PebHmong Discussion Forum
General Category => Hmong Culture & History => Topic started by: theking on April 25, 2016, 01:55:10 AM
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His mom passed away so I went to pay my respect. Since I donated some money, he and his brother came over, and tried to do kowtow. I told him, that they better stop or I'll kick his ass. His older brother said, this is "kev cai" so it has to be done but I stopped them, and let them know that they don't need to do or say anything as it was my choice to stop by and pay respect. And if they really feel the need to do/say something, a simple thank you would be more than enough. I also let them know that since it's 2016 and we live America, it's time to let go of that old unnecessary practice... :)
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Older Hmong folks get offended not being acknowledged, thus is why they still practice it.
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umm... kowtow?
Yep.
I just think it's just silly to do this in this day and age especially to someone that's like your brother or family...:
(http://gatesofvienna.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/kowtow.jpg)
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Take it this way, it is like you ask your cousins to take off their shoes before entry to your home. They might think you are silly but will do as you request. sometimes, it is good to :-X and respect what people wanted.
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lol reminds of a time when me and cousin try to do that to my uncle, i pretty much let him go since he didnt want us to bow down but my cousin insist on thanking him and didnt want to let him go so my uncle try to yank his arm off him and he accidentally pull too hard and he tip over some chairs making a loud noise, I remember everyone looking at his saying in there head wth are these guys doing lol, then my grandpa told us if they dont want us to bow down dont bow down just say thank you
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Pretty much this. Just a sign of respect and thank you.
It's like, whenever my brothers buy stuff for me or offer to pay knowing my current situation as a student.
If I say thank you. They'll say something along the lines of "We're brothers, you don't need to thank me." Or "We're family, we look out for eachother."
I get it. We don't need to do that. But I still do. It's part of who I am.
in all honesty. I woudl rather someone do that and show signs of grattitude, rather than someone not do it.
Just wait until he does it again and only one person just turn to him and say "ua tsaug"... that's it nothing more. He'll be in here complaining again about not getting respect. ;D ;D
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Take it this way, it is like you ask your cousins to take off their shoes before entry to your home. They might think you are silly but will do as you request. sometimes, it is good to :-X and respect what people wanted.
I don't ask people to take off their shoes when they come to my house but taking shoes off is a practice that people do mainly to keep the floors clean (not much symbolic about it). Kowtow on the other hand requires a person to get on the ground and beg for mercy or thank you like you're their master/god. Regardless of how much money I've donated or helped out, I will not let anyone get down on their knees in front of me to bow down with their heads all the way down to the floor like I'm their master if I can help it. Again, for me, a simple thank you is more than sufficient. It's 2016 in America, it's not necessary to do that IMO.
A person doing this in front of me just doesn't seem right or humane to me:
(http://gatesofvienna.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/kowtow.jpg)
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I don't ask people to take off their shoes when they come to my house but taking shoes off is a practice that people do mainly to keep the floors clean (not much symbolic about it). Kowtow on the other hand requires a person to get on the ground and beg for mercy or thank you like you're their master/god. Regardless of how much money I've donated or helped out, I will not let anyone get down on their knees in front of me to bow down with their heads all the way down to the floor like I'm their master if I can help it. Again, for me, a simple thank you is more than sufficient. It's 2016 in America, it's not necessary to do that IMO.
A person doing this in front of me just doesn't seem right or humane to me:
(http://gatesofvienna.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/kowtow.jpg)
People still do the bow down thing? I've not seen that for the longest time. That is kind of weird to see that... usually they just do the thank you chanting thing.
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People still do the bow down thing? I've not seen that for the longest time. That is kind of weird to see that... usually they just do the thank you chanting thing.
Some still do...
It's OK for those that still want practice it but it just doesn't seem right to me in this day and age...
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:2funny: :2funny: oi! qhov niag me me xwb tseem yuav "KICK! nws ass thiab?" heev dhau lawm pob?
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I don't want to sound mean, but you have to see it from their perspective... .
Maybe it is not important to you, but it is important to them. It is kinda selfish to not let them do it simply so that YOU feel better. It is their event, the least you could do is respect their practices. If you want to tell them that they don't need to do it, then fine. However, to threaten to kick their ass for it? That's a bit extreme.
Think of it this way: If you don't exchange gifts for Christmas, then fine. However, you should still at least accept a gift if one is given to you. Why? Because you accepting the gift is important to them. There is no need to kick their ass for giving you a gift.
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It means as much to them to show respect and gratitude as much as it means to you to offer yours. It's not an obligation. But it is a tradition that's deeply rooted in the poverty of our forefathers.
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It's doesn't matter. No wonder why Mao Ze Dong tries to destroy the old culture of Chinese. Mao wasn't Hmong, but he was BORN in the country of Hmong. I respect that and rest my case.
I'm not sure what your point was. But I am interested in what you meant.
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My female friend donated once and they refused to thank her and she was upset. Since it was a traditional funeral she pleaded her case and they finally thanked her. Double standards in our culture.
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Well, that's unfortunate, stupid and sad all at the same time in regards to "double standard" NH...
Gender shouldn't and should have never been a factor back in history or now...IMO.
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She wanted the same respect that's given to men during such an event.
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Nah, what’s so bad and unnecessary about “pe” for “ua rau kevcai?” So what if this is the West now. That alone should not kill off the practice/culture. If there’s still a place for it, which there is, then keep it.
The issue is your definition. You call it “kowtowing” rather than “bowing.” The connotation of the former is to submit and be subservient when the latter is to show appreciation, courtesy, and respect in a benign manner.
The picture of the Chinese kowtowing to the official is pretty much forced upon him, or else some sort of negative results occur. On the other hand the Xyom Cuab’s family members bowing is done with no coercion and no consequence. Just water off a ducks’ back. Big difference.
That’s like thinking or saying the act of sex (penetration) reminds you of rape, so should be outlawed. They share the same or similar physical actions but are entirely different in intention.
Edit: Actually, I don’t even know what that Chinese picture is about, but I’m assuming it’s a lowly peasant having to be submissive to an official to get something approved..
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When I donate at funeral, I leave quickly sometimes not even etching my name. Most times, they would chase me down and drag me up to “ua tsaug”. They say their ua tsaug and I offer my condolences(tsis txhob ua tsaug). I usually finish first and making sure the two guys next to me never having to kowtow because I would grab their arm keeping them up. It hast failed yet.
Talk about kowtowing, I had to give my new BIL and his pib laj a face towel each to wipe sweat off from kowtowing to every single relative. It was tough to watch this part but overall, their Hmong wedding was one of the smoothest wedding I’ve experienced.
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Majority of Christian funeral don't do the bow down or ritual chanting thing... they simply thank the person for their kindness and gift.