PebHmong Discussion Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dok_Champa on October 09, 2018, 02:15:07 PM
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I'm not talking about the Hmong leaders in the mainstream community but the ones for the Hmong community like the 18 clans, leaders of so and so hmong organization, etc..
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Leaders??? Bunch of BS to me......since you ask.
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Why you think that Mechanic?
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Who are the "Hmong leaders" today? Honestly, I don't even know who they are...
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Why you think that Mechanic?
just cause I came across some that is just plain annoying af. so I don't really care about them.
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Who are the "Hmong leaders" today? Honestly, I don't even know who they are...
Well, maybe you lost touch w/ your hmong community, you think? Anyway, you find them where Hmong people are found. In WI and MN, we have the leaders of the 18 clan, leaders from a specific hmong serving organizations, etc.. Oversea, we have the Hmong Montagnard Nhia Vang and that white guy..something like that.
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Well, maybe you lost touch w/ your hmong community, you think? Anyway, you find them where Hmong people are found. In WI and MN, we have the leaders of the 18 clan, leaders from a specific hmong serving organizations, etc.. Oversea, we have the Hmong Montagnard Nhia Vang and that white guy..something like that.
I live in CA with the highest Hmong population in the U.S. and I don't know who they are (if there's any). If you're talking about individual "clan" leaders or those working at organizations like "Lao Family" or those running Hmong International New Year then no, I don't considered them leaders...Defi nitely not my leader anyways...
And never heard of that Nhia Vang until now and no, I don't considered him a leader for all or the majority of Hmong either...
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Our Hmong leaders today are the greatest they have ever been and are improving at every opportunity. Now that we especially have access to modern management and leadership trainings, our leaders continue to be one of the greatest possible at this stage in our history.
I look forward to working with some again soon.
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Our Hmong leaders today are the greatest they have ever been and are improving at every opportunity. Now that we especially have access to modern management and leadership trainings, our leaders continue to be one of the greatest possible at this stage in our history.
I look forward to working with some again soon.
Since you've worked with them before, what are the changes? Improvements from the past ones?
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I just don't have a lot of hope for Hmong leaders because I've been to too many parties and all I see are them drinking like there's no tomorrow.
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I just don't have a lot of hope for Hmong leaders because I've been to too many parties and all I see are them drinking like there's no tomorrow.
exactly.
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exactly.
Don't take my word for it because i'm not a fan of heavy drinking so my opinion is biased, out of frustration, out of wanting to see change, etc..
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I'm here! ;D
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Don't take my word for it because i'm not a fan of heavy drinking so my opinion is biased, out of frustration, out of wanting to see change, etc..
I didn't mean it like that. What I mean is that I witnessed that too. They'll fine any excuse to drink. Promotion, oh lets drink. Leaders birthday, oh lets drink. Recovery, oh lets drink. Change of seasons, oh lets drink.....pret ty soon, you drink, I drink. I dance with you wife, you dance with my wife. F-that.
Look, I'm all for good leaders that can actually help not just the Hmong communities but communities in general. But until then, BS.
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Yes, I can never be a Hmong leader because I don't drink. ;D
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They've allowed women to have more rights. They are more on time now. Many are advocating against drinking and abuses.
Since you've worked with them before, what are the changes? Improvements from the past ones?
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I'm not talking about the Hmong leaders in the mainstream community but the ones for the Hmong community like the 18 clans, leaders of so and so hmong organization, etc..
There are two camps/definition when it comes to "hmoob Leaders" yog cov zoo licas? Here's what I know. Yog koj nrog cov neeg laus tham, lawv hais tias hmoob leaders yog cov paub txog hmoob kab liag kev cai zoo zoo. Cov no mas yog hmoob cov "LEADERS" tag nawb. Vim lawv paub txog Hmoob culture zoo heev, lawv thiaj yuav PAB TAU HMOOB??? NOW if you ask people like me and those of my generation and younger....The ir perception of "hmoob Leaders" will be different. Different in the perception that in order to be considered a "leader" This individual MUST be someone who had graduated from some form of HIGHER POST-SECONDARY education. He/she MUST be someone who is well versed in the Hmong community and the mainstream community in order to be considered worthy of being a "Hmong leader". When you have two groups of people with conflicting perception of what a Hmong leader should be, we will have issue.
MORE LATER...
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Ok. That's your opinion as requested by Dok.
a leader is naturally born and made...no voting system or self proclaiming... haha
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Here is my opinion on Hmong Leaders and I would never want to do such a thankless job...I admire their noble ambitions and what they are trying to do. I believe they do a good job advocating for Hmong interest with the government to support Hmong/Asian causes. I believe they do a good job in organizing traditions and rituals such as new year, etc... I believe they do a decent job in advocating and helping elders adapt. What Hmong leaders cannot do because they don't have the resources are:
1) They cannot close the achievement gap because they don't understand the social science behind why Hmong kids are failing to catch up with their Asian peers.
2) They cannot close the equity gap because they don't understand the socio-economics conditions and they do not have the means to close the equity gap.
3) They cannot help entrepreneurs grow because they don't understand business management.
In order for the 18 clans to change, they need to change leadership. The change in leadership will cause a paradigm shift in the mindset, thinking, etc... and then the people will shift. What this means is business leaders and educational leaders in the Hmong community should step up, but most of them want none of the political or leadership burden.
NOTE: Having a PhD does not make you a leader... It just means you work really hard to study a specific subject and you may be a subject matter expert. Hmong people often confuse expert with leadership. Leadership by definition is a servant who helps cause change in the system. So pretty much anyone who dares to lead and be put under a microscope can become a leader.
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I know a few men that tries to be a leader........ .but can't even lead his household.
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There are two camps/definition when it comes to "hmoob Leaders" yog cov zoo licas? Here's what I know. Yog koj nrog cov neeg laus tham, lawv hais tias hmoob leaders yog cov paub txog hmoob kab liag kev cai zoo zoo. Cov no mas yog hmoob cov "LEADERS" tag nawb. Vim lawv paub txog Hmoob culture zoo heev, lawv thiaj yuav PAB TAU HMOOB??? NOW if you ask people like me and those of my generation and younger....The ir perception of "hmoob Leaders" will be different. Different in the perception that in order to be considered a "leader" This individual MUST be someone who had graduated from some form of HIGHER POST-SECONDARY education. He/she MUST be someone who is well versed in the Hmong community and the mainstream community in order to be considered worthy of being a "Hmong leader". When you have two groups of people with conflicting perception of what a Hmong leader should be, we will have issue.
MORE LATER...
Ok, so in young people's mind, someone educated and well verse in the Hmong community and culture. To me, what's important is someone w/a passion, a love for the Hmong people is the # 1 criteria and the other is wisdom/smart - knowing where to get/find resources to get the job done. General Vang Pao has met both criteria. Here is my opinion on Hmong Leaders and I would never want to do such a thankless job...I admire their noble ambitions and what they are trying to do. I believe they do a good job advocating for Hmong interest with the government to support Hmong/Asian causes. I believe they do a good job in organizing traditions and rituals such as new year, etc... I believe they do a decent job in advocating and helping elders adapt. What Hmong leaders cannot do because they don't have the resources are:
1) They cannot close the achievement gap because they don't understand the social science behind why Hmong kids are failing to catch up with their Asian peers.
2) They cannot close the equity gap because they don't understand the socio-economics conditions and they do not have the means to close the equity gap.
3) They cannot help entrepreneurs grow because they don't understand business management.
In order for the 18 clans to change, they need to change leadership. The change in leadership will cause a paradigm shift in the mindset, thinking, etc... and then the people will shift. What this means is business leaders and educational leaders in the Hmong community should step up, but most of them want none of the political or leadership burden.
NOTE: Having a PhD does not make you a leader... It just means you work really hard to study a specific subject and you may be a subject matter expert. Hmong people often confuse expert with leadership. Leadership by definition is a servant who helps cause change in the system. So pretty much anyone who dares to lead and be put under a microscope can become a leader.
It's hard to do those items in bold when the hmong leaders, i.e from the 18 clan, are doing their job voluntarily w/o financial supports from the gov't or people to provide direct services. But they can support and collaborate w/ social agencies/non-profit groups that already provided those services. I think this is the route to go UNLESS they get funding which means they have to registered as a non-profit group and request for funding/grants/donations to run their programs, etc..
You bring up very good points.
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That aside. The better question to ask. Do we need Hmong leaders? What purpose do they serve? So what do they actually do to help out the community? Host and run the Hmong New Years? That doesn't benefit the community too much .Yes it brings people together, but being Hmong and enjoying it as a festival tend to hide from all the nonsense, greed, drama, that it produces.
As I mentioned earlier, to be a leader, first and most important criteria you've got to have a love for your own people, a genuine desire to serve your people and when this foundation is in your heart and mind, no greed and less drama.
It's the same question I once asked the local Hmong student Organization. What benefit is it to be a part of your organization? A place for students to gather. Yea, that's great. But what is the purpose? Nothing really, other than bonding and an easier place to meet people. There is nothing about teaching leadership, college survival, support system, giving back to the community, co-hosting events with other organizations. - and a sidenote, for a Hmong student organization, most of them cannot speak, read or write Hmong and are disrespectful students. It's nothing more than just a place for students to kick back and goof off.
Students sometimes don't know the value of a student org but their club advisors should be able to point them in the right direction.
I agree w/ you..women need to sit at the table because they have alot to contribute.
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DOK....koj puas tau MOB HLWB txaus? HAHA....yuav ua HMOOB ib tug thawm coj mas tsis yoojyim kiag nawb. Kawg yawg hlob VP twb hlub Hmoob kawg, tseem muaj ib cov neeg siab phem heev rau nws. Nes hnub nim no lawv tseem muaj ib cov neeg CEM yawg hlob kawg li thiab. Kuv cia li txaj muag rau Hmoon li lawm.
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They are just another person working a job to pay the bills, nothing more.
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DOK....koj puas tau MOB HLWB txaus? HAHA....yuav ua HMOOB ib tug thawm coj mas tsis yoojyim kiag nawb. Kawg yawg hlob VP twb hlub Hmoob kawg, tseem muaj ib cov neeg siab phem heev rau nws. Nes hnub nim no lawv tseem muaj ib cov neeg CEM yawg hlob kawg li thiab. Kuv cia li txaj muag rau Hmoon li lawm.
Ua haujlwm rau hmoob yeej mob hlwb vim hmoob tsis kawm ces tsis paub thiaj lam cem tus ub tus no tabsis cov paub lawv understand kawg. Ua tus coj yuav tau understand ua siab ntev...mob hlwb npaum cas los ua siab ntev. Muaj tus cem los yeej muaj tus txawb. AND tej niag haujlwm ua tus coj yog volunteer xwb os... Yog tseem muaj tus xav ua tus coj, sawvdaws yuav tau UA TSAUG vim ntau leej ntau tus tsis xav volunteer lawv lub time and $$.
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Ok, so in young people's mind, someone educated and well verse in the Hmong community and culture. To me, what's important is someone w/a passion, a love for the Hmong people is the # 1 criteria and the other is wisdom/smart - knowing where to get/find resources to get the job done. General Vang Pao has met both criteria.
GVP was only effective in an authoritarian society. Once in America where people have freedom and choice, GVP could not influence effectively and his leadership diminished. His influence revived within the Hmong community after the FBI went after him.
It's hard to do those items in bold when the hmong leaders, i.e from the 18 clan, are doing their job voluntarily w/o financial supports from the gov't or people to provide direct services. But they can support and collaborate w/ social agencies/non-profit groups that already provided those services. I think this is the route to go UNLESS they get funding which means they have to registered as a non-profit group and request for funding/grants/donations to run their programs, etc..
You bring up very good points.
Don't take my writing seriously because I'm just sharing my thoughts with the community here. These are the 3 topics that I think will transform the Hmong community, and yes, I understand it's incredibly hard and it's something that needs more discussion. Most of the time people talk about bride price, traditions, conservation of culture and ritual, etc... What we need to understand is time changes people, and rituals and tradition will change to embrace the change because the next generation those old values will diminish, and the next it will diminish more until it's no longer practice.
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I have no issues with those involved in 18 Xeem and such. It seems to work for the older generation. And trust me, those younger people who think they're so tough and smart become weak and dumb when they find themselves in a bind.
Who else is there to clean up after their mess and handle their crap but their clan AND 18 Xeem in some cases.
Marriage, funeral, and hais plaub -----> I have never seen these same smart mouth youngens take the lead. They only know how to drink beer with their useless buddies.
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They are full of themselves, everyone of them only want to make a name for themselves by changing/adding customs that not all people want to accept. You can say that they're dysfunctional, very much like elected officials in DC.
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How are the leaders? Well.. Not great. Maybe you can point out some improvements, but at the same time there are dozens more flaws.
We already have enough talk about the whole New Year fiasco so no real reason to rehash that.
Everything still runs on greed. There's having a business mindset and wanting to make money. We all need money. But greed is their main thing. You can still make money meanwhile doing something great. But with Hmong people, it's, "what's the easiest and cheapest way to make money now" aka get rick quick schemes.
A great leader needs to also be a great follower. Can't say that there are many Hmong people who can follow, ego too big for their own good.
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I had a talk with a Hmong student about a week ago regarding this topic. He said he was invited to go to some Hmong presentation/discussion (something) where there will be several Hmong scholars coming together as a panel to discuss the Hmong community and how we can improve it. He said it's being led by a Hmong guy who has a PHD or something like that.
I told him my exact thoughts about the community. Thinking too small. get rich quick schemes. catering to only Hmong people. Lack of resources and connections. He asked why I wouldn't go and talk. I told him it seemed pointless. I asked if he knew the people who were on the panel or will be talking. Not surprisingly they were reported to be all Hmong men. And I explained to him that, that is the problem and why I won't be going. The people talking should be a group of qualified leaders who have a goal or dream to want to support Hmong people. Maybe these individuals do, but at the same time, we won't have much growth if we are plagued with the same issue as before which is not letting Women get a seat at the table. Today, there are most likely more Hmong women than Hmong men who go onto a higher level of education and get the degrees. And there are plenty who are active in the Hmong community beit doctors or whatnot. So if Hmong women are not a part of this panel, I'd be interested in knowing why. If it's, no one responded, then well, who did they ask and why didn't they respond or why can't they make it?
Conversation basically died there. But IMO that should be a major topic if they want to begin with talking about the Hmong community. Higher Education. Why do we have a piss poor graduation rate? Why are there more Hmong women than men graduating from college these days? Education might not be the most important thing out there, but in America, it plays a great deal.
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That aside. The better question to ask. Do we need Hmong leaders? What purpose do they serve? So what do they actually do to help out the community? Host and run the Hmong New Years? That doesn't benefit the community too much .Yes it brings people together, but being Hmong and enjoying it as a festival tend to hide from all the nonsense, greed, drama, that it produces.
It's the same question I once asked the local Hmong student Organization. What benefit is it to be a part of your organization? A place for students to gather. Yea, that's great. But what is the purpose? Nothing really, other than bonding and an easier place to meet people. There is nothing about teaching leadership, college survival, support system, giving back to the community, co-hosting events with other organizations. - and a sidenote, for a Hmong student organization, most of them cannot speak, read or write Hmong and are disrespectful students. It's nothing more than just a place for students to kick back and goof off.
tidbit. there's actually 2 local Hmong organizations, and from what I saw, they barely engage together. One is actually one I can get behind because they have a major event they host every year where they provide free health screenings (vision, hearing, blood pressure, etc.) and they also do it at the local Hmong New Year. This kind of organization is a step in the right direction because it actually shows how it benefits the community, not just Hmong but the community as a whole.
You brought up a good point and also answered it. Why are there no women? One possible explanation is what you said. No women are willing to attend.
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You brought up a good point and also answered it. Why are there no women? One possible explanation is what you said. No women are willing to attend.
NO way... Honestly, women are not well accepted with the traditional Hmong Leadership circles. It is why many highly capable Hmong Woman Leader lead outside the traditional leadership circles and into the nonprofit and for profit. I think women have a lot of ideas to add just like men.
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A lot of women don't attend because they simply don't want to.
Plus, their ideas for improving and strengthening Hmong communities may focus on other aspects of Hmong life.
I don't see it necessary to force a collaboration when it's obvious that neither are ready to work together due to different priorities.
Hmong women also understand about personal space. Men need their space just as much as Hmong women need their space.
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I could go on about this topic but let me just put this out there.
The Hmong are not progressing as fast because we simply do not apply ourselves and that kind of mentality gets passed down to our American-born children.
We do not have a competitive spirit and many are either too complacent or too eager to accept the Liberal narrative where our shortcomings are easily blamed on phantom ideas like racism, income inequality and so on. Too many self-proclaimed leaders push victimhood mentality. We need to have a victor mentality.
The Chinese do not see themselves as victims, ever. They view others as competition and thus they mobilize to outcompete the other teams.
The East Indians also do not let charges of racism stop them. They fully understand the importance of taking advantage of opportunities rather than squandering them. This can be said about the Vietnamese.
The Jews use victimhood to their advantage. Because of anti-semitism, they have actually made their communities super wealthy. If a doctor discriminates against you, you might as well become a doctor. If an accountant won't do your taxes, you might as well become an accountant. Get my drift? If Hollywood doesn't hire you, you might as well become a director, playwright, actor, and have your own movie studio. Now you run Hollywood.
What are the Hmong doing to overcome their barriers other than expect government to rescue them? Are we implementing our own money lending practices to help establish small businesses? Do we hire our own? Do we support our businesses? And here is a big question?
What have we done to change our own personal choices?
Still marrying young? Still having a lot of kids before you can financially support them? Still choosing to be with a directionless partner?
The list of bad personal choices goes on and on.
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First of all, I would do away with victimhood mentality and outrage culture.
That nonsense has been destroying black-Americans for centuries. It's just another tactic white slaveowners used on slaves and now the Democratic Party does the same to minorities.
If you're too preoccupied with baseless racism then you're not focused on competing. Racism becomes a crutch for you to pass blame whenever you fail. And then you stop trying because what's the point when you believe racism stops you or that the wealthy 1% stops you?
When NFL football players go for tryouts, are they worried about the other guy's skin color? Are they cry babying about whether or not they trained in the best facility?
No.
Because it doesn't mean s.hit.
If you don't perform on the field then you're done. At the end of the day, the team owner is not going to cut you slack and say, "well that guy runs slower because he's from the hood. It's okay that he runs slower. Let's give him a break."
Turn your weaknesses into your strengths. If the other guy trains in a better facility, what are you going to do to even the playing field? Stop worrying about him, worry about yourself.
No excuses.
Successful people push through.
Look at Oprah Winfrey. While every women complained about being rejected for their skin color, their weight, their poor background, their gender, etc....Oprah Winfrey was every one of those things.
Oprah came from a single parent home. She was from the hood. She even got pregnant at 14 from a rape. She battled weight issues all her life. She's black. Yet, she's the wealthiest self-made gazillionaire in the world.
When producers weren't featuring shows that she wanted to watch, THE WOMAN CREATED HER OWN NETWORK.
Oprah does not fight to be part of a man's world. Oprah be in her own universe.
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Secondly, follow the model of highly successful groups.
Why are the Hmong trying to be activists like blacks? Why do some Hmong people think we can relate to First Nations People?
Blacks use slavery as a crutch. They use that to beat whites over the head with. All the nonsense that we are experiencing right now in the political arena is because of white guilt. The best they can do for blacks is to leave black alone. No other minority group in America has had so much attention from whites than blacks, whether it was love or hate. Just leave black people alone!
You should listen to what Frederick Douglas had to say about that. A modern person parroting the same sentiments is Shelby Steele.
"White liberals, just leave black people alone!"
First Nations will always have reasons for special treatment. They were here before the settlers. And yet, once left to their own communities to dictate they are not doing so well.
The Hmong do not have slavery as a crutch. Blacks were brought against their will, we came here by choice. If at any time any Hmong person claims this country is too racist, he/she can leave. Go back the way they came. We are not First Nations where we were here before the settlers and can use that as a crutch.
Re-emphasize the fact that America is the true ally of the Hmong people. Never before has it been heavily encouraged and promoted for the Hmong to succeed. DO NOT SQUANDER AWAY SUCH OPPORTUNITIES that others have died for and are trying to steal their way in.
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NO way... Honestly, women are not well accepted with the traditional Hmong Leadership circles. It is why many highly capable Hmong Woman Leader lead outside the traditional leadership circles and into the nonprofit and for profit. I think women have a lot of ideas to add just like men.
So what you are basically saying is, no women are willing to attend.