PebHmong Discussion Forum
General Category => Debate Central => Topic started by: w1s3m0n on April 26, 2017, 12:39:43 PM
-
In an effort to talk about less politics, let's debate what are some of the most important Hmong-American community issues.
In your experiences what do you think are important to Hmong community progressing?
In my experiences I believe the Hmong community can improve significantly by having more Hmong professionals in STEM. The rationales are STEM profession pays a good wage, enables innovation, and teaches sound logical & critical thinking versus tribal thinking. More Hmong in STEM would allow the Hmong community to improve against poverty, improve against superstition thinking, and enable ventures of great community impact. To do this, more parents need to encourage a STEM education. Community organization need to promote the significance of a STEM education. Somehow a STEM professional organization focus on Hmong students need to be created similar to Hispanic and Black STEM organization.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
I guess it depends on how you'd define progress. Do we consider cumulative progress or do we narrow our scope?
-
Stem? Why do Hmong people have to be in harder fields to succeed? Why can't they just enjoy success in simpler fields like their white counterparts?
-
I would rather be a failed engineer than a successful dog walker? White people are known for being Dog Walker's right?
But yeah, personally, failure is momentary. So is success. My endgame is the knowledge I've gained throughout a Lifetime. Pretty selfish, yes.
-
To some people, success is money so they will sell their grandmother if they can get a profit out of it.
-
True. And it's not to say money is unappreciated or isn't important. It doesn't drive me. It helps keep score when you're comparing, sure.
-
Stem? Why do Hmong people have to be in harder fields to succeed? Why can't they just enjoy success in simpler fields like their white counterparts?
They can and have...
-
Money is not the end all be all. With that said, when many members of the Hmong community are struggling and living in poverty, it is important that they earn more money so they can get off government support, and begin to actualize the American dream of buying their own home, taking vacation to experience the world, and so forth. Money may not be vital to life, but it is critical to experiencing life more fully.
I guess it depends on how you'd define progress. Do we consider cumulative progress or do we narrow our scope?
Progress to me is a better quality of life. In the post, I said progress is making more money, thinking more rationally, and having a greater impact to the local community.
-
In an effort to talk about less politics, let's debate what are some of the most important Hmong-American community issues.
In your experiences what do you think are important to Hmong community progressing?
In my experiences I believe the Hmong community can improve significantly by having more Hmong professionals in STEM. The rationales are STEM profession pays a good wage, enables innovation, and teaches sound logical & critical thinking versus tribal thinking. More Hmong in STEM would allow the Hmong community to improve against poverty, improve against superstition thinking, and enable ventures of great community impact. To do this, more parents need to encourage a STEM education. Community organization need to promote the significance of a STEM education. Somehow a STEM professional organization focus on Hmong students need to be created similar to Hispanic and Black STEM organization.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There are already many Hmongs in those fields. We need to teach Hmongs to be self sufficient and not depend on gov't handouts...
-
Start with hmong supporting hmong but the trust has already been broken once a group of organizer wants to capitalize n make it for profit which then gived the common hmong that im getting used feeling if they go and support.
What is happening now is the common hmong complaining and compare their value. Like why should i pay 300bux when i wouldn't even pay that much to go see trump live in person?
My viet people are more reasonable. Charge a little more to help support and making sure that you get the most value out of the event.
Go to viet town , mostly viet. Go to China town, where the viet? Viet n Chinese should be same chit but not really. Although my ignorant mind see a Nigerian n Somalian to be same same.
In other news, first african to play in the mlb today. Took him 9 years of trying and had a hit on his1st at bat. History in the making. Way to go kaydoo.
-
They can and have...
You obviously didn't understand the point of my line of questioning. Let me give you a clue. Go look up the word: Erotema.
-
You obviously didn't understand the point of my line of questioning. Let me give you a clue. Go look up the word: Erotema.
You obviously didn't understand your own false claim...
-
;D ;D again..
Thanks for trying.
-
There are already many Hmongs in those fields. We need to teach Hmongs to be self sufficient and not depend on gov't handouts...
I'm shocked by the cogency of this statement.
And I even agree with you to a lesser degree.
-
There are already many Hmongs in those fields. We need to teach Hmongs to be self sufficient and not depend on gov't handouts...
So then... what have you done to fulfill your statement "We need to teach Hmongs.."
-
By posting link to alt news sites and promoting incest.
-
;D ;D again..
Thanks for trying.
Back at you.."again". ;D
-
I don't agree.
More Hmong in STEM professionals simply mean less Hmong in poverty but has nothing to do with community. Many people in STEM field are so busy, they can't contribute to the community. Many moved out to community that have very few Hmong.
What we need is more professions that stay within the community who can contribute to the community and act as role model. Not some guy who works 60 hours a week who hardly see another Hmong person. We need more Hmong in politics to make our voice heard and gives Hmong people inspiration. We need successful Hmong business owners who can invest in their community by providing programs and scholarships to kids.
-
There are already many Hmongs in those fields. We need to teach Hmongs to be self sufficient and not depend on gov't handouts...
Many but not enough.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
What is STEM and who is funding it? If you're referring to science, technology, engineering, and mathematics the sorts... I think it's something the community and parents would support but to disregard one's identity to participate or forego STEM development would be a disservice. That idea not only offend traditional believers but believers alike.
The main problem is finding resources to educate and train people in the community. The community needs money more than some STEM program that takes time to mature.
-
I don't agree.
More Hmong in STEM professionals simply mean less Hmong in poverty but has nothing to do with community. Many people in STEM field are so busy, they can't contribute to the community. Many moved out to community that have very few Hmong.
What we need is more professions that stay within the community who can contribute to the community and act as role model. Not some guy who works 60 hours a week who hardly see another Hmong person. We need more Hmong in politics to make our voice heard and gives Hmong people inspiration. We need successful Hmong business owners who can invest in their community by providing programs and scholarships to kids.
More STEM does matter. Yes, its more hours and yes, the individual has less time to focus on the community. The result of more STEM is the increase in average income and that improves the overall value of the network/community. Remember the value of a community is not simply the average income multiply by the number of people, the community is a network and the value is described by Metcalfe's law N^2. If we get more people into STEM more people can support arts, politics, education, and business. This is why America is so focus on innovation.
I'm disappointed you don't think this way for being such a highly educated STEM professional, professor. I would like to understand more your reasoning on the a deeper level. I do acknowledge Wisconsin has a brain drain to MN. Perhaps the problem of Wisconsin isn't STEM, but more so the nature of a poor inclusion culture. less inclusive culture are more likely to be close vs. open, and we know a free and open society with decent tension with social order, balance and harmony generates massive benefits - aka democracy.
-
It doesn't matter how wealthy and successful Hmong become as individuals. If their money isn't circulated in their own communities then we remain on the bottom of the economic food chain.
Just ask yourself how many times you see a Chinese person patron Hmong places of business?
They don't. They shop at their own and they do business with their own. Until you bring something to the table they won't even bother with you.
Jews do the same in the early part of the century in America. Once they have gained group wealth they become very valuable to mainstream. Only then can they have true political power.
The Hmong have none of this because our leaders and our wannabe leaders are dumb. Too many activities and community organizers detracting the communities from keeping the eyes on the prize.
Keep the Hmong dollar in the communities and this will create a strong niche for Hmong to become successful business owners. It's great to have STEM professionals but why not develop strategies that uplift even those who don't have degrees? This is what the Chinese and Vietnamese are doing.
Promote those who are academically-inclined but also create wealth pathways for those who aren't.
It can be done.
But alas, too many dumb wannabe leaders who still think having ONE Hmong New Year is the greatest and most important issue. :idiot2: We gotta beat this one to the death.
-
We must also learn how to create jobs for ourselves. For example, the next time instead of DIY your event, hire a Hmong. Give business to someone who has a business. The more we do this the more people will feel encouraged to start their own business.
I know that we experience a lot of unprofessional ism from Hmong but we shouldn't let that stop us. Feedback should actually help business owners improve their services and competition is actually a good thing. Those who don't embrace feedback will just let their own business die while someone else rises to the top.
This is why Jews, whites, Chinese, Vietnamese, Koreans, and Indians are so much better at group economics.
Tu siab peb Hmoob are just too blind and always tend to follow blind leaders.
Like my sibling say, "you have something honest and good but they don't believe. But they believe those Hmongtebchaws frauds."
Hmong on average have low IQs like Blacks.
-
Admit it. Peb Hmoob muaj cov ruam coob tshaj cov ntse and that is why so many Hmong are overwhelmingly liberal when it comes to American politics even though we are socially conservative and in many cases fiscally conservative.
People who hate Trump don't even know why they hate him other than because blacks don't like him. But we are not blacks. Blacks hate Trump because Mexicans hate him. But blacks aren't Mexicans. It goes on and on. But when you really sit and think hard for once, Trump has not actually executed policies that negatively target or even impact Hmong.
Liberals like the Democratic Party have false unity. They are united because they share a common hatred, but not shared values. Which is why they always have to create new enemies or new grievances. If it's not one thing it's another. They follow trends and fads. They don't believe in individualism but care more about feelings. Thus, you are required to suppress your individuality if someone else might find it offensive.
Conservatives have shared values that we are willing to die for. Our principles is what allows us to be individuals and different. For example. Free Speech applies to all, even when you have diametrically opposing views. We don't believe there is such a thing as Hate Speech. Liberals are the exact opposite. They don't believe in Free Speech. They believe that if they feel offended - but only them, nobody else is allowed to feel offended - you are a threat and your speech must be stopped.
Peb Hmoob fall for false leaders. We ntshaw lus qab zib more than we love truth.
-
Hmm.
Right of Left, Democratic Liberal of Conservative Republican, it's the blind leading the blind.
As a community, we still fall prey to group mentality.
But, sitting here discussing this issue does us very little good.
-
It is a land of majority rules. Until that changes, there's no real solution to the problem of group mentality.
-
True.
I highly doubt it'll change soon. Considering Majority Rule and it's role in a Democracy.
-
I believe BelieveNme have good points about supporting your own people. When you support someone you don't necessary gain.
-
I believe BelieveNme have good points about supporting your own people. When you support someone you don't necessary gain.
North Korea is doing that.
-
North Korea is doing that.
I say support, you speak of an oppressive regime. Weird.
-
As long as Hmong remain stateless they won't make any real progress. I'd briefly tackled on subjects that relates to this topic on the cultures and history sections already.
-
:2funny:
-
As long as Hmong remain stateless they won't make any real progress. I'd briefly tackled on subjects that relates to this topic on the cultures and history sections already.
That is untrue. After the Romans exiled the Jews from their own mother land, the Jews continued to outperform the mainstream group in whichever country they resided. Segregation actually benefitted the Jews because it required them to rely only upon themselves.
Segregation also benefitted black businesses.
-
That is untrue. After the Romans exiled the Jews from their own mother land, the Jews continued to outperform the mainstream group in whichever country they resided. Segregation actually benefitted the Jews because it required them to rely only upon themselves.
Segregation also benefitted black businesses.
Then perhaps you can elaborate why Hmong people overall still suffers from poverty and falls short of progressivenes s compares to any people
excluded from the stateless category? Say compare them to Chinese, Jap or Korean etc.
-
I believe BelieveNme have good points about supporting your own people. When you support someone you don't necessary gain.
While she speaks a good game at times, she doesn't see her own follies. Like she's a Christian (by definition is anti hmong beliefs) and supports the status quo (western christian domination)... What she should be doing is support the hmong way of life so hmong culture, hmong interests, hmong integrity of being survive and thrive. Instead she jumps into the other camp to undermine the hmong ways, yet talk of "hmong should support hmong."
-
As long as Hmong remain stateless they won't make any real progress. I'd briefly tackled on subjects that relates to this topic on the cultures and history sections already.
"real progress" is open to interpretation .
Tabsis yuav kom hmoob sawv sibluag xwbpwg nrog xwbpwg hauv ntiajteb ces hmoob yeej yuav tsum khwv kom tau tebchaws. Or else when people ask a hmong,"what country or where are you from," it always become awkward and uncomfortable, like a child or person who hasn't found his own roof to live in yet.
-
How is Christian anti-hmong? What you consider Hmong culture may not be what another person considers Hmong culture. Same with interests, integrity, etc. You want her to support Hmong "stuff." What is that stuff? Using vague and subjective stuff helps nobody. BnM might even say that's the problem with Hmong people, talk big. sound smart. but at the end of the day, uses terms that have no weight to them.
You just haven't reached a certain baseline of knowledge yet that's why certain self-evident statements are lost on you... Like that of Christianity being anti-Hmong beliefs. Like really you don't see this as apparent? And if you understand that then you will know this affects Hmong integrity of being (the essence of what defines hmong). Do a bit of thinking, and research if you have to, before replying.
-
"real progress" is open to interpretation .
Tabsis yuav kom hmoob sawv sibluag xwbpwg nrog xwbpwg hauv ntiajteb ces hmoob yeej yuav tsum khwv kom tau tebchaws. Or else when people ask a hmong,"what country or where are you from," it always become awkward and uncomfortable, like a child or person who hasn't found his own roof to live in yet.
Only tebchaws xwb thiaj yuav muab tau ovpotunity rau Hmoob uas lawv tsis tau muaj dua to make real progress.
-
I say support, you speak of an oppressive regime. Weird.
That oppressive regime was doing what bnm was saying. Keeping to themselves.
-
Then perhaps you can elaborate why Hmong people overall still suffers from poverty and falls short of progressivenes s compares to any people
excluded from the stateless category? Say compare them to Chinese, Jap or Korean etc.
the biggest problem hmong have is republicans. republicans aren't that smart and will never give hmong the rights they deserve. O0
-
Then perhaps you can elaborate why Hmong people overall still suffers from poverty and falls short of progressivenes s compares to any people
excluded from the stateless category? Say compare them to Chinese, Jap or Korean etc.
Because we don't produce any goods and services. Thus, not only do we not have a self-sufficient economy among ourselves, we don't have anything to trade with those outside our community. We are waiting for someone to hire us.
Damn, didn't any of you highly educated PHers take an economics class at those fancy colleges? Let me guess, you dropped macro and microeconomics to take women studies, didn't you?
-
can,
Stick to your Hmongness. You have the right to pursue a life of ua teb, popping out children, and taking care of aging inlaws. Knowing you, you don't want to step out of that or else be called white washed. All white people are evil and racist so you definitely don't want to have anything to do with their culture.
-
Is that people lack clarity... Yes, clarity. Read what I wrote earlier. That's why you got hmong self hating (calling themselves "primitive" etc), going to church (supporting other cultures to propagate), getting themselves assimilated, because they lack the clarity to see that they should be upholding the hmong way, so hmong live on.
-
But the BIGGEST OBSTACLE is that we have dumb Hmong like can who still think that the government gives us rights.
:2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny:
This is why the Hmong are still at poverty level. They are waiting for permission from a political party to be great.
:idiot2: :idiot2: :idiot2: :idiot2: :idiot2: :idiot2: :idiot2: :idiot2: :idiot2: :idiot2:
can,
Be very super specific in stating which policy prohibits Hmong people from getting an education, a job, or creating jobs, goods, and services?