, Viet, French, British, or even American per say.  "Miao" is simply an ALL EXCLUSIVE term (grouping/label) used in China to mean "SPECIFICALLY NON-Han/Chinese".  "Miao" compromise of over 55+ ethnic minority groups in China which Hmong/Mong happens to be one of.  To say or claim "Miao=Hmong/Mong" and "Hmong/Mong=Miao" is utter ignorance, and idiotic. (That's what "niamtxiv" will profusely and ignorantly claim and preach.)
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: chidorix0x on July 21, 2014, 12:29:24 PM
Hmm, that's something new--except for the Han Chinese since we are related to the Han Chinese. However, my question is this: Was Chiyou's ethnicity Hmong, Korean, or both?

Neither!  Nor is Chiyou Japanese, despite the Japanese making a similar (exact) lineage proclamation.  (Nowadays, even the "known", and existing/remaining descendants of Chiyou -- still living in China, in the exact same location, and birthplace of Chiyou -- do not even know who or what they are ethnically; Hmong, Korean, Japanese, Chinese, or Miao.  This is documented, and already researched by Miao/Chinese scholars/historians.)  All they know is that they are (arguably) Chiyou's descendants, as told to them by their elders and all of their folklore (oral history).

Western Hmong, especially the likes of "niamtxiv", is only "bandwagoning" on the premise that since it is accepted that Chiyou is "NOT" Chinese (Han/Manchu), and that there once existed a "San Miao" kingdom; again being "NON-Chinese" that it must mean (infer) this is Hmong and a Hmong kingdom.  That is NOT SO, nor TRUE whatsoever.  There is NO scientific, archeological, or irrefutable historic data, records, or accounts; especially on Hmong's behalf to even remotely suggest this theory, or claim.  More than not, it is pure hypothesis and "wishful thinking" simply because Chiyou and "San Miao" is without a doubt "NOT" Chinese.  (The "QIN" kingdom, if memory is correct, is also known without a doubt to be "NOT" Chinese per all matters of scholarship, yet you do not hear Western Hmong preaching and claiming it is Hmong.  Now, why is that?)
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: chidorix0x on September 18, 2014, 09:16:42 PM
Then how do you explain the Jaw Harp?

There are at least 4 very unique, arguably non-related ethnicity that I know of, likely more, who all have been researched/documented, and are entirely unrelated whether by origin, native homeland, and/or bloodline (ancestry), yet all have and play the "Jaw Harp".  They are Hmong, Tibetan, Jews, and an aboriginal Siberian people (I forget their exact name).

(Some historians/researchers have argued that these types of commonly found/shared artifacts/instruments were/are a product of trade, or immigration, and chance meeting throughout the ages when man (various ethnicity) traveled the globe in search of fertile land and preferred places of settlement, whether by choice, famine, or warfare etc..)
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: chidorix0x on September 18, 2014, 09:36:34 PM
Chi You is our leader since it is what the hill tribes have claim to be. I just found that Hmong are somewhat Cantonese since I have talked to a Cantonese lady, to which she claims, "Miao." Although, I don't accept the term Miao because it is RACIST since Hmong people called themselves "Hmoob Swv," rather than Miao. I heard them saying "Hmoob Swv."

...
...

Anyway, since Hmoob Swv and Cooj Was (Wah) are related somehow, Hmong people use to live in the lands of the Cantonese, close to Beijing (Bay Ching {In Hmong: Baj Tshib}). Just remember, we are Hmoob Swv, which is the PROPER WAY of saying our name...NOT MIAO TXU!

Never heard of, or not sure where you got "Hmoob Swv" from?  (To my knowledge, and from all my personal research, I have never come across that term -- whether in Hmong, Chinese, or any other language (written document/historical record(s)).)  Care to share your references/resources/books/articles?  The word "Hmoob Swv", as it appears is definitely RPA Hmong -- not any other language I am familiar with.  Plus I have never heard any Hmong, old gen or new gen, ever referring to, or calling Hmong by that term/name ever?  Again, cite your resources, as I am curious in and of/about this new terminology, and its origin, and application.

For the record, Cantonese is mostly (mainly) used to differentiate language, specifically meaning non-Mandarin, then an ethnic identity.  When a Chinese say (call) themselves "Cantonese", it typically means they speak the "Cantonese language" and not the "Mandarin language".  Plus, Cantonese are mainly (arguably exclusively) found, and are the citizens of Taiwan (and Hong Kong), not mainland China.  Some/most Taiwanese/Cantonese would argue they are not Chinese (Han/Manchu), despite having the same ancestry, or exact bloodline.  Point is, Hmong IS NOT Cantonese period, or Chinese either.  That "wishful thinking" (hypothesis) is pure nonsense/ignorance, and poor research (fact-finding).  Despite sharing some (a lot) of history, culture, surnames etc. etc. with the Chinese, DNA evidence proves Hmong and Chinese are as different as Europeans and Africans.
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: dogmai on September 18, 2014, 09:41:24 PM
(Some historians/researchers have argued that these types of commonly found/shared artifacts/instruments were/are a product of trade, or immigration, and chance meeting throughout the ages when man (various ethnicity) traveled the globe in search of fertile land and preferred places of settlement, whether by choice, famine, or warfare etc..)

Without researching, these reasons were my first thoughts.
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: chidorix0x on September 24, 2014, 01:51:42 AM
http://www.pebhmong.com/forum/index.php/topic,361430.0.html (http://www.pebhmong.com/forum/index.php/topic,361430.0.html)

LMAO!!!  (*yawns*)

***  Couldn't you have cited Wiki instead  ...  kekeke  ...   >:D
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: chidorix0x on September 25, 2014, 02:50:06 AM
No need to. I am taking Chinese this semester. Even ayouduo says hmongshi ( hmoob swv) as well.

LMAO!  (See video link below. Directly from the horse's, aka ayoudou's, mouth.)

Fact 1:  A Chinese course, whether one semester or lifelong, will never ever mention the word/term "hmongshi" (hmoob swv). However, the word/term "MIAO", then yes, absolutely! And if per chance, exploring Chinese ethnic minorities, you may come across the word/term Hmongb/Mongb -- in English of course, NOT Chinese. But if you/anyone is just simply studying Chinese -- the language -- then chances are you will never hear, see, or even come across the term/terms hmongshi (hmoob swv), hmongb, or mong.  But "MIAO", most indefinitely.

Fact 2:  Ayoudou had/has no clue what Hmong (or "hmongshi" is) as evidenced in this video interview, including any/all her video interviews.  Nor once did, and has she ever said the word/term "hmongshi" (hmoob swv), or arguably Hmong/Mong for that matter.  But "MIAO", oh ayoudou, has said, claimed, and mentioned that all the time.  (Ignorance is bliss.  I have an IDEA (pretty sure I know) where you might have gotten your "hmongshi" (hmoob swv) mumbo-jumbo from. You totally misunderstood that, actually THOSE words ... HAHA!  It wasn't "hmongshi" (hmoob swv) ... HAHA!  In fact, it is "Mong and Shuo", or "Mong Shuo".  Do you even know what this/these WORDS mean?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRhrjtd1ApE#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRhrjtd1ApE#ws)
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: chidorix0x on September 28, 2014, 05:57:51 PM
As I am taking Chinese class this semester, what my teacher say to me that they call us Hmongshi (Hmoob Swv). If you go to Guizhou (In Hmong: Gweb tsauj), they will say that to you. I rather trust my Chinese teacher instead of this stuff.

*giggles*  Yes, please put your faith, belief, and inherent ethnicity in the hands, words, and inscription of a foreign race, ethnicity, and outsider.

Hint:  Caucasians called (labeled) Native Americans "Indians" (or Red Men), called (labeled) Africans "blacks" (or worst), and called Asians, well, "Asians" (Yellow Men -- yes, and worst); whereas many/all "Asians" inherently have (still do) call themselves per ethnicity; Koreans, Thai, Lao, Vietnamese, Japanese, Mongols, Hmong/Mong etc. etc..

You unknowingly (ignorantly, gullibly) may have misunderstood your Chinese teacher -- to no fault of theirs likely -- regarding the term/label you have nonchalantly embraced.  I would be happy to enlighten you on the language (pronunciation) disparity/continuity, but as you said, "I rather trust my Chinese teacher ..."  ...  so be it  ...  kekeke  ...   >:D  (Did you know the Chinese refer to themselves as "Han Swv"? NO.  NO WAY! )
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: chidorix0x on September 30, 2014, 03:05:10 AM
Chinese are called Tshoob Nkuav (Zhonggou). Try going to china and u will see that the hmong in China will call u that. If you want the real truth, go there. Truth isn't free, for there is a price to pay. I am not ignorant. I rather not to be called Miao Tzu since I would rather to be called Hmong or Hmoob Swv. I also have a video cassette of Hmong people in China who accept the term of Hmoob Swv, but not Miao. Please, don't call me ignorant one but u r.

Oh!  So now it is " ... Hmong people in China ... accept the term Hmoob Swv ...", and not your Chinese language teacher spoon-feeding you, or giving you that foreign inscription?

Zhonggou, means "China".  It does not directly mean (equate to/infer) "Chinese".  Zhonggou-ren means (infers) "Chinese.  It is like the words America and Americans.  The former is land, and the latter its people.  You are welcome.  *smiles*  (And "tshoob nkuav" is a Hmong word; the Hmong-glization of Chinese words, like how English "Anglicize" Hmong words:  blong=nplooj, sia=xia, chong=coob, etc. etc..)

See/recall this (your statement):  (But keep learning.  It seems you have yet a lot to learn, so don't ponder ignorantly (endlessly) on "Hmoob Swv", despite the answer(s) (truth) being already right before your very "eyes" ... :) .  You just failed to see it  ...  kekeke.
As I am taking Chinese class this semester, what my teacher say to me that they call us Hmongshi (Hmoob Swv). ...
...
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: todspengo on October 07, 2014, 01:16:06 AM
I think what afterlife meant by Hmong swv is Hmong zu. Minzu is a borrowed Japanese word that translates close to haiv neeg. It's pronounced minv txwm, but the tone changes to txwv when used after an ethnic name as in miaov txwv. Zhongkuo is pronounced tsoov kuam. Tsoov means nruab and kuam means teb. Beijing is pronounced pev ceej, and means North capital, and it means the same thing in Hmong. You might hear it as pem ceeb tsheej. In mandarin, bei is north, dong is east, nan is south, and xi is west. In Hmong, the equivalent is pev, tod, nra, and tiv. Hmong is not like Cantonese, it is more like Wu the language spoken in and around Shanghai. It is commonly accepted in the languistic community that the Wu language is sinicized Hmong

http://www.cscanada.net/index.php/ccc/article/view/623/0.

The word miao only has a bad connotation if you allow it to. If you embrace it, then it won't bother you when someone uses it to put you down. And if it doesn't bother you, then people have no reason to use it because there isn't the satisfaction of seeing you all riled up.

On the mtdna. That's not my study, and I did credit the person I quoted.
Title: Re: My hypothesis of the Origin of the Hmong
Post by: HUNG TU LO on October 15, 2014, 07:31:12 PM
Wu was an original kingdom during the kingdom/states wars before China was unified. They had their own language. The entirety of Hmong was not a part of any particular kingdom - we didn't have the technology, weapons, solidarity, etc.

So how can Wu be sinicized Hmong? There's no way that a rag-tag minority group like Hmong could have such an impact on a Chinese dialect and there are no documented historical links. I'm going to have to disagree with this and say that you're wrong.